Back to back games

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Fred
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Back to back games

Post by Fred » Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:54 pm

First of all I believe that back to back games should be banned. Simply because the NHL is not serving to it's customer what is expected.

But is any one aware of the records of wins losses for back to back games, if there is a substantial difference in results compared with other normal games ?
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Re: Back to back games

Post by dr.dork » Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:12 pm

Fred wrote:First of all I believe that back to back games should be banned. Simply because the NHL is not serving to it's customer what is expected.

But is any one aware of the records of wins losses for back to back games, if there is a substantial difference in results compared with other normal games ?
Back to backs are inevitable in an 82 game schedule. I think they are ultimately unavoidable, but they shouldn't be the MO. This years schedule is completely screwy (for the Canucks). Seven day breaks, 9 games in 14 days, the list is endless.

And some back to backs are completely unreasonable. A back to back at home is generally OK. A back to back in a different time zone or with a 1000 mile flight between the back to back should be banned (see Canucks: minnesota then to Dallas). But a short flight (Edmonton->Calgary or San Jose -> L.A.) should be ok but avoided if possible.

The other problem is the dreaded one game homestand, and the Canucks have more than a few of those. The Canucks come to GM place from the road to meet Detroit who has been waiting for 3 days for the game. Exactly who has "home field" advantage here ?

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Re: Back to back games

Post by Mikodat » Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:52 pm

I kind of agree with both dork but would take it one step further.. Make it like the Playoffs.. day rest and travel.. then 2 days b2b against the same team .. It would work out well and foster division rivalries.. Not sure why we are now playing 3 days off.. 2 games b2b while travelling 2 time zones then 4 days off.. makes no sense. Definitely Dallas had a big edge and you could see the Canucks weren't game ready..
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Re: Back to back games

Post by nucklehead_88 » Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:21 am

i just dont get it, back2back thursday and friday, dont play til tuesday...they couldnt move that second game to saturday?
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Re: Back to back games

Post by Fred » Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:46 am

Here's a site listing the B2B games

http://www.ontheforecheck.com/2009/7/16 ... orite-team

that's 452 below par games the NHL will dish up :bang:
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Re: Back to back games

Post by LotusBlossom » Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:15 pm

Fred wrote:Here's a site listing the B2B games

http://www.ontheforecheck.com/2009/7/16 ... orite-team

that's 452 below par games the NHL will dish up :bang:
Why does NHL believe the more they changes things, the better it will be? Has their track record not spoken to them yet?

Maybe modeling a system like the NFL might help out this game I love...obviously patterning yourself after the NBA has been nothing but a failure.
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Re: Back to back games

Post by dangler » Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:39 pm

LotusBlossom wrote:

Maybe modeling a system like the NFL might help out this game I love.
I absolutely agree,the reason the NFL has stayed atop the ever expanding North American sports heap is that it has refused to water down the product by over-exposure(too many games) and over-expansion(too many teams in the wrong markets).
Unfortunately for the NHL there is no turning back, the huge player salaries,huge franchise fee's invested and owners gate revenues predicated on 40 + home games, things that won't/can't be reversed by itself.
I think the league will have to suffer a major economic meltdown of sorts before it will even have a chance at fixing itself.

The inability to secure a TV contract,failing teams in non-traditional markets and the current global-economy is the start of the water spinning in the big toilet bowl which we know as the NHL.
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Re: Back to back games

Post by Mikodat » Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:46 pm

Dunno the anwers really.. but its still the same problem.. too big a salary load for a ' fringe ' sport.. meaning too many games... too much travel and a lot worse product on the ice.. WTF is a Vancouver team doing travelling to Florida for hockey????? ... maybe break the NHL up.. to a western league and an eastern league.. with the 2 league winners meeting for a cup challenge.. hell throw in a European league too. 3 team playoff for the Stanley... I sometimes wish the old WHA had stayed alive.. NHL needs the competition ...
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Re: Back to back games

Post by Mikodat » Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:46 pm

Dunno the anwers really.. but its still the same problem.. too big a salary load for a ' fringe ' sport.. meaning too many games... too much travel and a lot worse product on the ice.. WTF is a Vancouver team doing travelling to Florida for hockey????? ... maybe break the NHL up.. to a western league and an eastern league.. with the 2 league winners meeting for a cup challenge.. hell throw in a European league too. 3 team playoff for the Stanley... I sometimes wish the old WHA had stayed alive.. NHL needs the competition ...
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Re: Back to back games

Post by Jelly » Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:53 pm

The league schedule maker is a joke. Leaves had Saturday nights games every week. Leaves west coast games are played at 7pm Eastern time. Extremly stupid road trips. Sure, 30 teams, 82 game schedule, it's hard to make, but atleast make an effort.

