So, whats really wrong with the Nucks?

[Mikodat]

Yeah I know its early and the canucks got injury problems... But I think all of us in Canuckland are more than a little apprehensive over the poor performance of this years edition.. So, what do you guys and gals think are the main problems and what is the solutions you suggest? I'll start it off with a few observations and guesses ..

1 ) Team focus and work ethic is way off.It shows up in the lack of defensive play by our forwards.
2) not enough fire power - with Daniel and Salo being out our PP and 5 on 5 have both suffered.Samuelsson is a good replacement for Demitra but it still leaves a lot of guys that can''t consistently score goals on the top 6
3) Less than stellar goaltending . Yeah Luongo was ok last game but for the most part the Canucks have been " outgoaltendered " nearly every game..
4) A bad deal by management - overpaying both Bieksa and Edler and letting Ohlund go. other than Erhoff and Mitchell our defence has played terribly.. Sob maybe an exception as he is taking less penalties and is usually in position. Edler is coughing up the puck and out of position every game.. Beiksa is terribly inconsistent . With Salo out we lost not only a good point man but a steady ( though fragile ) dman.. Hopefully the d will improve when and if Sammi gets back and Schneider gets over his injury..
5) Time to mess around with the lines again... Kessler / Raymond / Grabner isn't the answer .. neither Raymond or Grabner will score enough to make up for their lack of defensive play. drop Raymond back to play with Wellwood, send Grabner back to AHL, Put Bernier up with Kessler ( big body that does play reasonably well defensively) and bring Shirikov back for another look .. Forth line ? dunno.. 3 outta 4... Johnson, plus ? Hordi and Glass or Rypien?
6) Radical maybe but its time to think of making the BIG TRADE.. soon as Schneider and Salo can play trade away either or both of Edler and Bieksa for a top 6 forward..
7 ) Play Raycroft more... Might send a message to our sometimes " great " goaltender..

[trouble]

The Number one problem is Injuries.

Hank needs his bro.. It just doesn't work unless they are together.. He looks lost out there

The team really Misses Salo... The Canucks are a way better team with him. Check their Records

I hate the Coach.. I would rather see Walters as our coach.. Anyone but AV

[Jelly]

Salo has NTC for this season, and the next. I really doubt he would accept a trade at this point, unless to a real big contender.

The team as a whole came out stumbling because of the preseason shuffles, then injuries took over while the screwed up schedule took away any momentum / cohesiveness the team had.

Refs being assholes and controlling games isn't doing us favors either, but apparently I'm just biased.

[Arbour]

It's almost as if this team had great expectations coming out of the preseason and then reality set in: as goes Luongo so go the Canucks. If the best player on the team isn't the best player then it is difficult for the remaining talent (further diluted by injuries) to compensate.

Kesler is a wonderful checking center, but so far this year he hasn't really seemed comfortable as a second line scorer. While his line has been dangerous at times they only standout as of late as the best of a bad bunch. Perhaps moving Kesler to the wing and moving Wellwood up between him and Raymond might give the line a little more finish. Somehow a line featuring Wellwood and Ryan Johnson doesn't seem to make much sense.

Edler has been mistake prone, as has Bieksa. Erhoff is showing about as expected, he is a fourth defence man at best. No one on the defence seems willing to hit anybody. It's too bad Lukowich would most likely not clear waivers since in the preseason he did seem willing to play the body.

Even firing on all cylinders this was a middle of the pack playoff team at best. Gillis still has his work cut out for him in order to build a legitimate contender.

[Linden Is God]

Kesler is a wonderful checking center, but so far this year he hasn't really seemed comfortable as a second line scorer. While his line has been dangerous at times they only standout as of late as the best of a bad bunch.

But yet, he has 7 points in 8 games. Surprised the crap out of me when I saw that.

[Mikodat]

Perhaps moving Kesler to the wing and moving Wellwood up between him and Raymond might give the line a little more finish

Agree with moving Wellwood up .. but think Raymond isn't good enough to really help the line score.. Maybe Bernier or Shirikov ( who can shoot ) instead of Raymond? But that does leave a bit of a mess on the 3rd line.. Maybe call the 3rd line the Leftovers line? ( grin )...

[Arbour]

Agree with moving Wellwood up .. but think Raymond isn't good enough to really help the line score.. Maybe Bernier or Shirikov ( who can shoot ) instead of Raymond? But that does leave a bit of a mess on the 3rd line.. Maybe call the 3rd line the Leftovers line? ( grin )...

Giving Shirokov another shot with Wellwood and Kesler might not be a bad idea. Grabner is still too much of a perimeter player for my liking. At this point no one seems to be able to finish, although it may be expecting too much from Shirokov as well. Raymond needs to have AV sit him down and tell him to look a little more for his line mates instead of trying the low percentage shot. Kesler and Raymond did seem to have some chemistry in the playoffs, but that was with Sundin as the center, and perhaps could regain that chemistry if Kesler was back on the wing.

Hopefully the game in Chicago tomorrow will be the wake up call (one way or the other).

