Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby Hockey Widow » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:32 pm

I think there were certainly windows where MG could have made different moves. For instance, trade Luongo for what he could get before the lock out. Who knows what was really on the table. If it was the same thing they traded for Bernier I doubt very many would have been happy. It was rumoured MG was offered Schenn straight up at the draft last year. Don't know if it was true but if it was well that certainly would have been a good return as it turns out.

Yes, if he knew he was going to have to trade CS then he should have handled it differently, if he could have. We really have no idea what transpired. But I do think it is safe to argue MG had windows and did not recognize they were closing. Perhaps his lack of experience as GM made him carry around his blinders a little too long. One thing I do know is that the return he would have gotten still would have caused controversy for either Luongo or CS.

It has to be remembered that he could not take cap back no matter who he moved. So while it would have been nice to get the number 9 and another player we could not take a player with much cap and expecting the number 9 and a high prospect is expecting too much for CS.

I do agree that at the trade deadline last year would have been a great time to move CS if MG thought that is what he would have to do. I just don't think he thought it would come to that. We may have had a little bidding war but I doubt it would involve a draft pick higher than we got. We don't know if ownership had vetoed a buy out for Lou, still don't know for sure if they did. Don't know if MG had that knowledge or not.

I think the safest bet is that his inexperience as a GM showed. As RD is fond of saying his player agent glasses probably impeded his ability to read other GM's and the market. In the end he had little choice left and made the best of the bad situation. I don't totally blame him for the situation, I do think circumstances changed significantly and a lot of GM's have re-capture fever. But the final analysis is that he did miss some opportunities to move Luongo. But most high priced players that are unhappy, want out and that get moved do not get the return fans think hey should. Heatley, Nash to name two, saw a lot of criticism after the deals were done.

As for CS value, ya, before the move media pundits and fans of other teams called him a glorified back up, unproven, worth pennies in a trade. Now he is the second coming. And he may just be the second coming for NJD. But other than ownership approving a buy out, in the end, I'm not sure what people expected MG to do?

As for now, well he has to keep cap back to cover off Tanev's cap and he has to keep money back for Weise arbitration because the team no longer can walk away for awards under 3.5 million. He has to be prudent and make sure he has cap room.
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby BingoTough » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:26 am

Hockey Widow wrote:I do think circumstances changed significantly and a lot of GM's have re-capture fever.


I agree, but I don't understand it.

If you're a low-cap team, recapture is awesome. He retires, you lose cap at the same rate that you benefited from it.

Imagine he has 10 years left and you circumvent say, 7 million over the next 4 years. If Lou retires with 6 years left, the $7 million recapture can be claimed over however many years, basically helping you get to the floor for years to come. This is valuable for cap floor teams! They can actually circumvent the cap in the other direction (i.e. underneath the floor). It requires an investment now, but he's a decent goalie (worth 5.3 million).

Basically, his contract should be attractive for cap-floor teams. Very attractive.

Dunno, maybe I've missed something, but I see this as a strategic asset.

On the flip side, he becomes very unattractive for cap ceiling teams because of recapture.
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby dbr » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:52 am

BingoTough wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:I do think circumstances changed significantly and a lot of GM's have re-capture fever.


I agree, but I don't understand it.

If you're a low-cap team, recapture is awesome. He retires, you lose cap at the same rate that you benefited from it.

Imagine he has 10 years left and you circumvent say, 7 million over the next 4 years. If Lou retires with 6 years left, the $7 million recapture can be claimed over however many years, basically helping you get to the floor for years to come. This is valuable for cap floor teams! They can actually circumvent the cap in the other direction (i.e. underneath the floor). It requires an investment now, but he's a decent goalie (worth 5.3 million).

Basically, his contract should be attractive for cap-floor teams. Very attractive.

Dunno, maybe I've missed something, but I see this as a strategic asset.

On the flip side, he becomes very unattractive for cap ceiling teams because of recapture.


It's a double whammy.

No cap floor team wants him now because they can't be shelling out $6.7m for a goaltender on top of the rest of their roster (which was already probably eating up most of their internal budget).

That being said, every GM has watched Gillis fail to move Luongo all year long, and the cap ceiling teams don't want to give up anything for a goaltender they might struggle just as badly to move when the time comes (yeah yeah, maybe a cap floor team wants him in 4-5 years but that's a long time and it's still no guarantee).

Maybe one of those teams would have picked up Luongo on waivers but obviously it never reached that point.
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby Island Nucklehead » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:27 am

dbr wrote:That being said, every GM has watched Gillis fail to move Luongo all year long, and the cap ceiling teams don't want to give up anything for a goaltender they might struggle just as badly to move when the time comes (yeah yeah, maybe a cap floor team wants him in 4-5 years but that's a long time and it's still no guarantee).

Maybe one of those teams would have picked up Luongo on waivers but obviously it never reached that point.


You got it. Gillis figured Luongo + 9th overall was better than Schneider. And that's if Luongo was picked up on waivers. Paying Lou to play elsewhere (buyout) would have been the most bitter pill to swallow.
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby the Dogsalmon » Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:59 pm

I got to watch Horvat play(live) 4 times this past season and we should be very happy with what he will bring us. He is a very dominant tough forward who plays both ends of the ice effectively. He hits,shoots,passes,does it all. When they announced the Schneider deal at the draft I said to my buddy I hope they draft Horvat. This is the type of player we is looking for. He is built like a bull moose as well.
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby Tciso » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:12 am

the Dogsalmon wrote:I got to watch Horvat play(live) 4 times this past season and we should be very happy with what he will bring us. He is a very dominant tough forward who plays both ends of the ice effectively. He hits,shoots,passes,does it all. When they announced the Schneider deal at the draft I said to my buddy I hope they draft Horvat. This is the type of player we is looking for. He is built like a bull moose as well.



