Canucks News and Notes

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Strangelove
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Post by Strangelove »

Hockey Widow wrote:Hey Doc, Article 50-50.5 in the CBA deals with this and gives examples. Example one shows what the buy out would be plus the savings the club recievd in the difference between salary and average cap. Interestingly, if the cap was higher than the salary, say the salary increases years 3-5 of the contract, then it shows the new cap after the buy out is likewise reduce to reflect that.

So the short answer is yes...
I appreciate the response, I do, but I have a different interpretation of the article in question.

I believe you're referring to an example that talks about "retirement" (rather than "buyout").

Or perhaps you're referring to the example that talks about the original team buying out the contract?

(maybe you could quote the exact wording of the example here?)

I just did some more googling and found a great debate about this subject:

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/en/v3/ext/CBA201 ... 13_CBA.pdf

They are discussing possibilities regard Ehrhoff being traded and traded-to team buying Ehrhoff out.

You'll see that Sabretooth takes the same view as I... and that eventually he wins the debate.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showt ... ?t=1592631

I don't believe this scenario could possibly play out more perfectly than Luongo in Florida + bought-out in 2018.

(as far as making perfect sense for the other team - Panthers)

I feel such a buyout would erase any potential Cap Recapture penalty for the Canucks.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Post by Hockey Widow »

Ya I was referring to the original team buy out that does talk about the potential for CRP. I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that that reasoning would apply to a subsequent team buying out. One argument I suppose I would have as the Canucks would be that I have no control over what Florida does and therefore should not suffer the CRP if they buy out.

I did see a debate on the hockey boards where someone commented that Nonis had said, subsequent to not trading for Luongo, was that he asked the league if they anticipated the CRP being applied to regular buyouts and they said yes. Thus he wanted a higher retention by the Canucks to offset any CRP they, the Leaves might have. The deal broke down as Vancouver was not willing to have retention. Keeping in mind that these conversations would have happened before the new CBA so if true would have been indicative of what the league hoped would happen.

It raises some interesting arguments. Given that the league wrote the rules and if they are deemed ambiguous or silent on the issue, the Canucks would have a good legal argument.

After re-reading article 50.9 it does seem to state that any amounts cover end under the cap recapture apply only to the team buying out. Confusing enough for me to say if Panthers buy him out we are off the hook.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Post by Rocky Dennis »

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/canu ... extension/

Apologies if this has already been posted somewhere and i missed it. Word on the street is 2 years $900K AAV. And cue the Shinkaruk vs. Granlund debate again.
What i find most interesting is the timing. Why not wait until saturday and have a much better idea what hole you are filling through this year's 1st rounder. I know its laughable, but say we happen to win first overall...does this signing mean it's one of the other centres out the door to make room? Because i think its a lock Matthews steps right in. I presume the scenarios have all been thought through. Who do you think it would be? This would certainly be the death knell for Vey in these parts. Mccann would likely start in utica or on wing at best, Sutter a shift to wing as well? Would Gaunce get bounced back to wing yet again or traded like most of the past regime's picks? Probably end up being a moot discussion in the end but there is time to kill until saturday.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Post by SKYO »

Chill rock^

You act like we got a mad center depth when clearly we don't, our center depth got so demolished with injuries and rookies we had Linden Vey getting top minutes.

We need Granlund signed and it's pocket change he's getting for a couple years, he's got the skills, got training/experience, he's ready to breakout so to speak like Baertschi styles, just needs to get on a role, confidence.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Post by BladesofSteel »

Odds are very much in favour of Vancouver landing a Finn at the draft. Granlund would help ease the transition of said Finn both on and off the ice.

It's a fair deal for both parties. Baertschi and Etem should be next on JB's RFA radar.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Post by Rocky Dennis »

SKYO wrote:Chill rock^

You act like we got a mad center depth when clearly we don't, our center depth got so demolished with injuries and rookies we had Linden Vey getting top minutes.

