WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

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Farhan Lalji

WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by Farhan Lalji » Wed May 12, 2010 8:23 pm

WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

So - in your opinion, where do the Canucks go from here? How do they rebuild this team?

For me - the following players are gonzo

-Demitra (too expensive)
-Mitchell (career in jeopardy)
-Johnson (no longer effective in his given role)
-O'Brien (via trade: he has some great qualities but he's too much of a drama queen in my opinion...too much maintenance. I am also not fond of his lack of discpline and decision making abilities).
-Salo (time to get someone who is younger and more durable)
-Bieksa (time to trade him. Again - too many errors and mental mistakes from Bieksa).
-Bernier (too slow and doesn't play physical enough given his size and role).


For me - I keep
-Wellwood (proved that he can play in the clutch)
-Raymond (showed signficant signs of improvement this year)

Hodgson and Schroeder make the team.

Heading into the next year, the other major change I make is this: In the off-season, I explain to Burrows and Kesler that they will be going back to their old roles from the start of the 2008/09 season (i.e. in a shut down role).


Sedin-Sedin-Samuelson
Burrows-Kesler-Rypien
Raymond-Wellwood-Grabner
???-Hodgson-Schroeder

On defense, I make a major pitch for Hamhuis, Seidenberg, and Volchenkov (not really realistic here to get all 3, but whatever…..)

Edler-Erhoff
Hamhuis-Seidenberg
Volchenkov-(assets from trade?)

Luongo
Schneider

This is just off the top of my head. Upon further analysis however, the team still looks pretty soft…..and I’m not sure if the ‘D’ is any better or if it’s just different.

I feel like saying something more creative here (i.e. trade a draft pick for Carey Price, and then trade Luongo to another team for some depth and/or a solid defenseman), but we all know that won’t happen. Trading the Sedin twins to Anaheim for Getzlaf and Perry is another thought I had in mind…..but it’s only something that’s going to happen on my Xbox360 (along with my fantasy trade involving Kesler, along with a package, for Rick Nash…..meaning that Nash-Getzlaf-Perry would be our top line). Meh – I dunno.

What would you guys do? How would your team look?

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Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by Ridleyfan » Wed May 12, 2010 10:43 pm

I'm not sure that the four defensemen you cite can all be replaced by better options. Hamhuis, Foster, Volchenkov would be a dream come true, but the Canucks would have to find buyers for an existing contract. They're not going to get all three for even twice Demitra's salary.

You know what's funny? Whenever any fan of any team thinks "Who's out there that's stupid enough to take____________?", the answer is ALWAYS Glen Sather! :lol: :lol:
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trouble

Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by trouble » Thu May 13, 2010 12:45 am

Hodgson/Schroeder are not fourth line players.. They have to play with skilled players and get lots of minutes to be effective.

Your fourth liners have to be crash and bangers in this league.. They can have speed but have got to be players who are willing to get banged up.. Johnson is a player i would like to keep.. He does what it takes to win.. No complaints.. Just does it.

Judging Johnson in the last few games he played in the playoffs is wrong.. The guy broke his foot and came back 2 or 3 weeks early. That shit is unheard of They broke the mold when they made him.. He is a warrier and we need to keep him.. If we don't there will be 29 teams lining up to get him. He is perfect for a fourth line center. But is a UFA come July 1st



I don't see Welly in the Canucks lineup next year, I think he is gonna be to rich for the Canucks. He was a RFA last year and really had no choice but Arbitration. He is a UFA on July 1st and is gonna get offers after how he played in the playoffs. So get ready to say goodbye.

SOB is also a UFA this coming season, same goes for Lukowich and Hansen

Glass and Rome are both RFA

BTW ...Just incase you didn't know, Hordichuk at 775,000, Rypien at 550,000 and Alberts at 1,050,000 all have one year left on their contracts.

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Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by Island Nucklehead » Thu May 13, 2010 7:45 am

That team will get pounded. No grit, at all... get ready to lose.

The Canucks need to beef up. I don't mean get slower, but you have to challenge guys like Hodgson and Shroeder to make this team. Welcome to the club boys, this team is trying to make the Conference Finals. Earn your spot. Having those guys one the bottom line is retarded. They'll make their mark as two-way third liners, or they'll be in Manitoba. Either way, I don't like it. We have to get bigger, meaner, and more dedicated... I don't think rookies will do that.

Personally, it pisses me off to no end that people want to get rid of O'Brien, Bieksa, Bernier etc. You will have the biggest bunch of whiney pussies in the league, bank it. The Canucks didn't sacrifice enough to begin with, and you want to gut the toughness right out of this team? I can't stand it... get real people. As much as you want it to be NHL10, it's not.