[Island Nucklehead]

2) not enough fire power - with Daniel and Salo being out our PP and 5 on 5 have both suffered.Samuelsson is a good replacement for Demitra but it still leaves a lot of guys that can''t consistently score goals on the top 6

Pick most lineups in the league, subtract $13M from their salary, and see how they do. Shouldn't shock anyone.

3) Less than stellar goaltending . Yeah Luongo was ok last game but for the most part the Canucks have been " outgoaltendered " nearly every game..

For you that might mean a reach for the panic button. Considering Luongo's notorious slow starts, I'm betting that he can win us a few games throughout the rest of the season. I don't think Luongo will be the second-best goalie in any given game for long.

4) A bad deal by management - overpaying both Bieksa and Edler and letting Ohlund go. other than Erhoff and Mitchell our defence has played terribly.. Sob maybe an exception as he is taking less penalties and is usually in position. Edler is coughing up the puck and out of position every game.. Beiksa is terribly inconsistent . With Salo out we lost not only a good point man but a steady ( though fragile ) dman.. Hopefully the d will improve when and if Sammi gets back and Schneider gets over his injury..

Selling out Bieksa and Edler already? Weak. Ohlund was slow and declining in almost every aspect of his game, at the contract he got you'd be retarded to sign him. Bieksa is still on pace for 40 points, despite a "slow" start? You know what you get with him. Edler is having a slower start, but can you really judge a guy that's essentially replacing Ohlund (at 23) on 8 games? No, you certainly can't. Wait until we're 20+ games deep before deciding he's overpaid at Jeff Finger money.

5) Time to mess around with the lines again... Kessler / Raymond / Grabner isn't the answer .. neither Raymond or Grabner will score enough to make up for their lack of defensive play. drop Raymond back to play with Wellwood, send Grabner back to AHL, Put Bernier up with Kessler ( big body that does play reasonably well defensively) and bring Shirikov back for another look .. Forth line ? dunno.. 3 outta 4... Johnson, plus ? Hordi and Glass or Rypien?

This team will not score goals. When you're missing 2/3 most talented forwards (Sedin/Demitra) and you're most well rounded offensive defenseman, you're probably missing at least a goal a game. THIS team needs to trap it up, hold the fort, pray that the real Luongo show's up and get some 2-1 wins. That's what they're going to have to do to win. As the more offensively gifted players get healthy, you can open it up a bit more. Asking Raymond, Grabner, Shirokov or whoever to replace a D.Sedin at this point is completely BUNK.

6) Radical maybe but its time to think of making the BIG TRADE.. soon as Schneider and Salo can play trade away either or both of Edler and Bieksa for a top 6 forward..

Can I LOL at that one or what? Keep the bandaids and trade the guys that might actually play for this team next year? If we're that bad off I'd rather keep the folks that have talent, TANK for the season, let Salo, Demitra, Schneider walk and spend their money elsewhere. Bieksa and Edler are going to be key to this D-core for years to come. Rediculous, knee-jerk, stupid, bone-headed, reactionary measure.

7 ) Play Raycroft more... Might send a message to our sometimes " great " goaltender..

What message is that? We sent him the message when we signed him for 12 fucking years. He's here for life, and without him we're totally fucked. If your message is, "Hey Lou, we need you to play up to your standard for us to win" then I'm sure he's already gotten it after this start. If your message is somehow "Show up or we'll play Raycroft", expect a laugh and a shit-kicking as a result.

[LotusBlossom]

2) not enough fire power - with Daniel and Salo being out our PP and 5 on 5 have both suffered.Samuelsson is a good replacement for Demitra but it still leaves a lot of guys that can''t consistently score goals on the top 6

Pick most lineups in the league, subtract $13M from their salary, and see how they do. Shouldn't shock anyone.

3) Less than stellar goaltending . Yeah Luongo was ok last game but for the most part the Canucks have been " outgoaltendered " nearly every game..

For you that might mean a reach for the panic button. Considering Luongo's notorious slow starts, I'm betting that he can win us a few games throughout the rest of the season. I don't think Luongo will be the second-best goalie in any given game for long.

4) A bad deal by management - overpaying both Bieksa and Edler and letting Ohlund go. other than Erhoff and Mitchell our defence has played terribly.. Sob maybe an exception as he is taking less penalties and is usually in position. Edler is coughing up the puck and out of position every game.. Beiksa is terribly inconsistent . With Salo out we lost not only a good point man but a steady ( though fragile ) dman.. Hopefully the d will improve when and if Sammi gets back and Schneider gets over his injury..

Selling out Bieksa and Edler already? Weak. Ohlund was slow and declining in almost every aspect of his game, at the contract he got you'd be retarded to sign him. Bieksa is still on pace for 40 points, despite a "slow" start? You know what you get with him. Edler is having a slower start, but can you really judge a guy that's essentially replacing Ohlund (at 23) on 8 games? No, you certainly can't. Wait until we're 20+ games deep before deciding he's overpaid at Jeff Finger money.

