Canucks Acquire David Booth & Parts + Various Rumours

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Re: Canucks Acquire David Booth & Parts + Various Rumours

Postby CFP! » Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:00 pm

Jovocop wrote:
dhabums wrote:
CFP! wrote:Weber is a pipe dream at best ATM. I dont know how GMMG explains how he resigns Weber for a Sedin+Burrows contract to the leaders of the team who DID take discounts.


He could always say "I want to win the effing Cup!". He doesn't actually need to explain a god damned thing. Players sign deals they want to sign. It is that simple.


If it is that simple, you could have been the GM... When the Sedins signed the contract just before they became UFAs, MG must have presented his plan to the Sedins. Is that not part of the negotiation to get them at hometown discount?? Once they signed, you want to tell them to "I don't need to explain a god damned thing"... I am sure you will be well-liked as a GM...


Exactly.

Gillis has created something, the Twins have followed and thus Kesler and hopefully Edler.

If anyone's cap hit is more than the Twins or Luongo I'd say it would be only for one year. And at the end of the day, if your not worth your money you get bitch slapped by the twins.
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Re: Canucks Acquire David Booth & Parts + Various Rumours

Postby Hockey Widow » Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:31 am

I don't think too many players would get bent out of shape if someone else came to the team and earned top dollar if that player was a premier player and it helped them win a cup. These players make good coin and they know it. They are set for life and they know it. They want to win. If Weber were to come here and earn upper 6+ low 7 and it helped us win you would not find one player complaining. It might be different down the road if MG paid that type of money to someone who did not deserve it. Like J'Bow for example. At the time I remember several players saying he was not what they needed and certainly not at the money he was rumoured to be going to command. Some players said the same about Hamhuis as well, for the 6 million figure that was being thrown around. I doubt anyone is upset about Hamhuis earning what he does and I doubt anyone would be upset if we landed Weber for what he is worth.

We have one cap circumvention contract and we won't get away with another so if we have any hopes/plans to land Weber it will cost. Ideally I would love to wait and grab him when he is UFA just so we don;t have to give up any assets but if by some miracle he was put on the market he is the type of player I would hope MG would part with the assets to land. And if he did you know he could sign him long term and you know that would mean the end of Ballard :D
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Re: Canucks Acquire David Booth & Parts + Various Rumours

Postby dhabums » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:06 am

Jovocop wrote:
dhabums wrote:
CFP! wrote:Weber is a pipe dream at best ATM. I dont know how GMMG explains how he resigns Weber for a Sedin+Burrows contract to the leaders of the team who DID take discounts.


He could always say "I want to win the effing Cup!". He doesn't actually need to explain a god damned thing. Players sign deals they want to sign. It is that simple.


If it is that simple, you could have been the GM... When the Sedins signed the contract just before they became UFAs, MG must have presented his plan to the Sedins. Is that not part of the negotiation to get them at hometown discount?? Once they signed, you want to tell them to "I don't need to explain a god damned thing"... I am sure you will be well-liked as a GM...


I guess if you think part of his plan was refusing to go after top notch players until the Sedins' deals expired so he could spare them the agony of being 2nd, then sure. "Hi Hank, Hi Dan. $6.1M per, 5 years and we will not pay anyone more no matter how good they are." (BUT we will trade for overpaid guys that blow the system to hell, haha)

The Sedins and everyone else fully understand that things change. If Weber was actually there for the taking, Mike Gillis doesn't need to poll his players on what wouldn't hurt their feelings money wise and term wise. I think this team would like to be the best they can possibly be. Now that's just my opinion and it could be wrong.
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Re: Canucks Acquire David Booth & Parts + Various Rumours

Postby coco_canuck » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:11 am

dhabums wrote:The Sedins and everyone else fully understand that things change. If Weber was actually there for the taking, Mike Gillis doesn't need to poll his players on what wouldn't hurt their feelings money wise and term wise. I think this team would like to be the best they can possibly be. Now that's just my opinion and it could be wrong.


Yup.

I heard a recent clip of Gillis explaining that he didn't think it was right to pay Ehrhoff what was needed to get a deal done because it would have been unfair to other guys on the team who took a pay cut. But there's a difference between getting your own players to sign under market value and signing a new player from another team, especially if said player is one of the best in the game.