Saw him at the Memorial Cup. He will be a great player for us in a couple of years. A Kesler replacement, and possible more.
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby the Dogsalmon » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:18 pm

Tciso wrote:
the Dogsalmon wrote:I got to watch Horvat play(live) 4 times this past season and we should be very happy with what he will bring us. He is a very dominant tough forward who plays both ends of the ice effectively. He hits,shoots,passes,does it all. When they announced the Schneider deal at the draft I said to my buddy I hope they draft Horvat. This is the type of player we is looking for. He is built like a bull moose as well.



Saw him at the Memorial Cup. He will be a great player for us in a couple of years. A Kesler replacement, and possible more.



We can build a team around Horvat. I am very surprised that players agent mike gillis didnt fuck that one up as well. He is one of the worst GM's in our team history. But even a broken clock can show the right time twice a day.
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby dbr » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:03 pm

the Dogsalmon wrote:We can build a team around Horvat. I am very surprised that players agent mike gillis didnt fuck that one up as well. He is one of the worst GM's in our team history. But even a broken clock can show the right time twice a day.


Funny, that's what I say to myself when you (make the same tired) comment on a Mike Gillis fuck up.
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby the Dogsalmon » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:01 pm

dbr wrote:
the Dogsalmon wrote:We can build a team around Horvat. I am very surprised that players agent mike gillis didnt fuck that one up as well. He is one of the worst GM's in our team history. But even a broken clock can show the right time twice a day.


Funny, that's what I say to myself when you (make the same tired) comment on a Mike Gillis fuck up.



I gave him credit for not fucking up. Thats fairly positive!
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby Rumsfeld » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:39 pm

Apparently we just drafted Sidney Crosby.

A bunch of the kids over at HFboards have annointed Horvat as our 1st line center in '15 or '16. Man, he must be something if he's going to be better than Henrik AND Kesler before his sophomore year. :roll:

I almost never go over there, but I was looking for news on Tanev and thought I'd show you guys you aren't the only homer mongoloids on the Canuck interwebz.
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby the Dogsalmon » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:16 pm

Rumsfeld wrote:Apparently we just drafted Sidney Crosby.

A bunch of the kids over at HFboards have annointed Horvat as our 1st line center in '15 or '16. Man, he must be something if he's going to be better than Henrik AND Kesler before his sophomore year. :roll:

I almost never go over there, but I was looking for news on Tanev and thought I'd show you guys you aren't the only homer mongoloids on the Canuck interwebz.




You should watch him play. He's pretty damn good.
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby Tciso » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:34 pm

Rumsfeld wrote:Apparently we just drafted Sidney Crosby.

A bunch of the kids over at HFboards have annointed Horvat as our 1st line center in '15 or '16. Man, he must be something if he's going to be better than Henrik AND Kesler before his sophomore year. :roll:

I almost never go over there, but I was looking for news on Tanev and thought I'd show you guys you aren't the only homer mongoloids on the Canuck interwebz.


3 years is a long time, rummy. Let's make a bet. You come back in 3 years if you are right and gloat.
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby Rumsfeld » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:45 pm

Tciso wrote:
Rumsfeld wrote:Apparently we just drafted Sidney Crosby.

A bunch of the kids over at HFboards have annointed Horvat as our 1st line center in '15 or '16. Man, he must be something if he's going to be better than Henrik AND Kesler before his sophomore year. :roll:

I almost never go over there, but I was looking for news on Tanev and thought I'd show you guys you aren't the only homer mongoloids on the Canuck interwebz.


3 years is a long time, rummy. Let's make a bet. You come back in 3 years if you are right and gloat.


It's two years. And the chances of Horvat making the team this year are pretty poor if we plan on developing him properly. We don't even know if he's going to skip the AHl and play next year.

So yeah, if you think Horvat is going to be the best center on our team in his second NHL season you're on crack... and I don't need to wait until 2015/16 to know that's the truth.

The kid is fucking 18 years old. You have obviously not watched the natural progression of how prospects develop and are integrated into the pros if you think what I quoted from the HF troglodytes is realistic. The kid is scoring at half the clip of the top offensive stars in JUNIOR and he's going to be better offensively than Henrik and Kesler? In the NHL????

You and dogsalmon must actually think this kid is a Sidney Crosby level talent. :lol:

I don't know what this board is smoking these days but man, please send me some.
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby Tciso » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:51 pm

Rumsfeld wrote:
Tciso wrote:
Rumsfeld wrote:Apparently we just drafted Sidney Crosby.

A bunch of the kids over at HFboards have annointed Horvat as our 1st line center in '15 or '16. Man, he must be something if he's going to be better than Henrik AND Kesler before his sophomore year. :roll:

I almost never go over there, but I was looking for news on Tanev and thought I'd show you guys you aren't the only homer mongoloids on the Canuck interwebz.


3 years is a long time, rummy. Let's make a bet. You come back in 3 years if you are right and gloat.


It's two years.


2016 - 2013 = 3. But, you missed the friendly jab I was making. The "you come back in 3 years" was predicated on you leaving :D
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby the Dogsalmon » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:55 pm

I dont recall saying he is a Sydney Crosby talent. I remember saying he is very good. Nice try though.
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