From Bountiful to Ponoka

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Vpete
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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by Vpete »

Blob Mckenzie wrote:nm.... I have an opinion about TF but it's better kept to myself.
I know some one who played on that junior team with Fleury and Kennedy. Let's just say that sexual abuse is a complicated issue and each person handles it differently. How Fleury chose to deal with his inner demons is his own issue I only fault him now because he cannot come out and say "I needed to do more earlier and I can only say that with hindsight because i realize how my silence could affect others."
Brick Top: Do you know what "nemesis" means? A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent. Personified in this case by an 'orrible cunt... me.

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ukcanuck
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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by ukcanuck »

Vpete wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:nm.... I have an opinion about TF but it's better kept to myself.
I know some one who played on that junior team with Fleury and Kennedy. Let's just say that sexual abuse is a complicated issue and each person handles it differently. How Fleury chose to deal with his inner demons is his own issue I only fault him now because he cannot come out and say "I needed to do more earlier and I can only say that with hindsight because i realize how my silence could affect others."
Is it wrong to think that Fleury is the victim and doesnt "need" to do shit? I mean yeah in a perfect world maybe he comes forward more, but the guy had a lot to lose by doing that and isn't it really the justice system that has the responsibilty to put the predator behind bars?

I dunno, I'm no fluery fan but it seems wrong somehow that he gets grief when the real monster is pardoned???

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tantalum
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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by tantalum »

What people have an issue with is not so much that he didn't step forward first or even at all in the early days (or ever for that matter). It was that he knew what happened shouldn't have happened, had a friend and teammate that was thinking of coming forward with the accusations, all the while Fleury was letting James into the ownership group of the hitmen and setting him up to coach the team. I think the issue also seems to be the appearance that the motivation behind his book was to make some money and not get justice. If I recall it wasn't until after the book was published he started talking to the authorities. That rubs people the wrong way ( :look: )

I can understand the thought and to be perfectly honest I'm not qualified nor do I have the necessary information/background to know if Fleury did anything "wrong" or if that is normal thinking for a person abused in this manner. No idea so I'll refrain from coming to my own conclusions.

I do think, however, that Fleury really is a dick of a person.

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Doyle Hargraves
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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by Doyle Hargraves »

Vpete wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:nm.... I have an opinion about TF but it's better kept to myself.
I know some one who played on that junior team with Fleury and Kennedy. Let's just say that sexual abuse is a complicated issue and each person handles it differently. How Fleury chose to deal with his inner demons is his own issue I only fault him now because he cannot come out and say "I needed to do more earlier and I can only say that with hindsight because i realize how my silence could affect others."
Vpete.... my problem with Theo was not when he came out or if he came out. I feel sorry for Fleury or any other victim of sexual abuse. It's an issue that hits home with me. The issue I take with him is that he got into bed with Graham James on a financial endeavour and he hired the scumbag to coach teenagers when he knew what kind of monster he was. How Theo could knowingly put kids in harms way like that is disgusting .

Lol my buddy Blaster is defending me on CP only to compare to that asshat Moon. Why didn't Blaster migrate over here when central shut down ? He's actually a decent guy even though we butted heads years ago.
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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by ESQ »

tantalum wrote:If I recall it wasn't until after the book was published he started talking to the authorities. That rubs people the wrong way ( :look: )
Well said - as I recall, Theo was silent until the book came out, which also coincided with his "comeback" bid - a completely blatant publicity stunt intended to sell books.

Until this latest article I had no idea Fleury and James were business partners - I wonder if Fleury's book has a chapter on that?

Everybody knows Fleury is a victim and had a terrible thing happen to him that no child should ever live with. Unless we've been in his shoes we can't judge his actions. If he wants non-judgment from people like this Montreal reporter, I think he's entitled to it.

If, however, he wants unconditional and absolute sympathy from everybody and to hold himself out as a courageous crusader against child abuse, then I think he needs to be prepared to answer the tough questions. It is totally disingenous of him to call out Corrections for giving James a pardon, when 20 years went by without a peep of a complaint, and then put him in charge of junior hockey team. If a complaint comes out from a kid on the Hitmen team, should Fleury face some liability as well for putting James in that situation with eyes completely wide open?

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Doyle Hargraves
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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by Doyle Hargraves »

dhabums wrote:Blobber,

Your fan club is calling.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread ... 326&page=5
Bingo deleted all the comments about me his users posted and any links to this place. I guess he figures he can insulate himself and his short bus gang with the old hear no evil, see no evil. Sorry D'arcy but we're still laughing at you and your pet mongos.
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Potatoe1
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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by Potatoe1 »

Blob Mckenzie wrote: Vpete.... my problem with Theo was not when he came out or if he came out. I feel sorry for Fleury or any other victim of sexual abuse. It's an issue that hits home with me. The issue I take with him is that he got into bed with Graham James on a financial endeavour and he hired the scumbag to coach teenagers when he knew what kind of monster he was. How Theo could knowingly put kids in harms way like that is disgusting .
Yup,

As much as I want to feel bad for TF, the fact he knowingly put James back into a head coaching position and gave him access to other kids is fairly hard to forgive.