I'm sure any of us could come up with a better schedule if we were hired.
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Re: Back to back games

Post by Broda » Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:29 pm

you are never going to win the battle against the Leaves playing at 7pm eastern over here... There is 5 million people they need to cater to. You will never win that battle. Its about ratings and money.

would be cool if something happend with the nhl because of this economic situation.. and change things massively.. go back to four divisions.. have divisional playoffs. Contraction or moving teams back to canada. I wonder if the salary cap was put in place years ago if teams like Quebec, Winnepeg, Hartford would all still be here.. if that was the situation i think we would probably have seen another team in canada or two possibly by now..
The NHL is way more expensive than it should be. It isn't one of the big sports in the states.. and thats just how it is.. so the nhl shouldn't have salaries that are near the likes of the NFL, MLB and the NBA. It just can't afford it.. look at all the teams failing.
Just curious is the nhl the leauge with the most uncertain futures for clubs? I know pretty much every NFL team is healthy.. but not sure about the other two leagues

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Re: Back to back games

Post by Cornuck » Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:45 pm

The schedule is so bad, the NHL should have offered a public apology. Olympics or not - it's gotta be hard on the players, and like others have said, it affects the product.

Let's just hope the Olympics are worth it this year!
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Re: Back to back games

Post by dr.dork » Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:14 pm

Broda wrote:Contraction or moving teams back to canada. I wonder if the salary cap was put in place years ago if teams like Quebec, Winnepeg, Hartford would all still be here.. if that was the situation i think we would probably have seen another team in canada or two possibly by now..
I'm not sure the cap would have helped Quebec or Winnipeg. They were doomed more by the dollar than the lack of a cap.

All the Canadian teams except for Toronto and Montreal were in trouble with a 65 cent Canadian dollar. Winnipeg could likely survive now, as could Quebec. Quebec also suffered through a very long losing spell that can doom almost any franchise (except Toronto). Some existing franchises would currently be struggling with a 65 cent dollar. The Oilers and Flames would be in trouble and the Canucks wouldn't be spending anywhere near the cap (unless they are willing to lose a lot of money).

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Re: Back to back games

Post by Broda » Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:59 am

yes i agree about the dollar being so low, but i still think it wouldn't have played as huge a role... when did the jets leave 96? You don't think that a salary cap probably around 35 mil a season and the bottom of 23 mill or something like that could have affected it.. maybe im way off.. as i have been drinking.. but i still think that could have helped possibly save them.
I guess thats probably too great of a difference.. but i still think it could have worked.. but this is the world of if and buts.. so it really doesn't matter.. just saying i would love to see the jets, Nordiques and a team in Hamilton in the nhl.. and i think if the economy stays mostly stagnant with slight increases these teams could be around again in the next ten years.. hey i can dream. For some reason.. i guess probably from the rock'em sock'em videos... i have a thought that the canucks and jets were big rivals..

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Re: Back to back games

Post by dr.dork » Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:49 am

Broda wrote:yes i agree about the dollar being so low, but i still think it wouldn't have played as huge a role... when did the jets leave 96? You don't think that a salary cap probably around 35 mil a season and the bottom of 23 mill or something like that could have affected it.. maybe im way off.. as i have been drinking.. but i still think that could have helped possibly save them.
Possibly. I don't think the Jets ever tried to outspend the Rangers, Toronto, or Detroit, and only one of those teams actually benefited from spending like crazy.

But let's say that when the dollars are roughly equal (today), the Jets have a payroll of $50M, other expenses of $30M and revenue of $90M. So profit of $10M. With the dollar at 0.65, the payroll balloons to $77M (CAN), and everything else equal (in CAN $) the profit of $10M turns into a loss of $17M. (It is probably worse than that, because some of the expenses are undoubtedly in US $). At some point they need to drop their salary so low that they are uncompetitive... revenues drop ... and a death spiral ensues.

Obviously this "analysis" is overly simplistic, but it is certainly true that teams like the Canucks, Oiler and Flames would be back in trouble (and probably not spending to the cap) with a dollar at 0.65. Hamilton would likely be fine, Winnipeg would be in trouble, and Quebec may or may not be OK.

The Canadian franchises are all doing well right now, and although Bettman would say it is because of the cap, a bigger factor is probably the strength of the canadian dollar. Although one could correctly argue that if there were more canadian teams the cap would drop (quicker than it currently would) as the canadian dollar dropped.

However, franchises in Winnipeg, Hamilton and Quebec at least would make money in the good times and could survive the lean times. Then we have Phoenix, Nashville, Tampa Bay, and Florida (probably among many others) that are guaranteed money losers even in the "good" times.

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