What anyone gets paid is relative to the situation and their talent level.

That's not to say the Canucks should pay Weber what he would make elsewhere, but if he happens to be the team's highest paid player if he signed here, then so be it, and I doubt any of the players will mind too much as long as it's a reasonable deal.
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Re: Canucks Acquire David Booth & Parts + Various Rumours

Postby Rumsfeld » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:53 am

I'd say there are 29 other organizations who would be fine with having Weber on their team for 7 million a season. The guy is young, huge, entering his prime, a leader, fantastic at both ends of the ice, and can play thirty minutes a night. He is a franchise player.

The salary cap has gone up every season since the lockout, which makes the Sedins' salaries somewhat irrelevant to what the most coveted free agent on the market should receive. As for Edler, he will be worth what he's worth when he becomes a FA regardless of Weber's salary. If anything, Weber at seven million would make Edler's asking price lower; it would be hard for Edler to expect much north of five million a season when the best blueliner in the game is on your team making seven. Edler is turning into a terrific player but he will never be a Shea Weber.

I'm sure the star players on this team would be thrilled to have a player like that on the back end making their lives easier and protecting our often-fragile goaltender, regardless of what Weber earns a season. This team wants to win now and I think the players understand how the free agent market works. There are many players who you wouldn't want to bring in to disrupt the salary structure of the squad. Weber is not one of those players.
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Re: Canucks Acquire David Booth & Parts + Various Rumours

Postby dhabums » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:31 pm

Rumsfeld wrote: Edler is turning into a terrific player but he will never be a Shea Weber.


I thought we were taking about Yanick Weber.
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Re: Canucks Acquire David Booth & Parts + Various Rumours

Postby Rumsfeld » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:50 pm

Hockey Widow wrote: It might be different down the road if MG paid that type of money to someone who did not deserve it. Like J'Bow for example.


Let's keep in mind that our GM offered Mats Sundin 20 million dollars over two seasons. He knew it was a ridiculous overpayment but he wanted to improve the team and there were no other options.

I don't remember any grumblings in the locker room about that, and if there were any you can bet that the drama-obsessed hacks we call sports journalists in this city would have gleefully reported them.
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Re: Canucks Acquire David Booth & Parts + Various Rumours

Postby Corb » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:00 pm

coco_canuck wrote:
dhabums wrote:The Sedins and everyone else fully understand that things change. If Weber was actually there for the taking, Mike Gillis doesn't need to poll his players on what wouldn't hurt their feelings money wise and term wise. I think this team would like to be the best they can possibly be. Now that's just my opinion and it could be wrong.


Yup.

I heard a recent clip of Gillis explaining that he didn't think it was right to pay Ehrhoff what was needed to get a deal done because it would have been unfair to other guys on the team who took a pay cut. But there's a difference between getting your own players to sign under market value and signing a new player from another team, especially if said player is one of the best in the game.

What anyone gets paid is relative to the situation and their talent level.

That's not to say the Canucks should pay Weber what he would make elsewhere, but if he happens to be the team's highest paid player if he signed here, then so be it, and I doubt any of the players will mind too much as long as it's a reasonable deal.

I think the expectation, when giving a 'discount' is that the GM uses your money to improve the team. So I echo the sentiments above from coco and dabums. The players who took 'discounts' aren't a bunch of pouting teenagers who say "Joe makes more than me, so I'm pissed off" (unlike Drew Doughty who insisted on being paid #1). IMO the problems arise when you give discounts and then the GM / Owner sits well under the cap. These guys aren't idiots, if their haircuts lands a 'Weber', I think they'd be quite pleased.
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Re: Canucks Acquire David Booth & Parts + Various Rumours

Postby Jovocop » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:25 pm

Corb wrote:
coco_canuck wrote:
dhabums wrote:The Sedins and everyone else fully understand that things change. If Weber was actually there for the taking, Mike Gillis doesn't need to poll his players on what wouldn't hurt their feelings money wise and term wise. I think this team would like to be the best they can possibly be. Now that's just my opinion and it could be wrong.


Yup.