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Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by jchockey » Thu May 13, 2010 8:33 am

Farhan Lalji wrote: For me - the following players are gonzo

-Demitra (too expensive)
-Mitchell (career in jeopardy)
-Johnson (no longer effective in his given role)
-O'Brien (via trade: he has some great qualities but he's too much of a drama queen in my opinion...too much maintenance. I am also not fond of his lack of discpline and decision making abilities).
-Salo (time to get someone who is younger and more durable)
-Bieksa (time to trade him. Again - too many errors and mental mistakes from Bieksa).
-Bernier (too slow and doesn't play physical enough given his size and role).
- Demitra's a goner. Everyone knew that before the season started and his performance just reinforced that notion.
- I wouldn't mind seeing Mitchell back, but yes, health is a concern and he won't be signed until teams are 100% sure he's symptom-free
- Keep O'Brien. He deserves to stay
- Salo's old and fragile. As good of a player he is it's time to move to another direction.
- Keep Bieksa. He's the only player on our back end, along with O'Brien, that plays with any sandpaper
- Keep Bernier. He's still young. Before and after his hernia he was playing well. He wasn't the only player playing shitty int he playoffs. Vigneault hates him and plays him 6 minutes a night. Also I just got a Bernier jersey for Christmas.

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Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by the Cunning Linguist » Thu May 13, 2010 9:20 am

jchockey wrote:- Demitra's a goner. Everyone knew that before the season started and his performance just reinforced that notion.
- I wouldn't mind seeing Mitchell back, but yes, health is a concern and he won't be signed until teams are 100% sure he's symptom-free
- Keep O'Brien. He deserves to stay
- Salo's old and fragile. As good of a player he is it's time to move to another direction.
- Keep Bieksa. He's the only player on our back end, along with O'Brien, that plays with any sandpaper
- Keep Bernier. He's still young. Before and after his hernia he was playing well. He wasn't the only player playing shitty int he playoffs. Vigneault hates him and plays him 6 minutes a night. Also I just got a Bernier jersey for Christmas.
Agree with most of this.
  • Buh-bye Pavol. He should sign with Calgary - he might be a good table setter for Iginila; I think Demo wanted to sign in Vancouver because his son is a skier.
  • Salo is signed through next season; as fragile as he is, he's still a better two-way defenseman than any UFA that we might be able to afford.
  • Mitchell - I'd also like to re-sign but not at the dollars he's currently getting. Maybe 2 years at $2M per, no NTC...
  • SOB - I'd like to re-sign; he's come a long way over the season, his off-ice habits notwithstanding. Offer $2M per for 3 years, no NTC.
  • BXA is signed through next season, but I wouldn't object a trade if there was a market for his services. Personally, I believe there'd be very little interest in him at his price.
  • Buh-bye RJ; your PK spot is Cody Hodgson's to lose, and if CoHo impresses, he'll move up to the 3rd line C.
  • Go big and go after Hamhuis; Volchenkov will be too expensive and he and Seidenberg play in the East - Hamhuis has excelled playing against bigger, tougher Western conference opps and he's from BC.
  • Work on an extension for Ehrhoff.
  • Replace Raycroft with another minimum-wage backup 'tender; see if you can pry Braydon Coburn from the Flyers for Schneider.
[*]AA is signed through next season; keep him as your #7/8 and a trade deadline bargaining chip.

Salo / Edler
Ehrhof / Hamhuis
BXA / SOB

Coburn / AA / Rome
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Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by jchockey » Thu May 13, 2010 9:31 am

Coburn won't accept being regulated as a seventh defenseman. He is a top four defenseman.

I wouldn't mind seeing RJ back if he came cheaper, perhaps closer to the league minimum at 900k (?). I don't think Hodgson will start on the PK considering Vigneault's reluctance to use rookies but he will be in years to come.

I agree, the big fish is Hamhuis. He wants to play here (from Smithers, I believe) and he will play here. And we know he'll play hard because he's playing at home, for all 82 games of the season.

Farhan Lalji

Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by Farhan Lalji » Thu May 13, 2010 9:39 am

Island Nucklehead wrote:That team will get pounded. No grit, at all... get ready to lose.

The Canucks need to beef up. I don't mean get slower, but you have to challenge guys like Hodgson and Shroeder to make this team. Welcome to the club boys, this team is trying to make the Conference Finals. Earn your spot. Having those guys one the bottom line is retarded. They'll make their mark as two-way third liners, or they'll be in Manitoba. Either way, I don't like it. We have to get bigger, meaner, and more dedicated... I don't think rookies will do that.

Personally, it pisses me off to no end that people want to get rid of O'Brien, Bieksa, Bernier etc. You will have the biggest bunch of whiney pussies in the league, bank it. The Canucks didn't sacrifice enough to begin with, and you want to gut the toughness right out of this team? I can't stand it... get real people. As much as you want it to be NHL10, it's not.
I hear ya Island Knuck. Don't get me wrong.

