Keith Ballard for Our First

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the toucan kid
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Re: Keith Ballard for Our First

Post by the toucan kid » Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:39 am

Even if we add say $5 for Kesler and $3 for Raymond it still leaves us with $8 million left over. They have space for another "D" and frankly we can't make a run without a stronger defense than this last play-offs.
Kesler was signed quite a while ago there Fred :lol:

trouble

Re: Keith Ballard for Our First

Post by trouble » Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:49 pm

I think you guys forget what hands of stone both Bernier and Grabner have. How many times have you seen bernier miss a wide open net when standing in front. Same goes with Grabner, He's got speed to kill but has a tough time once he gets into a scoring postion. Bernier can hit but seems to hurt something everytime he does


Your top six player have got to be able to burry it once they have a scorig chance. I don't see that in either player traded away yesterday

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Re: Keith Ballard for Our First

Post by nucklehead_88 » Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:11 pm

Grabner reminds me of Brandon Reid. tons of speed, no finish at all. i like the trade. Why does everyone hate Ballard already? from what ive seen he's a great d-man
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DonCherry4PM
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Re: Keith Ballard for Our First

Post by DonCherry4PM » Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:53 pm

Fred, the only reason we have previously been loathe to move prospects is that our cupboards have been barren. And you usually don't want to trade away your only blue chip guy - which in previous years was pretty much all we had. Now we do have some very good prospects and I am not against trading them away - I just would like to see a good return. I don't think we got good return for Grabner.

Trouble and Nucklehead, Grabner's hands aren't nearly as bad as you are both making out - not even close to what Reid's were. He just needs some more time to get them up to speed with his legs. Raymond had the same problem over the past few years and look at his improvement in this one. Bernier for sure does have hands of stone but I don't believe anyone on these boards has said anything implying that they are disappointed he was traded. And Grabner is a guy who will bury the puck, its just not going to happen here unless it is in our net....

Skimming some Panthers forums and there is not nearly the hesitation as on our boards. Pretty overwhelmingly in favour of the deal. Just an interesting side note.
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the toucan kid
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Re: Keith Ballard for Our First

Post by the toucan kid » Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:58 pm

Skimming some Panthers forums and there is not nearly the hesitation as on our boards. Pretty overwhelmingly in favour of the deal. Just an interesting side note.
Yeah, but if you're a Panther fan any change is good. Actually, they're in a full fledged rebuild, so of course getting a prospect and a pick would be a wise move. It's just a question of what status the organization is in, and between them and us, it's polar opposite.

This might not be a fair question, but what would have been fair return for Grabner? I mean you're not getting a first line player or a top pairing D-man for a guy who maxes out as a second line winger and a pick. We basically traded a burgeoning second liner for a second pairing d-man, and then paid the tax of the draft pick to get a guy who is ready now when we have a chance to go for it, and not down the road. And we got rid of a contract.

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Re: Keith Ballard for Our First

Post by DonCherry4PM » Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:32 pm

Touc,

Still don't like the 2nd pairing D for 4.2 million - I do not think that Ballard is even close to our best d-man and yet he is getting paid more than any of them. Now that isn't to say that salaries will always be relative to everyone's value on the team, but I see the 4.2 million for 5 years as being restrictive of getting a Volchenkov or a Hamhuis (who I think would both be better suited to fit our needs). In my mind, what we really need to shore up our defense is a guy that is close to or already is a top-paring D-man. This deal did not get us that and its cap hit makes that more difficult to do now.

I would agree that right now we might not get great value for Grabner, but I think if we would have held onto him for another half or a third of a season, we would get much better value. I think he is a very similar player to Raymond, but Raymond would fetch much better value right now. I like both players and didn't want to see either of them go, but I think you sell high and buy low. This was not a case of that.
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trouble

Re: Keith Ballard for Our First

Post by trouble » Sat Jun 26, 2010 4:16 pm

the toucan kid wrote:
Skimming some Panthers forums and there is not nearly the hesitation as on our boards. Pretty overwhelmingly in favour of the deal. Just an interesting side note.
Yeah, but if you're a Panther fan any change is good. Actually, they're in a full fledged rebuild, so of course getting a prospect and a pick would be a wise move. It's just a question of what status the organization is in, and between them and us, it's polar opposite.

This might not be a fair question, but what would have been fair return for Grabner? I mean you're not getting a first line player or a top pairing D-man for a guy who maxes out as a second line winger and a pick. We basically traded a burgeoning second liner for a second pairing d-man, and then paid the tax of the draft pick to get a guy who is ready now when we have a chance to go for it, and not down the road. And we got rid of a contract.
Grabner is way over rated .. He wasn't all that good in The AHL and you expect him to become a scoring machine in the NHL. 20 goals tops out of Grabner if he is lucky and plays first line minutes which he would never get here.

Players like Grabner are everywhere. There must have been 6 to 8 of them picked in the first round this season. Not much return on that.. Tallon said he was more excited about the first overal pick then the players he got.. He also went on to say he had 10 teams in the mix looking to trade for Ballard

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Re: Keith Ballard for Our First

Post by DonCherry4PM » Sat Jun 26, 2010 4:41 pm

Like Tallon is going to go on TV and say he fleeced Gillis in a trade.