I heard a recent clip of Gillis explaining that he didn't think it was right to pay Ehrhoff what was needed to get a deal done because it would have been unfair to other guys on the team who took a pay cut. But there's a difference between getting your own players to sign under market value and signing a new player from another team, especially if said player is one of the best in the game.

What anyone gets paid is relative to the situation and their talent level.

That's not to say the Canucks should pay Weber what he would make elsewhere, but if he happens to be the team's highest paid player if he signed here, then so be it, and I doubt any of the players will mind too much as long as it's a reasonable deal.

I think the expectation, when giving a 'discount' is that the GM uses your money to improve the team. So I echo the sentiments above from coco and dabums. The players who took 'discounts' aren't a bunch of pouting teenagers who say "Joe makes more than me, so I'm pissed off" (unlike Drew Doughty who insisted on being paid #1). IMO the problems arise when you give discounts and then the GM / Owner sits well under the cap. These guys aren't idiots, if their haircuts lands a 'Weber', I think they'd be quite pleased.


What I am trying to saying is that it will be hard to ask Edler to give the Canucks a hometown discount when MG signs Weber to $7m+ a season. Of course, if Weber is willing to sign a home(province) discount with the Canucks (say somewhere around $6m), I don't think the Sedins, Kesler and Luongo would complain much. At the same time, Edler might be more willing to take a discount to remain with the team. My whole point is that we could give up alot to trade for Weber and he could end up asking for too much after this season expires. We are just speculating things anyway. Some people are being more optimistic but some are not.
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Re: Canucks Acquire David Booth & Parts + Various Rumours

Postby mathonwy » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:03 am

Jovocop wrote:
What I am trying to saying is that it will be hard to ask Edler to give the Canucks a hometown discount when MG signs Weber to $7m+ a season. Of course, if Weber is willing to sign a home(province) discount with the Canucks (say somewhere around $6m), I don't think the Sedins, Kesler and Luongo would complain much. At the same time, Edler might be more willing to take a discount to remain with the team. My whole point is that we could give up alot to trade for Weber and he could end up asking for too much after this season expires. We are just speculating things anyway. Some people are being more optimistic but some are not.


If Weber is the missing ingredient to the Canucks winning the Stanley Cup then I'm sure all of the players would be ok with the #s everyone else is making. If the Nucks won it in June, I'd bet good money that we'd still have Hoff. Everyone wants to be associated with a winner which is part of the reason it hurts so much losing in game 7. :(
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Re: Canucks Acquire David Booth & Parts + Various Rumours

Postby Cookie La Rue » Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:44 am

The missing element was a little bit more luck but i don't know whom the Canucks can trade for. :lol:
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Re: Canucks Acquire David Booth & Parts + Various Rumours

Postby Mondi » Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:54 am

Nucks aren't getting Webber, no way, no chance no how.

Not with 3 boat anchor contracts of 4+ million.

If they can unload 2 of 3, Luongo, Booth and Ballard it's plausible but still unlikely (you want to trade Kesler and Edler or Hodgson for this guy). Until then, keep dreaming.
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Re: Canucks Acquire David Booth & Parts + Various Rumours

Postby griz » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:07 pm

The missing element was a little bit more luck but i don't know whom the Canucks can trade for. :lol:


Exactly. Weber does not equal a cup. He might hurt the Canucks more than he helps them. How?

- A trade would reduce our stock of roster players. Imagine fewer players to draw from when injuries happen?
- He himself may become injured. Or suspended. Then we're in deep shit.
- We'd have no kick ass 1B goalie behind Luongo to throw at the opposition to confuse them.

Vancouver was *this* close to winning it all. I think adding Weber would be nice, no doubt, but risky at best.
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Re: Canucks Acquire David Booth & Parts + Various Rumours

Postby Fred » Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:58 pm

Booth a minus 11 and Ballard a minus 10...do they not teach them any thing in Florida :D
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Re: Canucks Acquire David Booth & Parts + Various Rumours

Postby RoyalDude » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:52 am

Fred wrote:Booth a minus 11 and Ballard a minus 10...do they not teach them any thing in Florida :D


Thankfully for them there is a Mike Gillis out the who would gladly absorb their over paid unwanteds.
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