We need Granlund signed and it's pocket change he's getting for a couple years, he's got the skills, got training/experience, he's ready to breakout so to speak like Baertschi styles, just needs to get on a role, confidence.
I didn't realize I said or acted like anything. I'm just asking a question or two about potential moves/tweaks SHOULD the team win the 1st overall pick. Between Hank, Sutter, Bo, and Granlund, I'd say the four centre spots are spoken for next year, for better or for worse. Obviously you need depth but you have got to have somewhere to put the displaced centres, especially if we are fortunate enough to snag Matthews. A logjam at centre is nice in theory but not always practical. In other words, it's a good problem to have but still a problem you have to figure out. They didn't give Sutter that contract to permanently play out of position. Same with Granlund to a lesser extant and he has said he much prefers playing centre (sorry don't remember the source). So something has to give.
Totally agreed on term and salary. Nothing to complain about there. I dont mind granlund, although i would prefer someone bigger and meaner for 4C but you cant have it all. I also don't think shinkaruk is going to amount to much so I didn't mind the trade. I will disagree with you on Granlunds upside though. I think what you see is what you're going to get especially for the minutes and role he's going to have. Happy to be wrong though.
As for Vey, as long as he has Willy as his coach he will continue to receive gift wrapped top line minutes regardless of any factors injury or otherwise.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Post by Hockey Widow »

Never a problem having a plethora of people to play centre. Sutter can shift to wing if need be. McCann I think is Utica bound. Vey I hope is traded, if not I hope we don't qualify him. If we win the lottery and draft Matthews I still see no problem. With Granlund signed for two years at a cap of $900,000 he is easily moved if we needed to move him. But we won't need to move him.

He figures in Benning's plan for now so getting him signed is the right thing to do. Keep the asset under contract. Besides, Matthews could end up in Utica to start the season. The knock on him, if there is one, is he is still learning to play a 200' game. I think Benning has his eyes on one of the Finns anyway. Maybe he secretly hopes we draft second so he isn't known as the GM who passed on Matthews :mrgreen:

Treliving was quoted as saying Granlund did not adapt too well to wing, that he is uncomfortable there. When asked about it Granlund confirmed that but also said he'd play anywhere he is asked to.

Benning moving quickly to lock assets up at a good cap hit is a good thing. Getting them locked up to two year deals before he has to qualify them is smart. Nothing to worry about. What happens Saturday won't change the plans Benning has for his RFAs. It may however affect his decision on Burrows moving forward. Drafting in the top three pretty much means Burrows is gone, something Burrows commented on when he said his future is somewhat tied to the draft and free agency and he has to be patient to see what type of moves the club makes.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Post by dbr »

BladesofSteel wrote:Odds are very much in favour of Vancouver landing a Finn at the draft.
They are not. The odds of us picking 5th overall are higher than the combined odds of picking in the top three.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Post by Micky »

Rocky Dennis wrote:
SKYO wrote:Chill rock^

You act like we got a mad center depth when clearly we don't, our center depth got so demolished with injuries and rookies we had Linden Vey getting top minutes.

We need Granlund signed and it's pocket change he's getting for a couple years, he's got the skills, got training/experience, he's ready to breakout so to speak like Baertschi styles, just needs to get on a role, confidence.
I didn't realize I said or acted like anything. I'm just asking a question or two about potential moves/tweaks SHOULD the team win the 1st overall pick. Between Hank, Sutter, Bo, and Granlund, I'd say the four centre spots are spoken for next year, for better or for worse. Obviously you need depth but you have got to have somewhere to put the displaced centres, especially if we are fortunate enough to snag Matthews. A logjam at centre is nice in theory but not always practical. In other words, it's a good problem to have but still a problem you have to figure out. They didn't give Sutter that contract to permanently play out of position. Same with Granlund to a lesser extant and he has said he much prefers playing centre (sorry don't remember the source). So something has to give.
Totally agreed on term and salary. Nothing to complain about there. I dont mind granlund, although i would prefer someone bigger and meaner for 4C but you cant have it all. I also don't think shinkaruk is going to amount to much so I didn't mind the trade. I will disagree with you on Granlunds upside though. I think what you see is what you're going to get especially for the minutes and role he's going to have. Happy to be wrong though.
As for Vey, as long as he has Willy as his coach he will continue to receive gift wrapped top line minutes regardless of any factors injury or otherwise.
Don't worry pal, there are just a very few people around here that post as though they've had 35 years experience in hockey business.
A signing like Granlunds' just means he can keep him if need be or use him as a piece in another deal.
You might see a couple more just like that but again it could be positioning.
The fact is, we won't know everything till 2 or 3 weeks into next season as to the final roster.
But man, you got that Vey thing down! Bang-on.. 8-)
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Post by Tciso »

