More bottom 6 talk

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westvandal
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More bottom 6 talk

Post by westvandal » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:20 pm

Yes it is just two games but to me is it obvious that Matt Pettinger has vastly improved that 4th line. Tonight's game was the first game this season that the 4th line outmatched their counterpart. This was nice to see! I remember Pettinger from the last time we had him and the thing that I was most impressed with him was his quickness to get on the forecheck.

Also, with Hansen due back, where do the Canucks go? I gotta say....Wellwood has pretty much played himself off the team at this point. Tanner Glass is fairly useless offensively but still contributes ok. Bolduc was a nice fit before he went down. Hordichuk looked inspired at times tonight, but he won't play every night with a healthy Canucks team. Rypien stays. Johnson has had a rough start to the year but I have a soft spot for his contributions.

What gives?

Thoughts?
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Re: More bottom 6 talk

Post by dr.dork » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:13 am

westvandal wrote: Thoughts?
I like Johnson on the PK, and I loved Johnson in the playoffs last year. You have to keep him.

Wellwood obviously hasn't impressed, but look at his linemates. Have to seriously think about what to do with him once we get healthy, but I don't know if I would ditch him yet. He also was valuable in the playoffs last year and he is coming off an injury. And nobody else has stepped up to replace Wellwood as 3rd line center.

Pettinger has looked good !! I agree with that. He looked good against the Rangers and was skating well tonight.

I think we need to rotate Hordichuk out unless we need his toughness (not that he steps up too often).

The only other thought is that given our injury situation, half of the bottom 6 is playing in the top 6, so once we are through this brutal injury stretch perhaps the bottom 6 can be properly evaluated. And just to contradict myself, the killer Bs, Bolduc, Burrows and Bolduc looked good on the third line, but I don't know if that would last.

I still like:

Sedins + Burrows,
Kesler, Raymond, Samuelsson/Grabner
Wellwood, Bernier, Grabner/Samuelsson
Rypien, Johnson, Hordi/Pettinger/Hansen

And if Wellwood disappoints, then throw Bolduc in there (but I would give Wellwood more time).

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Re: More bottom 6 talk

Post by Island Nucklehead » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:20 am

What Dork said. Minus the Bolduc part. I don't think he gets any consideration over Wellwood. I've been impressed with Wellwood's compete level, but as dork pointed out: his linemates are brutal. He is certainly skilled enough to play on an NHL team in a semi-scoring role. Guys like Rypien and Glass are fourth liners, and have little to no offensive creative skills. Wellwood will be fine when he gets reasonable line-mates. (Hansen/Bernier?)

Sedins-Burr
Raymond-Kesler-Grabner
Samuelsson-Wellwood-Bernier
Hansen-Johnson-Rypien
Hordi

That lineup could be a monster.

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Re: More bottom 6 talk

Post by Broda » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:28 am

Gotta say i would be very happy with the line up that Island put up there. Wellwood needs better line mates. Although its going to be tough when or if everyone is healthy to tell Samuelsson that he moves back to the 3rd line. I wouldn't be opposed to switch him and Grabs up, as Grabner is also a pure shooter that could work his way into the top six full time or a regular spot. Or the consideration of Sammy with the Sedins and move Burr back to the third or second line.

Daniel Henrik Burrows
Raymond Kesler Samuelsson
Grabner Wellwood Bernier
Hansen Johnson Rypien

Hordichuck/ Pettinger

if there is room for two.... although im guessing with AV as coach it would probably be expected that more of a grinder that is willing to fight in Glass might stay instead of Petty... anyways just my line up if i were wearing a suit behind the bench.

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Re: More bottom 6 talk

Post by Mikodat » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:17 am

And if/when Demitra suits up??

Sedin Sedin Samuelsson.. ( Samuelson gets the nod over Demitra - more willing to go to dirty area )
Raymond/Grabner Kesler Demitra.
Benier Bolduc Burrows ( a tough checking line )
Pettinger/Johnson/Rypien/Hordi

Wellwood has offensive upside but for a checking/defensive line I like Bolduc.. Burrows isn't having a good year but is a premier checker/agitator.. hard to make the call on Grabner or Raymond.. One would have to be bumped down to the third line replacing Bernier who bumps down to the 4th replacing Pettinger.. course this can all change in 3 .. 4 games if Wellwood starts producing or Burrows gets a few goals on the first line.. Not to worry.. AV will do his juggling act :) But it does look like we have a surplus of forwards - some can go back to the Moose or maybe be used as a 2 for 1 trade for a better player?