5) Time to mess around with the lines again... Kessler / Raymond / Grabner isn't the answer .. neither Raymond or Grabner will score enough to make up for their lack of defensive play. drop Raymond back to play with Wellwood, send Grabner back to AHL, Put Bernier up with Kessler ( big body that does play reasonably well defensively) and bring Shirikov back for another look .. Forth line ? dunno.. 3 outta 4... Johnson, plus ? Hordi and Glass or Rypien?

This team will not score goals. When you're missing 2/3 most talented forwards (Sedin/Demitra) and you're most well rounded offensive defenseman, you're probably missing at least a goal a game. THIS team needs to trap it up, hold the fort, pray that the real Luongo show's up and get some 2-1 wins. That's what they're going to have to do to win. As the more offensively gifted players get healthy, you can open it up a bit more. Asking Raymond, Grabner, Shirokov or whoever to replace a D.Sedin at this point is completely BUNK.

6) Radical maybe but its time to think of making the BIG TRADE.. soon as Schneider and Salo can play trade away either or both of Edler and Bieksa for a top 6 forward..

Can I LOL at that one or what? Keep the bandaids and trade the guys that might actually play for this team next year? If we're that bad off I'd rather keep the folks that have talent, TANK for the season, let Salo, Demitra, Schneider walk and spend their money elsewhere. Bieksa and Edler are going to be key to this D-core for years to come. Rediculous, knee-jerk, stupid, bone-headed, reactionary measure.

7 ) Play Raycroft more... Might send a message to our sometimes " great " goaltender..

What message is that? We sent him the message when we signed him for 12 fucking years. He's here for life, and without him we're totally fucked. If your message is, "Hey Lou, we need you to play up to your standard for us to win" then I'm sure he's already gotten it after this start. If your message is somehow "Show up or we'll play Raycroft", expect a laugh and a shit-kicking as a result.

Ah I can't wait for you to read my blog when Brian posts it tomorrow...

A voice of reason in a troublesome 8 game period..lol

[Arbour]

Pick most lineups in the league, subtract $13M from their salary, and see how they do. Shouldn't shock anyone.

Before Salo and Daniel went down the Canucks weren't exactly awe inspiring. I do agree that it is too early to panic given the injury situation, but if this team is still sputtering a week from now it may be time to assess individual performances to date, regardless of who is injured.

The real problem is that assuming everyone is healthy, what makes this team any better than last year? Other than the organization pays the Sedins more, the major changes are the addition of Samuelson and with the subtraction of Ohlund and the addition of Schneider and Erhoff. Bieksa's play has not improved and Edler has demonstrated that with increased minutes come more mistakes. It's a long season, and assuming Luongo returns to form the Canucks will win their fair share of games, and once again they will demonstrate that an average team with an exceptional goal tender will most likely make the playoffs, and most likely go about as far as last year.

[jchockey]

1 ) Team focus and work ethic is way off.It shows up in the lack of defensive play by our forwards.

This is really the only gripe I have because stuff like this can be changed. The Canucks have not played a full 60 minutes this year. Had we played even 50 minutes of the game we'd have more than 3 wins under our belt already, easily.

Everything else - line combos, injuries, inconsistency - I take in lumps because it happens. I don't like it, however, when Wellwood doesn't decide to show up until after the final buzzer goes.

[Blob Mckenzie]

[quote="Mikodat"]

6) Radical maybe but its time to think of making the BIG TRADE.. soon as Schneider and Salo can play trade away either or both of Edler and Bieksa for a top 6 forward..





It's not radical it's retarded. Were you huffing Lysol before you came up with that brilliant idea? Trade two of your only young defenceman in the system who can play and replace them with two old injury prone guys.

[DonCherry4PM]

So how long do we have to tank before the newly extended coach gets the can?

Okay, on the serious side, I still think everyone needs to chill. Luongo will come back into his own in November, our injured guys will come back to play, Shirokov might actually be given a legitimate chance despite AV (legitimate being a 10 game showing, not 3 on a highly under-performing team), and the pucks are going to start going into the net (theirs not ours).

If the trend keeps going for a 20 game streak, then it's time for some serious retooling (hopefully coach retooling ), but I think that all this panic (not necessarily on this board) is a bit premature.

[Sid Dithers]

2 problems....
1. The team does not have enough scoring talent. They just don't score many 'easy' goals. You know the type...off the rush...or...a guy makes a brilliant move or something like that. Everything is throw the puck at the net and scrum it. Three yards and a cloud of dust comes to hockey. It's a hard way to get by because if you're effort level is down for the night, you can't get those goals.

2. The team is too easy to play against. Kesler is a beotch to deal with, as are Burrows, Rypien and maybe one or two others. Besides them, the rest of the group scares nobody. Fook, put me up against Wellwood and I'd have him crying by the second period. Too many softies.

[Jelly]

Unless you strap Wellwood in and eat Cheeseburgers infront of him, I can't see how your going to make him cry. He may not be a Rypien, but he didn't get to stay in the NHL because he cried every time he got hit.