This is a great contract for the Canucks. If Granlund sucks, and is sent down, there is no cap hit (recapture is $950k). And, for a team re-building, and trying different pieces, no cap hit is a huge benefit.


SKYO wrote:Chill rock^

You act like we got a mad center depth when clearly we don't, our center depth got so demolished with injuries and rookies we had Linden Vey getting top minutes.

We need Granlund signed and it's pocket change he's getting for a couple years, he's got the skills, got training/experience, he's ready to breakout so to speak like Baertschi styles, just needs to get on a role, confidence.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Post by Meds »

What I just watched in a recent highlight package of Laine makes me think he's a legitimate top line wing. Much of his game reminds me of a young Jaromir Jagr.....and that's something we really need.

He could probably play on the Twins right side next year. His one-timer is very Ovechkin-like.....on net and off the ice. But his wrist shot is Naslundesque......and of course I mean pre-Moore Nazzy! He takes time and picks his spot, but his "time" is still faster than anyone currently in our top 6.

He is having much more success than Matthews did against a very similar level of playoff competition.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Post by Meds »

dbr wrote:
BladesofSteel wrote:Odds are very much in favour of Vancouver landing a Finn at the draft.
They are not. The odds of us picking 5th overall are higher than the combined odds of picking in the top three.
But that is true of every other team besides Toronto.

In fact every other team north of us has worse odds than we do.

Quit being such a doom and gloom pessimist.









No. No. You're right dbr.....sigh.....we'll pick 5th. :(
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Post by dbr »

There's no need for emoticons or any of that, it's simple math. We finished bottom 5 for the first time in nearly 20 years and it just happens to be the first year after they changed the format.. that, you can :cry: :cry: :cry: about.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Post by JMoose »

Meds wrote:What I just watched in a recent highlight package of Laine makes me think he's a legitimate top line wing. Much of his game reminds me of a young Jaromir Jagr.....and that's something we really need.

He could probably play on the Twins right side next year. His one-timer is very Ovechkin-like.....on net and off the ice. But his wrist shot is Naslundesque......and of course I mean pre-Moore Nazzy! He takes time and picks his spot, but his "time" is still faster than anyone currently in our top 6.

He is having much more success than Matthews did against a very similar level of playoff competition.
Not sure I am reading you right or not but if you are saying that you would pass on Matthews to take Laine I just don't see how you can argue for that. Intentionally missing on a player who could be a franchise centre seems like a terrible idea. I can't think of any wingers who have been franchise changing players on their own other than perhaps Jagr, St. Louis, and Ovechkin, even there an argument can be made against those guys.

Ovechkin doesn't elevate the players on his line so much as he is just an incredible one man talent who scores and his line mates get some assists or a boost in their possession numbers or plus-minus. Jagr had Lemieux, and while he is now a really good leader for a team loaded with youngsters he never elevated any team to the top prize after leaving Pittsburgh. St. Louis was amazing in Tampa and responsible for a good chunk of Stamkos' success. And I almost forgot about Patrick Kane, he actually elevates his linemates and has been a major difference maker for Chicago in the playoffs.

Contrast those players with the likes of Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman, Messier, Modano, Fedorov, Oates, Gilmour, Sakic, Crosby, Kopitar, Sedin, Toews, and now McDavid and possibly Eichel. Those guys all elevated their line mates and whoever flanked them on the wing had career years because of them.

Some of this if probably due to the fact that so much of the game runs through the centre position but it still makes for the argument that a franchise centre is the most important piece of the puzzle.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Post by Topper »

What's happening Saturday?
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
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