WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

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Fred
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Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by Fred » Fri May 14, 2010 10:25 am

One of the things that I noticed during the play-off run was the improvement Alberts made in his game. Once he either understood or was told that you can't be running around to get a hit in the West he settled down. From a disaterous start against LA to his last game against Chicago there was steady improvement IMO. I understand he's a #6 or 7 but on the PK with his size and reach he can play a role. One thing for sure the entire defence core is not going to be made up with $5 mill defensmen to get good "D" you have to have the low cost "D" as well. Alberts still has a year left and I expect to see him back, Rome I'm not sure there seems to be no spirit there, he does his job barely IMO but a # 6 or 7 may not add big skill but they have to add some thing and he strikes me as just a pale shadow of what you need at that spot.

Edlers the future, still young and his best years to come, Bieska, "Joe Kool" has way too many brain cramps to be a real # 1-4 "D" you need consistency at that position and that's his flaw, SOB is really challenging him. Salo a quality player but a china doll. Erhoff seems to be the real thing and a good trade by MG So at the end of the day you need a Pronger type guy, big mean and offensive.....saurely that won't be to tough to find :D :D
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Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by Farhan Lalji » Fri May 14, 2010 1:50 pm

Tiger wrote:WTF you idiot Samuelsson is GOLD :)
Which is exactly why I suggested Samuelson, who's value is at an all-time high right now, might actually fetch us some significant help in areas that we need help in. Yes - Samuelson can score goals, but we have many wingers that can score goals. The loss of Samuelson's offensive production could be completely nullified with an upgrade in another position (i.e. a top tier shut down center and #1 PK guy, a solid stay-at-home defenseman, etc.).

So - if our offense goes down slightly but our defense (or whatever) goes way up, would you still consider it to be idiotic?

In a perfect world, we could trade guys like Andrew Alberts or Tanner Glass for these upgrades, but the NHL doesn't work like that. In order to receive, you have to give.

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Raymond-Kesler-Grabner
???-Hodgson-Schroeder

Is still a pretty formiddable offense for your top 3 lines.

The assets from a Samuelson trade (in the form of a quality defenseman or a quality shut down center/PK guy) could hypothetically make us a far more well rounded team.

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Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by Island Nucklehead » Fri May 14, 2010 2:09 pm

Farhan Lalji wrote: The assets from a Samuelson trade (in the form of a quality defenseman or a quality shut down center/PK guy) could hypothetically make us a far more well rounded team.
The thing is, you probably will not get this for Samuelsson. He had a terrific season, far and away his career best... but who do you think is going to want him and his years left?

Given Samuelssons contributions to THIS team, I think he's more valuable here and a question-mark elsewhere.

Face it, between him and Burrows, you're looking at 65 goals for less than $5M. That's a great bargain and you keep that if at all possible.

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Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by Fred » Fri May 14, 2010 2:12 pm

I would think MG is more in tune with finding some FA's such as Colby Armstrong or Arron Asham, wingers that play big with a bit of an attitude, a poor man's Milan Lucic. Add a couple of big mobile D and you're ready to go. :)
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Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by Madcombinepilot » Fri May 14, 2010 5:53 pm

for the forwards, the top two lines are set. With the Twins, Burrows, Raymond, Kesler, and Samuleson we are solid through the top two.

Assuming tha Demitra is gone (kinda like he was most of the year...) the thirs line of Hodgeson-Wellwood and Grabner is very intrigueing. I know that Hodgeson is out of position, but its and easy move from center to wing, and Wellwood is smart enough to play with Coho. Grabner just adds speed and that is never a bad thing.

Our weakest line is the 4th. a 4th line of Hordi/Glass, Johnson and ripper is ok for the regular season, but for the playoffs next year we should assume that either johnson or Ripper will be injured, and hordi can't play in the playoffs.. and glass barley makes the lineup in any case.. This is where we can add some grit and sandpaper, without hammering the cap. (hence, Bernier and Demitra are gone from my lineup) I would love to see a hard nosed guy like Downie end up here, or perhaps a young Mike Keane. Those guys with johnson as a center are excellent for pk or 4th line shutdown roles..

On D, quite simply, we need a puck moving stud. If this means that Mitchell is gone, (or had back for 2million or less) then cool. I had thought that last years plethora of defenders would have been deep enough to get us through the playoffs, buy wow. seriously, who would expect that for the last 5 years, the canucks would suffer an almost 40% rate of injuies to its top 4 defencemen?!?!? It seems like every year, we suffer through defensive injuries like no other team. I simply am stopping trying to understand this, and falling in line with the theory of 'more is better'. Last year, we had the deepest D line in october we have ever seen. Mitchell, Edler, Salo, Beiksa, Erhoff, Lukowich, SoB, Schnieder... 8 guys who would all be in the top 6 of any team, no questions asked... and we still relyed heavily on Rome, Alberts and baumgartner.. heck, even Evan Oberg played a game or two with us. I am not looking for excuses for the last years, but examining the future. DO we really need a stud back there to get injured, or are we better off upgrading the 3-8 positions on defence?? we really need some youth on the moose coming through the d system, and I hope thats where gillis concentrates.

are we better off riding the debris that we have adding a single 5.5 million dollar defenceman, or are we better off getting 3 guys at 1.8 each?

