Canucks have acquired defencemen Ehrhoff and Lukowich

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Re: Canucks have acquired defencemen Ehrhoff and Lukowich

Post by Farhan Lalji » Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:23 pm

Sid Dithers wrote:
Over time, I've grown suspicious of Bieksa's potential. Sure he has some very nice assets as a Dman, but he's somewhat slow-footed, makes far too many gaffs with the puck and his head just isn't in the game all the time. With these liablilites, I'd move him along to someone who is willing to overpay and maybe provide us a sniper in return. I think Bieksa's trade value is pretty high right now (Edler's is higher, I believe), so maybe this does become the time to maximize the return on an asset.
To be honest, I'm starting to feel the same way. I still think Bieksa is awesome and everything, but I don't hold him in the same regard as I did in the past.

For me - Edler is an untouchable......but I definitely agree that if someone is willing to overpay for Bieksa, then by all means, unload him.

Edler-Erhoff, Mitchell-Salo, O-Brien-Schneider isn't too shabby. It may not be a "great" defense like we'd have with Bieksa in there, but it would still be a pretty decent one.

Lukowich and whoever are also decent fillers if injuries occur.

This summer *finally* got interesting. 8-)

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Re: Canucks have acquired defencemen Ehrhoff and Lukowich

Post by Island Nucklehead » Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:58 pm

Sorry JC, missed your question re: Demitra.

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Demi ... story.html

He had major shoulder surgery in May to repair a torn labrum. Was supposed to be sidelined 4 months. That puts him potentially back to the ice mid-September. Given his age and his injury history, a speedy recovery is far from certain.

It woudln't shock me to see Demitra on the sidelines until mid-late October.


For all you Bieksa bashers: what is with this drive to punch this guys ticket? You have two guys on our defensive roster that are guaranteed bandaids. Schneider is 40, will he last a full season? Lukowich is a more aware, less tough version of O'Brien, at 33, in the final year of his deal is probably not worth $1.6M . By adding Ehrhoff and removing Bieksa you're getting softer and it's a wash offensively. We JUST got some more depth on our back end, and now you want to turn around and head back in the other direction? A top five that consists of Mitchell, Edler, Bieksa, Ehrhoff and Salo is dynamite. Let Schneider hang out as a 6 and O'Brien and Lukowich battle for the seven spot as injury fill-in. Waive/trade the other one.

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Canu ... story.html

Judging by that article Schneider isn't even completely healthy, and may not play in any pre-season games.
"All the reports we saw he's going to be fine, 100 per cent," Gillis said. "There are no issues., He's on the ice now, he's shooting the puck, he's going to be ready for camp, but maybe not participating in games … we are going to be cautious with him. If he's not 100 per cent to start the season we'll address that then."
"He's a plus 40-point defencemen, he's a good skater, he's 6-2, he's got a lot of tremendous features that any team would like and we think he is going to fit in well with our group," Gillis said. "He's a good age and salary-wise he complements the rest of the core defencemen that we have."
Certainly doesn't appear to me that Gillis is looking at altering the "Big four" anytime soon. He loves the training camp battles and I think Lukowich and O'Brien will be scrapping for a spot.

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Re: Canucks have acquired defencemen Ehrhoff and Lukowich

Post by dr.dork » Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:27 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote: For all you Bieksa bashers: what is with this drive to punch this guys ticket?
I like Bieksa, but I think he is a bit overrated. He isn't exceptional offensively and he is suspect defensively and terrible at times. He brings toughness, but with O'Brien, Hordi and Rypien we are OK on the toughness side. His other problem is he seems sometimes like he is too relaxed or (more likely) trying to look cool.

If we could package Bieksa and Demitra (-$8M) we could afford a pretty good center or winger for the second line and still have cap space. Not sure if it is bashing or just a case of "you have to give to get". And as Sid said, maximize your return if you can.

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Re: Canucks have acquired defencemen Ehrhoff and Lukowich

Post by Island Nucklehead » Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:47 pm

Well lets be a little more forward thinking guys.

Mitchell - Contract up after this season. Aging. Question mark on what he wants to re-up. (3.5 cap hit)
Salo - Another year after this one. Aging. Perennial IR candidate. (3.5 cap hit)
Edler- Stud. Young, signed for another three years after this one (3.25 cap hit)
Bieksa - In his prime. 28. Signed for another year after this one. (3.75 cap hit)
Ehrhoff - Prime. 27. Signed for another year after this one. (3.1 cap hit)
O'Brien - Depth guy. 26. RFA at seasons end (1.6)
Lukowich - Depth guy. 33. UFA at seasons end (1.56)
Schneider - Aged Vet. 40. UFA at seasons end (1.55)

Just looking at that list, knowing that guys like Ellington, Oberg and Suave are still a couple years off, why do we want to trade Bieksa when next year we could conceivably have Salo, Edler, Ehrhoff and O'Brien as our top four as early as next season?