In all likelihood, guys like O'Brien, Bieksa, and Bernier will probably be back anyways (due to the extreme difficulty involved in trading nowadays).

Here's my problem with those guys however:

Bernier - He's too nice a guy and doesn't use his size in the manner that he should (atleast consistently enough). No hands, limited mobility, and a grit that leaves a lot more to be desired. I think Bernier needs to be replaced.

O’Brien – Too much of a drama queen. I think it’s to the point where he could be an on-ice and off-ice distraction in the future. I am also NOT a fan of the many brain dead decisions he made during these playoffs (i.e. bad penalties, inappropriate pinches to join the rush, etc.). Having said that – O’Brien does have some positive tangible qualities and this is why I think he would attract some attention in a trade.

Bieksa – Too many mental mistakes and too many inconsistent performances. I think it’s time for Bieksa to part ways as well.

I agree with you on the fact that this team needs to have more grit. However – it should NOT be at the expense of players taking undisciplined penalties and/or making mistakes. I would rather have a well discipline and highly skilled team full of pussies than a gritty team that takes dumb penalties and makes mental mistakes at crucial times.

If the Canucks have a chance to move these guys – and perhaps replace them with guys that have ALL of the qualities grit, discipline, and consistency, then I’d do it. More likely than not however, my wishes won’t come true…..and so you’ll most likely get your wish of Bernier, O’Brien, and Bieksa staying as Canucks.

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Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by the toucan kid » Thu May 13, 2010 9:41 am

The Canucks need to beef up. I don't mean get slower, but you have to challenge guys like Hodgson and Shroeder to make this team. Welcome to the club boys, this team is trying to make the Conference Finals. Earn your spot. Having those guys one the bottom line is retarded. They'll make their mark as two-way third liners, or they'll be in Manitoba. Either way, I don't like it. We have to get bigger, meaner, and more dedicated... I don't think rookies will do that.
I never saw that as a problem at ANY point this year. Frankly, I think it's antiquated. What are you supposing we spend money on a third line winger who is 6'4? Why bother. We do have grit on this team, and I actually think the right kind. I mean if you want to fill out the fourth line with three Glass clones who play for nothing, I agree with you, but I don't really think money needs to be spent on players who dress because of their dimensions.

I do agree about Farhan's fourth line being a bit wacko. Obviously they need to fill out a 2b line that can spell Kesler to do matchup work during certain points of the year. Might actually be a luxury. Rypien in the top six is goofy, but people seem to really want to see it.

We've got Edler and Ehroff, SOB is fine for a sixth guy, now we just need a 1, a 3 and a 5 back there. I question if Bieksa is really that 3, or at least the 3 we want. I think Mitchell could be the five, but not if we expects to be paid 3 million dollars, and Salo is just holding a slot for another year.

Farhan Lalji

Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by Farhan Lalji » Thu May 13, 2010 9:50 am

I think my biggest frustration as a fan, is that I want to atleast consider the fact that changes could be made on a far more epic level......but they just have no chance of happening (unless I'm playing NHL 10).

I completely agree with Island Knucklehead that this team needs grit.....and with the risk of not being politically correct, some Canadianism in there.

You know - as much as I love the twins, and how they've developed over these psat 5-6 years, the truth of the matter is that they don't have the same presence in the playoffs as they do the regular season. Yes - they'll get their points, but you just never see them taking over a game. If they're not getting points, they're not really all that effective. In this regard, it seems like we are seeing Markus Naslund part deux.

That's one reason why I like guys like Getzlaf and Perry. They may not always play up to par during the regular season, but the guys flat out BRING IT during the playoffs. If they're not scoring, their nailing people down low. Is it just coincidence that Anaheim almost beat Detroit last year in 7 games?......while knocking off San Jose in the 1st round?

Personally - if it was up to me, I would strongly consider making chances of epic proportions around here. Henrik, Daniel, Samuelson, Grabner, Erhoff, etc. --> all traded for gritty North American hockey players and/or purely Canadian. Guys that can take names and knock mother fuckers out come playoff time. Heck - sign Derek Boogard and George Laraque just so that they can beat up Byfuglien when we play Chicago.

Farhan Lalji

Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by Farhan Lalji » Thu May 13, 2010 9:52 am

the toucan kid wrote:
I do agree about Farhan's fourth line being a bit wacko.
I think it was a case of me underestimating the development of Hodgson and Schroeder. If these guys are ready then by all means, play em' on the 3rd line or higher.