Tough call.. and dork , Island ,Broda.. its fun to tinker on paper but a lot will depend on who comes back first and who plays themselves onto the team..
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Re: More bottom 6 talk

Post by Jelly » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:02 am

Right now, we're not even sure if Demitra can/will come back.

The most interesting part will be when Hansen is able to come back in a few weeks, he basically has no spot on the team. Probably will start with the Moose until another injury opens up some space.

You would really have to look into next season to decide what to do with Johnson/Rypien/Bolduc/Glass/Hordichuk scramble on the fourth line. Hordichuk has a contract, but he's the least capable defender and Rypien would be willing to take the heavyweights anyways with out him.

Johnson anchors the fourth line, but are we able to give him a raise next season? Cause once he hits the FA market, I'm sure some one will hand him a nice fat contract. He'll be 33, the way he plays, it could very well be his last contract. It would do our team VERY well if we can secure him, but can we afford it? If we can't, should we look into moving him at the deadline to the East? Unless we go on another tear, we're not going to be in contending mode, but then again, our beloved Canucks does love to go on a tear in second half.
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Re: More bottom 6 talk

Post by the toucan kid » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:10 am

Glass and Bolduc don't do anything for me. Hordichuk looks all washed out (nice shot last night aside). So I'm thinking we need to keep Rypien in and put Hansen on the other wing with Johnson centering. It's a gumption line rather than a toughguy line, but I'm just not seeing the need for thugs the way our games are at this point. We can leave Hordi in the press box if we need a goon I guess.

The third line is a bit of a mess. We need a third line center... Wellwood is a tweener who isn't going to produce and isn't the gritty player that we could use to bring that line together. I'm not sure who is out there, but MG should have an eye. I think it's the kind of role a cunning GM can fill without giving much up. Bernier/ Burrows are two thirds of a pretty good checking line, but we need a center more to their style of game.

Raymond is the guy for the top six with Kesler. Grabner when he gets back deserves his spot for a while. We're probably still a top six guy short, but that might be something we look at toward the deadline if we're serious.

Sedin-Sedin-Samuellson is probably pretty sturdy once everyone gets back.

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Re: More bottom 6 talk

Post by Broda » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:32 am

Jelly i really don't get your hate for Hansen??? He is fast, gritty has offensive upside and has shown he will drop the mits when asked. I think he is one of the better bottom six forwards we have and so far from what glass has shown he has nothing on Hansen. I reiterate to look at their stats from their careers. Plus Hansen is apparently on this road trip and AV has said no one goes on this road trip unless they are going to play. I would expect hansen to come back into the line up the last game or two on this trip. Canucks.com mention in an article he might be back before Lu so he is almost healthy.

also meant to say that Hansen could be a welcome addition to Wellwood's wing, once bernier is over this flu hopefully Hansen Wellwood and Bernier could get it going together.

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Re: More bottom 6 talk

Post by Fred » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:49 am

I think Hansen bring more speed and frankly if I were to descibe the Canucks style it would be fast, relentless and defensive and Hansen fits all categories I also like Bolduc. Money wise he has a edge over Wellwood, but Wellwood can play ther PP. Tough call
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Re: More bottom 6 talk

Post by Jelly » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:59 am

I don't hate Hansen.

Just that he was injured, and we have players that filled his role.
He was fighting for a spot in training camp, his injury really hurt his chances. Glass wasn't going to make opening night roster, but the injury gave him a chance, and IMO Glass plays a better 4th line role then Hansen. Next season, both RFA, Hansen is due for atleast $605k from the RFA offer, Glass for $550k. That just might be the difference when the cap comes down next season, save a little here, save a little there. Hansen simply fell into the black hole of crap luck and bad situations IMO.