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Re: Canucks have acquired defencemen Ehrhoff and Lukowich

Post by Arbour » Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:55 pm

Without M. Schneider's salary the Canucks now sit approximately $1,000,000 over the cap, assuming Hodgson makes the team and Raycroft is the backup. O'Brien's cap hit is $1.6 and Lukowich's is $1,566,666. With the addition of Schneider the Canucks will have to shed salary from somewhere.

The most logical scenario at this point is Gillis is looking at other moves, otherwise the Schneider signing makes no sense, perhaps a package deal for a second line center?

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Re: Canucks have acquired defencemen Ehrhoff and Lukowich

Post by mband » Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:02 pm

Is no one else concerned that Ehrhoff was San Jose's worst +/- player BY FAR last year? Ehrhoff was a -12 on the best regular-season team in the league. That's more than twice as bad as any other player on either SJ or Vancouver! No wonder San Jose wanted to dump him; his even-strength defensive liabilities far outweigh any offensive contributions, and I can't imagine he'll do much better with the Canucks. At least we didn't give up much.

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Re: Canucks have acquired defencemen Ehrhoff and Lukowich

Post by Island Nucklehead » Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:09 pm

Arbour wrote:Without M. Schneider's salary the Canucks now sit approximately $1,000,000 over the cap, assuming Hodgson makes the team and Raycroft is the backup. O'Brien's cap hit is $1.6 and Lukowich's is $1,566,666. With the addition of Schneider the Canucks will have to shed salary from somewhere.

The most logical scenario at this point is Gillis is looking at other moves, otherwise the Schneider signing makes no sense, perhaps a package deal for a second line center?
He's going to go into training camp, and let the guys fight it out. Again, the cap makes little sense. You're going to have to deal MORE money for less return.

If we are 2.55 over the cap after signing Schneider (including Hodgson), then my guess would be Wellwood and O'Brien/Lukowich. $2.8M.

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Re: Canucks have acquired defencemen Ehrhoff and Lukowich

Post by Cornuck » Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:15 pm

mband wrote:Is no one else concerned that Ehrhoff was San Jose's worst +/- player BY FAR last year?
2nd worst - but I see your point. He was only a -2 in the playoffs with 20 shots, so hopefully his offensive side will help the team. I think that regardless of his +/-, we still need some like him on the point during the PP. He's got potential to be a good player on this team, and that's all I'll ask for at this point in the year.
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Re: Canucks have acquired defencemen Ehrhoff and Lukowich

Post by DonCherry4PM » Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:03 pm

Have to say quite a fan of this deal. Like LIG I like Erhoff even given his +/-. He was +9 +8 and + 10 in his three previous seasons, not all that bad IMO. Chalk this year's performance down to a bad year etc. Whatever the case, he has speed which we need and he is offensive which we need. He may not be the perfect piece, but he comes pretty close, especially for the price, and, worst case scenario, he at least plugs a hole.

As for the glut of defensmen we now have, I would like to hang on to as many as possible. I could see Gillis just waiting until camp - seeing how all the players mesh with one another and then making his decisions to get under the cap. If Gillis is getting prepped for a deal and is going to trade Bieksa, it better be one heck of a deal. I have been somewhat hard on Bieksa for some of his boneheaded moves, but he has amazing heart, is tough, and can score goals and put up points. He is a 40 pt. defenseman and would not be easily replaced.

That said, if Gillis has some amazing deal set up to bring in a star forward who could anchor the second line, I MAY not be opposed to the deal. As said above, it would have to be a pretty amazing deal though, for me to be in favour of getting rid of Bieksa. As it stands right now, I am pretty happy with our defense. It went from being somewhat suspect to what I would now judge to be very solid. I think Schneider and Salo can alternate in and out on injuries, as they both have a penchant for that kind of thing.

I like the way this team is shaping up. Gillis seems to be all about depth, which is something that we haven't had in a very long time. Will be nice to sit back and see if it leads to the best kind of success over the next few years.
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Re: Canucks have acquired defencemen Ehrhoff and Lukowich

Post by Badfish » Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:52 pm

You know this must piss of OBrien, just signs a new 1.6 m mil deal and finds out he's now fighting for 6th/7th man instead of 4th/5th as he was when he signed. Either way the guys unhappy, either we keep him as depth where he doesn't get the icetime he wants, or we trade him just after re-signing him. After thinking about it I agree with allot of you that I wouldn't want to make any major moves on D, but one of Obrien, Lukowich moves either via trade (preferably) or waived/moosemeat.