Thats what I am pondering...
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Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by Sid Dithers » Fri May 14, 2010 6:05 pm

I was somewhat surprised when MG called Kevin Connauton's season 'absolutely fantastic' in his presser. Makes me think he didn't get out to the Coliseum too often. Connauton had a strong year and learned a lot, but MG is giving this the hard sell and I'm not sure I like it.
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Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by the toucan kid » Fri May 14, 2010 7:19 pm

Face it, between him and Burrows, you're looking at 65 goals for less than $5M. That's a great bargain and you keep that if at all possible.
Let's call it reasonably 50 goals for 5 million - and it's still a deal. Samuellson has never been a 30 guy before, and Burrows seemed to slow at times. I'd say 25 each is about right, maybe more, but that's gravy.

That said, if someone is willing to take Samuellson's money off the books... I might just make the move. Give away offense? Well yes, but we have guys who might just do almost as well for no money. A gamble, but one we might have to make to clear out enough salary to get room to refurbish the back end.

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Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by Farhan Lalji » Fri May 14, 2010 7:29 pm

Given the collapses of Boston, Washington, and New Jersey, I'm wondering if they could be potential trading partners.

I'm dreaming out loud here, but I'll say it anyway: How good would Chara look in a Nucks uniform. 8-) He's EXACTLY the type of guy that we need right now. The guy would literally make Byfuglien his girlfriend in front of the net. Could a guy like Mike Green be had from Washington?....packaged with Semen per se? ;)

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Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by the toucan kid » Fri May 14, 2010 7:32 pm

I'm dreaming out loud here, but I'll say it anyway: How good would Chara look in a Nucks uniform. 8-) He's EXACTLY the type of guy that we need right now. The guy would literally make Byfuglien his girlfriend. Could a guy like Mike Green be had from Washington?....packaged with Semen per se? ;)
Why would either of those teams move their premier players when both might be contenders (considering Boston has four first rounders the next two years, two of them potentially in the lotto) for quite some time?

It's the budget teams we have to exploit.

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Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by Fred » Fri May 14, 2010 11:54 pm

Sid Dithers wrote:I was somewhat surprised when MG called Kevin Connauton's season 'absolutely fantastic' in his presser. Makes me think he didn't get out to the Coliseum too often. Connauton had a strong year and learned a lot, but MG is giving this the hard sell and I'm not sure I like it.

Yeah that struck me to, Connautons a couple of year away, at least be fore he hits the NHL. Kind makes you think about what else he said
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Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by BingoTough » Sat May 15, 2010 2:40 am

orts wrote:I didn't get to watch much of the playoffs, since I moved to Europe and have a really crappy internet connection (damn, Cookie et al., I don't know how you guys ever manage to stay up for the games. Onna plus side, NoMeansNo is touring).
ESPN Europe allows you to watch on demand, so you can watch HNIC on Sunday mornings. Gives you an excuse to start drinking early. :drink:

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Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by orts » Sat May 15, 2010 3:39 am

BingoTough wrote:ESPN Europe allows you to watch on demand, so you can watch HNIC on Sunday mornings. Gives you an excuse to start drinking early. :drink:
Aha, that's excellent to know, thanks! actually, come to think of it, I've had altogether too many nights lately where I got home from the bar at 6 a.m. and the games were already over, even in Vancouver...

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Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by Sid Dithers » Sat May 15, 2010 12:01 pm

the toucan kid wrote: Why would either of those teams move their premier players when both might be contenders (considering Boston has four first rounders the next two years, two of them potentially in the lotto) for quite some time?

It's the budget teams we have to exploit.
Speaking of which, I was listening to Pratt yesterday and he would love to see Shea Weber here. duh...yeah right. According to Dave, offer a first-round pick and say..Mason Raymond and you've got a deal because Nashville are cash-strapped and would be looking to unload big contracts. I must have missed the memo. Since when are other teams lining up to make sweetheart deals with the Canucks for their best players? 'Delusional' doesn't begin to describe this stuff.
Last edited by Sid Dithers on Sat May 15, 2010 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by Sid Dithers » Sat May 15, 2010 12:11 pm

Farhan Lalji wrote: My guess would be the following:

-Hodgson (for a very promising defensive prospect)
No. I don't trade away blue chippers until I see what they can do at the NHL level.
Farhan Lalji wrote:Schroeder and Schneider (for a very promising defensive prospect))
Might work. I'm still skeptical about Schroeder's realistic potential.
Farhan Lalji wrote:Bieksa (for a solid power forward)
Wouldn't fetch that much. The bloom is off that rose. But you MIGHT get a project power forward prospect.
Farhan Lalji wrote:Samuelson (for a legitimate top tier shut down center that would also be a top notch PK guy)
No. If you start trading away FA's who chose to sign here, you'll never attract them anymore if you treat one bad.
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Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by Farhan Lalji » Sat May 15, 2010 1:14 pm

Sid Dithers wrote:
the toucan kid wrote: Why would either of those teams move their premier players when both might be contenders (considering Boston has four first rounders the next two years, two of them potentially in the lotto) for quite some time?

It's the budget teams we have to exploit.
Speaking of which, I was listening to Pratt yesterday and he would love to see Shea Weber here. duh...yeah right. According to Dave, offer a first-round pick and say..Mason Raymond and you've got a deal because Nashville are cash-strapped and would be looking to unload big contracts. I must have missed the memo. Since when are other teams lining up to make sweetheart deals with the Canucks for their best players? 'Delusional' doesn't begin to describe this stuff.
Nashville would be insane to trade away Weber (cap problems or not). A man can dream, but it won't happen.


p.s._____________Toucan Kid: You're also right about your previous post to me (i.e. why would either of those teams move their premier players). Like I said though - I was just dreaming out loud. SOMETIMES....just sometimes.....extraordinary deals come out of nowhere (i.e. Heatley to San Jose, Thornton to San Jose, Luongo to Vancouver, etc.).


A toast to being optimisitcally realistic. :P

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