His stating that 10 teams were interested is totally irrelevant. Which teams were they? What did they offer? Were they serious interests or just general queries? What is mildly relevant (and is even still of limited use for adjudging the worth of this trade) is what said teams were willing to pay for Ballard which was obviously not as much as what the Canucks actually did pay.

11 points in his first 20 games in the NHL. Are you kidding me, 20 goals as a top mark for Grabner is a joke. Given his speed, his shot and soft hands, if he isn't scoring 25-35 goals within two years I will create a topic thread apologizing. But the chances of that are slim to none. Pure goal scorers with such blazing speed are not common. I am going to miss watching him progress and seeing what could have turned into one of our most exciting players.
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nucklehead_88
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Re: Keith Ballard for Our First

Post by nucklehead_88 » Sat Jun 26, 2010 4:42 pm

i think the part i dont like about it is giving away the first rounder....only thing i dont like about it
"HE WILL PLAY, YOU KNOW HE'LL PLAY, HE'LL PLAY ON CRUTCHES...."

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trouble

Re: Keith Ballard for Our First

Post by trouble » Sat Jun 26, 2010 6:12 pm

DonCherry4PM wrote:Like Tallon is going to go on TV and say he fleeced Gillis in a trade.

His stating that 10 teams were interested is totally irrelevant. Which teams were they? What did they offer? Were they serious interests or just general queries? What is mildly relevant (and is even still of limited use for adjudging the worth of this trade) is what said teams were willing to pay for Ballard which was obviously not as much as what the Canucks actually did pay.

11 points in his first 20 games in the NHL. Are you kidding me, 20 goals as a top mark for Grabner is a joke. Given his speed, his shot and soft hands, if he isn't scoring 25-35 goals within two years I will create a topic thread apologizing. But the chances of that are slim to none. Pure goal scorers with such blazing speed are not common. I am going to miss watching him progress and seeing what could have turned into one of our most exciting players.
Ya when he is playing on the PP with the Sedins.. and take away he one hat trick he did Sqaut... The soft hands quote made me piss my pants..Dude you have no clue what your talking about. Go back to bed

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Sid Dithers
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Re: Keith Ballard for Our First

Post by Sid Dithers » Sat Jun 26, 2010 7:04 pm

trouble wrote:
DonCherry4PM wrote:Like Tallon is going to go on TV and say he fleeced Gillis in a trade.

His stating that 10 teams were interested is totally irrelevant. Which teams were they? What did they offer? Were they serious interests or just general queries? What is mildly relevant (and is even still of limited use for adjudging the worth of this trade) is what said teams were willing to pay for Ballard which was obviously not as much as what the Canucks actually did pay.

11 points in his first 20 games in the NHL. Are you kidding me, 20 goals as a top mark for Grabner is a joke. Given his speed, his shot and soft hands, if he isn't scoring 25-35 goals within two years I will create a topic thread apologizing. But the chances of that are slim to none. Pure goal scorers with such blazing speed are not common. I am going to miss watching him progress and seeing what could have turned into one of our most exciting players.
Ya when he is playing on the PP with the Sedins.. and take away he one hat trick he did Sqaut... The soft hands quote made me piss my pants..Dude you have no clue what your talking about. Go back to bed

I think when he calms down a bit and displays true confidence at the NHL level, his hands will prove to be better than what we think they are. I think he'll be a steady 25 goal scorer, but will struggle to contribute decently in other parts of the game. He's a softie.
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ClamRussel
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Re: Keith Ballard for Our First

Post by ClamRussel » Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:43 pm

Fred wrote:Currently the Canucks have $16 mill in Cap space and 13 playewrs signed, including Ballard but excluding Kesler and Raymond. Even if we add say $5 for Kesler and $3 for Raymond it still leaves us with $8 million left over.
Kesler is signed.
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trouble

Re: Keith Ballard for Our First

Post by trouble » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:14 pm

Now here is a few hits from our new forward Oreskovich. I do beleive we talked about the Canucks not hitting the Chicago defence during the playoffs. Now if AV can get this guy to contiune to throw his weight around, he will be a nice fit on the fourth line. Enjoy !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxokpL6s ... r_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drJFWXJe ... r_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13eoyEC8 ... r_embedded

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ClamRussel
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Re: Keith Ballard for Our First

Post by ClamRussel » Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:55 am

Good thing he's a good hitter because he sure can't drop 'em.
Actually, the more I see of him the more I think he's actually got a shot at making our team on the 4th line. He certainly looks more effective than Glass or Hordichuk.

Here's another clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNj1-_zm ... re=related

At the very least they'll love him in the 'Peg!
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trouble

Re: Keith Ballard for Our First

Post by trouble » Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:38 am

ClamRussel wrote:Good thing he's a good hitter because he sure can't drop 'em.
Actually, the more I see of him the more I think he's actually got a shot at making our team on the 4th line. He certainly looks more effective than Glass or Hordichuk.

Here's another clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNj1-_zm ... re=related

At the very least they'll love him in the 'Peg!
Ya he will drop them, He's just not a good fighter.. But let him lay someone out and let Rypen step in and take care of the scrapping LOL

I think whats going on here is they played in Florida and most only watch the Canucks, So when they trade most have no clue in what we are getting..

Ballard was 3rd in the league for blocked shots. Something Vancouver needs

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