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Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by the toucan kid » Thu May 13, 2010 10:05 am

You know - as much as I love the twins, and how they've developed over these psat 5-6 years, the truth of the matter is that they don't have the same presence in the playoffs as they do the regular season. Yes - they'll get their points, but you just never see them taking over a game. If they're not getting points, they're not really all that effective. In this regard, it seems like we are seeing Markus Naslund part deux.
We did actually see them take over some games. I don't know, they're never going to be quick enough to play any other sort of hard checking forecheck game, they have their thing and its great. I honestly, didn't think they underwhelmed with 14 (!) points in 12 games.
Personally - if it was up to me, I would strongly consider making chances of epic proportions around here. Henrik, Daniel, Samuelson, Grabner, Erhoff, etc. --> all traded for gritty North American hockey players and/or purely Canadian. Guys that can take names and knock mother fuckers out come playoff time. Heck - sign Derek Boogard and George Laraque just so that they can beat up Byfuglien when we play Chicago.
Clearly the dumbest, most reactionary thing you've ever posted. Well, okay other than the Semn thing :lol:

Again, I reiterate this mythical toughness was never an issue, and the roustabout stuff was our undoing in several games. We were only too eager to buy into the old ideas.

I love how I was the one railing against this core for so long, and now that we've actually committed to it, people are taking their first possible chance to call for its obliteration and I'm stuck defending it.

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Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by Cornuck » Thu May 13, 2010 10:24 am

Farhan Lalji wrote:You know - as much as I love the twins, and how they've developed over these past 5-6 years, the truth of the matter is that they don't have the same presence in the playoffs as they do the regular season. Yes - they'll get their points, but you just never see them taking over a game. If they're not getting points, they're not really all that effective.
Seems like you're contradicting yourself.

In the playoffs, line matchups become more important and the Sedins have problems when their passing lanes are shut done. LA did this early, then the Hawks did it. Still they got over a point a game, which is more than acceptable to any player. They aren't the guys that will "take over a game". They play a consistent form hockey that gets results.
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Farhan Lalji

Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by Farhan Lalji » Thu May 13, 2010 10:46 am

the toucan kid wrote: Clearly the dumbest, most reactionary thing you've ever posted. Well, okay other than the Semn thing :lol:


First things first - The Semn comment was done on purpose! :P

As much as I hate to agree, you're right about your other comment (i.e. dumbest thing I've ever posted). I guess I'm just frustrated, and am really not interested in seeing the same result next year.

Again, I reiterate this mythical toughness was never an issue, and the roustabout stuff was our undoing in several games. We were only too eager to buy into the old ideas.


Agree and disagree. While I think that the Canucks definitely could use some more grit (and to a certain degree, this WAS an issue), it should NOT be at the expense of discipline and hockey sense (which is one reason why I suspect that me and Island Knucklehead aren't in complete agreement in this thread).

I love how I was the one railing against this core for so long, and now that we've actually committed to it, people are taking their first possible chance to call for its obliteration and I'm stuck defending it.


:lol:

Such is life my friend. To be honest, I was actually thinking that the Canucks could have gone a different route last year. I saw a lot of "red flags" last year in terms of their mental toughness and overall team psyche (which is how my now famous "mentally fragile" term was created on here).
Last edited by Farhan Lalji on Thu May 13, 2010 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

Farhan Lalji

Re: WHERE do the Canucks go from here? List your strategies

Post by Farhan Lalji » Thu May 13, 2010 10:52 am

Cornuck wrote:
Farhan Lalji wrote:You know - as much as I love the twins, and how they've developed over these past 5-6 years, the truth of the matter is that they don't have the same presence in the playoffs as they do the regular season. Yes - they'll get their points, but you just never see them taking over a game. If they're not getting points, they're not really all that effective.
Seems like you're contradicting yourself.

In the playoffs, line matchups become more important and the Sedins have problems when their passing lanes are shut done. LA did this early, then the Hawks did it. Still they got over a point a game, which is more than acceptable to any player. They aren't the guys that will "take over a game". They play a consistent form hockey that gets results.
I see what you mean (in terms of my contradiction). I guess for me, there's a difference between 'being effective' and 'completely taking a gameover.' For example- I believe that the twins, and Naslund in his prime, regularly took over games during the regular season but just didn't have that element when it came to the playoffs. The twins and Naslund still got their points, but you just never got a sense that they were taking over a game...or being much of a threat. Look at guys like Jonathan Toews, Duncan Keith, and Brent Seabrook for instance. Hell - even though Patrick Kane and Marian Hossa didn't score much for the Hawks against us, they really looked dangerous on numerous occassions.

In this post-season for instance, other than a 1-2 games against the Kings, can we honestly say that the twins were just as dominating as they were during the regular season? What about Naslund back in 02/03? Who knows - maybe I'm being a bit too harsh. Guys like Ovechkin, Crosby, and Malkin also weren't overly dominating in this post-season either.

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