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Mëds wrote:
So long as those PIMs are the result of mixing it up or being overly aggressive after a puck and not from tripping, hooking, holding, and other weak defensive efforts.
Shut the fuck up, Mëds. You are out of your element here
I'm surprised by all the shock, horror and dismay being expressed over this Canucks team losing to better Western Conference teams. What were your expectations? This group has non-playoff team written all over it. No second line to speak of and very thin on D.
Let's peruse current second lines of other Western Conference teams:
Every single one of them has at least one player who is MILES better than anyone one our second line. So how are we likely to realistically stack up against these teams? I'd suggest not very well. Chicago likely has the least exciting second line on paper (Except for Pat freakin' Kane), but look at the "third" line they are currently running with: Bickell/Richards/Saad.
We DO NOT stack up against the better Western Conference teams. Period. More often that not we will lose to them this season. We will miss the playoffs, hopefully have an aggressive sell-off at the deadline (if we can find folks willing to give up picks in what is being billed as an exceptional draft) and load up at the draft again.
Next year, I hope to see us a rocking a second line of Jensen/Bonino/Shinkaruk and a third line of Matthias/Horvat/Kassian with Cassels, McCann and Virtenan still waiting in the wings. That starts to look a little better - except on D.
Groovypippin wrote:
We DO NOT stack up against the better Western Conference teams. Period. More often that not we will lose to them this season. We will miss the playoffs, hopefully have an aggressive sell-off at the deadline (if we can find folks willing to give up picks in what is being billed as an exceptional draft) and load up at the draft again.
Agree with everything Groovy, but I'm curious about your definition of "aggressive sell-off". Looking at our bottom-9 forward group, there are certainly guys I'd look to move. Higgins, Burrows, Hansen might bring back some value. Players like Matthias and Richardson are UFA in the offseason, and likely won't get much interest (if anything) from a contender. Our D is so thin right now, and likely will be for the next couple seasons, I don't see how we can afford to move anyone. There's also the NTC factor.
If I'm Vancouver, I look to move Burrows (2nd rounder+mid prospect), Higgins (3rd rounder), Hansen (3rd/4th rounder) and, assuming Markstrom keeps playing strong in Utica, Lack (2nd rounder).
There's been a lot of Canucks drafting discussion lately so I'll leave this here from Rhys Jessop:
VAN drafted Taylor Ellington 33rd overall in 2007. Let's assume that VAN must take a CHL D here. The draft yr point totals of...
...the next 5 CHL D taken were as follows: 21, 32, 56, 21, 40. Ellington had 13.
Let's say that you go "screw it, let's draft the defenseman with 56 points because he's obviously the best guy"
Congratulations. You just drafted P.K. Subban 33rd overall in 2007 instead of Taylor Ellington.
P.K. Subban had more goals in his draft year than Taylor Ellington had points. Subban played a major role on his team, Ellington was a #5 D
I'll concede that even if the obvious choice wasn't P.K. Subban, the obvious choice definitely was "not Taylor Ellington"
I get the feeling like the Canucks scouts are trying to look like the smartest guys in the room by making these off the board picks when in reality the proof in the results are there for all to see.
Benjo wrote:There's been a lot of Canucks drafting discussion lately so I'll leave this here from Rhys Jessop:
VAN drafted Taylor Ellington 33rd overall in 2007. Let's assume that VAN must take a CHL D here. The draft yr point totals of...
...the next 5 CHL D taken were as follows: 21, 32, 56, 21, 40. Ellington had 13.
Let's say that you go "screw it, let's draft the defenseman with 56 points because he's obviously the best guy"
Congratulations. You just drafted P.K. Subban 33rd overall in 2007 instead of Taylor Ellington.
P.K. Subban had more goals in his draft year than Taylor Ellington had points. Subban played a major role on his team, Ellington was a #5 D
I'll concede that even if the obvious choice wasn't P.K. Subban, the obvious choice definitely was "not Taylor Ellington"
I get the feeling like the Canucks scouts are trying to look like the smartest guys in the room by making these off the board picks when in reality the proof in the results are there for all to see.