As for the 3rd line spot, Wellwood is fine ATM, if we really need a checking line that game, I'm sure AV will move a few pieces around and have Kesler against the superstars.
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Re: More bottom 6 talk

Post by dr.dork » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:39 pm

Fred wrote:I think Hansen bring more speed and frankly if I were to descibe the Canucks style it would be fast, relentless and defensive and Hansen fits all categories I also like Bolduc. Money wise he has a edge over Wellwood, but Wellwood can play ther PP. Tough call
Good point, Fred. Hansen is also pretty good on the PK and he was playing well until he got hurt.

Depending on who we are playing it may make sense to only dress one (or none) of Hordichuk and O'Brien. May not need both on the same night (until we play the Rangers again :evil: ).

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Re: More bottom 6 talk

Post by Broda » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:55 pm

Jelly wrote: don't hate Hansen.

Just that he was injured, and we have players that filled his role.
He was fighting for a spot in training camp, his injury really hurt his chances. Glass wasn't going to make opening night roster, but the injury gave him a chance, and IMO Glass plays a better 4th line role then Hansen. Next season, both RFA, Hansen is due for atleast $605k from the RFA offer, Glass for $550k. That just might be the difference when the cap comes down next season, save a little here, save a little there. Hansen simply fell into the black hole of crap luck and bad situations IMO.

As for the 3rd line spot, Wellwood is fine ATM, if we really need a checking line that game, I'm sure AV will move a few pieces around and have Kesler against the superstars.
Cool cool, it just felt like it in the pre season i remember you saying he played himself off the team. I defend Lionheart like he is my brother... i don't know why.. But i still believe he could find some more offense to his game and put up ten to fifiteen goals a year. He is a very solid young player that got progressively better last year and definietly made this clubs bottom six better last season. Can't wait to see him back soon.

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Re: More bottom 6 talk

Post by Arbour » Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:24 pm

I have been an ardent Wellwood defender, and it is becoming more and more difficult to justify his spot on the roster, but I think his problems go beyond his line mates. I recall that he did state at the beginning of the season that he wanted to be a more complete player and by that he wanted to get more assists. Perhaps he should be thinking to score and let the set ups arise from whatever those efforts bring. What I don't see at this point, is Wellwood being effective in any capacity, the talents still there, the problem is bringing it to the surface.

As far as Pettinger goes, I have to agree he has made a difference to the fourth line. It seems to me that during his last stint with Canucks he also showed some offensive ability (obviously within what is expected of the bottom six). Maybe sticking him with Wellwood and/or Hansen or Bernier could bring a bit of spark to Kyle.

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Re: More bottom 6 talk

Post by dangler » Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:39 pm

I'd like to see if Wellwood & Samuellson could get some mojo going,I could see them being a good fit & it would determine how much of Wellwoods production issues are attributed to lesser-offensivly skilled linemates,or if its just Wellwood being in a slump.
The depth of the Canucks in the bottom 6 this season is pretty good when you start making the list:
Wellwood,Bernier,Hansen,Johnson,Rypien,Hordi,Glass,Pettinger,Bolduc.......................its apparent AV will have lots of options when the injured return.

I see Hansen being more of a Kessler kinda player & feel his skills are not utilised on the 4th line,when he gets healthy I hope he has a breakout season.

And like Mikodat mentioned earlier in this thread alot will be determined on who returns first from injury as they should have a better opportunity to play themselves into a reg. starting position.
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Re: More bottom 6 talk

Post by Jelly » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:06 pm

dr.dork wrote:
Fred wrote:I think Hansen bring more speed and frankly if I were to descibe the Canucks style it would be fast, relentless and defensive and Hansen fits all categories I also like Bolduc. Money wise he has a edge over Wellwood, but Wellwood can play ther PP. Tough call
Good point, Fred. Hansen is also pretty good on the PK and he was playing well until he got hurt.

Depending on who we are playing it may make sense to only dress one (or none) of Hordichuk and O'Brien. May not need both on the same night (until we play the Rangers again :evil: ).


I sure hope we do play the Rangers again, that'd be Stanley Cup Finals Game 1

As for Wellwood, NOT ENOUGH CHEESEBURGERS
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