Being a victim of sexual abuse will cut you a lot of slack but it does not absolve people of criminal acts or in this case gross negligence.

There is a point at which people need to take some responsibility for their actions.

Vpete
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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by Vpete »

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Vpete wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:nm.... I have an opinion about TF but it's better kept to myself.
I know some one who played on that junior team with Fleury and Kennedy. Let's just say that sexual abuse is a complicated issue and each person handles it differently. How Fleury chose to deal with his inner demons is his own issue I only fault him now because he cannot come out and say "I needed to do more earlier and I can only say that with hindsight because i realize how my silence could affect others."
Vpete.... my problem with Theo was not when he came out or if he came out. I feel sorry for Fleury or any other victim of sexual abuse. It's an issue that hits home with me. The issue I take with him is that he got into bed with Graham James on a financial endeavour and he hired the scumbag to coach teenagers when he knew what kind of monster he was. How Theo could knowingly put kids in harms way like that is disgusting .

Lol my buddy Blaster is defending me on CP only to compare to that asshat Moon. Why didn't Blaster migrate over here when central shut down ? He's actually a decent guy even though we butted heads years ago.
Blob I agree with everything. Don't want to suggest that anyone here or anywhere does not take child abuse seriously. I think in retrospect Fleury needs to come to some understanding of what you said.

My wife has a very good friend who was abused by her uncle. She was young 12-ish and was unable/willing to stop her uncle from doing the same to her younger sister. The older one lives with guilt that she was unable to help her sister and will forever. This may seem cold but while I have a great respect for Fleury in what he has done and lived through I don't see any acknowledgement of guilt for exactly what you described.

I don't get Blaster sometimes he tried to 'out' me at CP for some reason and then once it happened I received no level of fairness in approach from mods.
Brick Top: Do you know what "nemesis" means? A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent. Personified in this case by an 'orrible cunt... me.

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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by Blaster86 »

Blob Mckenzie wrote: Lol my buddy Blaster is defending me on CP only to compare to that asshat Moon. Why didn't Blaster migrate over here when central shut down ? He's actually a decent guy even though we butted heads years ago.

Having only a Gmail and hotmail account, using my main gmail account and having it denied when I tried signing up and assuming it was the same for hotmail. Just tried hotmail now and... well... shoulda tried it months ago. I missed some much fun after waking up one morning, clicking Old-CC and getting a note where I was pretty sure I could taste the saltiness of tears.

Moon is an asshat, but apparently he's actually a nice guy when he's not intentionally going out of his way to piss everyone off. I meant more "The Same" in the former part of this statement, not the latter.

If I've outted someone over at CP, it's likely because I thought the whole point was to troll which is only going to make my life more difficult in other areas of the forum. The Hockey Talk has gotten to near unreadable levels there, but the rest of the forum is still for the most part solid and for better or worse I am part of that community now.

Edit- As for Theo hiring James, Resolute has done a bit of homework. James wasn't hired, he found investors. Theo was one of them, Sheldon Kennedy was another.

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tantalum
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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by tantalum »

And they were then co-owners of a team that made Grahame James a head coach. Doesn't really change much in all honesty.

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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by Listercat »

Blob is right !!

Why or how could TF or Sheldon for that matter invest in an organization that James was a part of let alone "enable" him to be in a position to damage more young boys?

It boggles my mind !
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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by dbr »

I'm sure most things that people who were persistently sexually and emotionally manipulated and abused over the course of years think would boggle the mind of any normal, well-adjusted person.

Fleury's actions put more kids in harm's way, which is a damned shame. However it might not be very reasonable to expect someone who went through what he did to act... well, normally. Just look at Mike Danton.

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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by Potatoe1 »

dbr wrote:I'm sure most things that people who were persistently sexually and emotionally manipulated and abused over the course of years think would boggle the mind of any normal, well-adjusted person.

Fleury's actions put more kids in harm's way, which is a damned shame. However it might not be very reasonable to expect someone who went through what he did to act... well, normally. Just look at Mike Danton.

Yes Mike Danton went to prison.

There are loads of people dealt a shit hand in life but that doesn't mean they should get a pass on future actions.

TF put kids other kids in harms way, there really isn't any excuse for that. How do you think the parents of the Kids who played under James in Calgary feel, I doubt they are like, "ok well TF was messed up so we cant blame him".

dbr
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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by dbr »

I'm not saying Fleury should not bear responsibility for his failure to do the right thing.

My only point is that people like James completely mindfuck their victims, and while they can't be absolved of responsibility for their subsequent actions a bit of understanding is sometimes in order. Doesn't change the fact that Fleury put other junior players in harm's way.. it's just sad, I guess.

BCReefer
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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by BCReefer »

I cannot comment on Fleury's actions, this has never happened to me so I don't know what I would do.

But enought about TF, we need to just talk about Darcy and his site, after all it is Christmas and the time for giving and being thankful.

Darcy - let me go first, I want to wish you a Merry Christmas and thank you for your site, I can now cancel my newspaper because your site is better than the comics.

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