I get the feeling that the Canucks scouts don't actually go and watch some of these players play.
It's like they see what some of the talking heads are saying about prospects and rankings, and then go watch everyone else.....because guys like Bobby Mac don't have a clue what they're talking about.
I didn't even realize that we had a shot at getting PK in the 3rd round.....not that he would ever have turned into the player his is today here. Vigneault and Gillis would have neutered him.
And just to throw more salt in the 2nd round wounds Severson has 2 more points tonight who we could have also drafted instead of Alex "the great" Mallet.
You gotta love the Red WingsWatching their game tonight, their lineup is filled with kids and rookies, they've drafted. Makes me wonder why we continually cook our kids in the minors. Seriously, why is Jensen not up here after his great showing last season?
“Tyler Myers is my guy... I was taking to Scotty Bowman last night and he was bringing up his name, and saying he’s a big guy and big guy need big minutes to play, he is playing great for ya… and I agree with him… He’s been exceptional” - Bruce Boudreau
Groovypippin wrote:
We DO NOT stack up against the better Western Conference teams. Period. More often that not we will lose to them this season. We will miss the playoffs, hopefully have an aggressive sell-off at the deadline (if we can find folks willing to give up picks in what is being billed as an exceptional draft) and load up at the draft again.
Agree with everything Groovy, but I'm curious about your definition of "aggressive sell-off". Looking at our bottom-9 forward group, there are certainly guys I'd look to move. Higgins, Burrows, Hansen might bring back some value. Players like Matthias and Richardson are UFA in the offseason, and likely won't get much interest (if anything) from a contender. Our D is so thin right now, and likely will be for the next couple seasons, I don't see how we can afford to move anyone. There's also the NTC factor.
If I'm Vancouver, I look to move Burrows (2nd rounder+mid prospect), Higgins (3rd rounder), Hansen (3rd/4th rounder) and, assuming Markstrom keeps playing strong in Utica, Lack (2nd rounder).
That's inline with my thinking, although I see the Canucks keeping lack and moving Markstrom. The most important outcome (besides scoring a few picks) is the opening up of roster spots.
Benjo wrote:And just to throw more salt in the 2nd round wounds Severson has 2 more points tonight who we could have also drafted instead of Alex "the great" Mallet.
We just need a Norris trophy dman somehow someway, then we can let all our youth blossom in front of em, also having a solid vet D-corps will cover the youngsters mistakes.
Virtanen, Shinkaruk, Jensen, Cassels, Horvat, McCann maybe Fox if his sole responsibility is to just score goals.
Corrado, Hutton, Subban, Demko for the future defensive scheme.
Vey is the little bro with hockey skills.
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imo it's pretty rare to have such a dominant #1 line right now with the Sedins-Vrb, and it's all going to waste if JB doesn't capitalize on this, he of all people should know having at least one superior dman will lead to many superior ice advantages and situational attack schemes.
Can the Canucks just win a Cup within the next 5 years.
SKYO wrote:We just need a Norris trophy dman somehow someway, then we can let all our youth blossom in front of em, also having a solid vet D-corps will cover the youngsters mistakes.
Virtanen, Shinkaruk, Jensen, Cassels, Horvat, McCann maybe Fox if his sole responsibility is to just score goals.
Corrado, Hutton, Subban, Demko for the future defensive scheme.
Vey is the little bro with hockey skills.
---
imo it's pretty rare to have such a dominant #1 line right now with the Sedins-Vrb, and it's all going to waste if JB doesn't capitalize on this, he of all people should know having at least one superior dman will lead to many superior ice advantages and situational attack schemes.
I'm sure JB knows this all too well. It's just really hard to acquire said defenseman. How many are there in the league? 10? How many teams are willing to trade one?
Karlsson (though weak defensively)
Weber
Subban
Chara (old and now injured)
Doughty
Keith
Suter
Pietrangelo
Hedman (certainly on the rise)