Didn't we sign like 4 semi-NHL quality D that could play the 7th man role pretty well? Nycholat, Baumer, Funk and Rome? They're all Moosemeat for sure now I guess unless there's a big package deal in the works...

Also sounds like Gillis is planning on giving Schneider lots of rest time and wants to keep him healthy if it means sitting him in the box every few nights... come playoffs (not to mention reg season) we'll have a freakin sweet backend firing cannons at our oppnents, Schneider, Salo, Erhoff all have an absolute bomb from the blueline, and Edler & Bieksa also both have a big shot. Imagine a goalie having to worry about bombs comming from either side on the PP< not to mention Sammy on the halfboards... man this team is shaping up.

The Sundin talk.... if he comes back, call me crazy but I think we're contenders. Solid, deep offensive and tough D with a great top 3 forward lines and a nasty 4th line as usual. GOod mix of youth and age/experience, and there are a few more cup rings in the room now than there were 3 months ago... Have heard Van is still a frontrunner on Mats list, but how would we make the room is the only question... Would Mats perhaps take into consideration his contract last year and try to fit under the cap nicely for the benefit of the team and a real chance at the cup? Doubtful, but a man can dream :roll:


P.S. the NHL Canucks site has interviews up with both Gillis and Gilman from today as well as Lou from Olympic camp yesterday. Seems both Execs plan on going into camp with all 8 D and think they will fit under the cap sans moves... Is this just lip service?

P.P.S. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiIHon7wDMk Here once again, is Hitler's take on the sharks situation. Always good stuff.
Last edited by Badfish on Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Canucks have acquired defencemen Ehrhoff and Lukowich

Post by Arbour » Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:59 pm

The problem with waiting until after training camp is that given the number of NHL starting defencemen the Canucks now have, someone will end up on waivers. Now granted Gillis didn't give up much to get Ehrhoff and Lukowich so perhaps he doesn't mind losing a dman, but it certainly doesn't jibe with his statements about having defensive depth and scoring from the back end.

I just checked some SJ Boards and the general consensus is Vancouver won the trade. Most negative comments from those boards concern Erhoff, who is described by the positive side as a good skater and puck handler, but very suspect defensively (in some cases the word "brutal" was used). Where Lukowich was mentioned most were sorry to see him go. Most SJ fans see it for what it was a salary dump by the Sharks, however they would have preferred to see others ( ie Cheechoo) moved before these two.

Gillis is making depth where there really was none, and I'm hoping there is a round two.

Edit:
Badfish wrote:P.S. the NHL Canucks site has interviews up with both Gillis and Gilman from today as well as Lou from Olympic camp yesterday. Seems both Execs plan on going into camp with all 8 D and think they will fit under the cap sans moves... Is this just lip service?
I wonder where he plans to lose the $2 mil plus in salary?

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Re: Canucks have acquired defencemen Ehrhoff and Lukowich

Post by Badfish » Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:12 pm

Arbour wrote: Edit:
Badfish wrote:P.S. the NHL Canucks site has interviews up with both Gillis and Gilman from today as well as Lou from Olympic camp yesterday. Seems both Execs plan on going into camp with all 8 D and think they will fit under the cap sans moves... Is this just lip service?
I wonder where he plans to lose the $2 mil plus in salary?
He claims in the interview that we're not over the cap but right up near it. Is this not counting Hodgeson and one of either SOB or Lukovich's salary? I wonder... gotta be an odd man out somewhere... maybe one of our younger offensive guys like Ryp, Hansen or Raymond are going somewhere either via trade or waivers? I could see some teams having some interest in Raymond, maybe even Hansen although with his 2-way deal he might be destined to the Moose, something which would upset him and perhaps motivate him? Either way, interesting to see how this plays out...

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Re: Canucks have acquired defencemen Ehrhoff and Lukowich

Post by Arbour » Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:35 pm

Badfish wrote:
Arbour wrote: Edit:
Badfish wrote:P.S. the NHL Canucks site has interviews up with both Gillis and Gilman from today as well as Lou from Olympic camp yesterday. Seems both Execs plan on going into camp with all 8 D and think they will fit under the cap sans moves... Is this just lip service?
I wonder where he plans to lose the $2 mil plus in salary?
He claims in the interview that we're not over the cap but right up near it. Is this not counting Hodgeson and one of either SOB or Lukovich's salary? I wonder... gotta be an odd man out somewhere... maybe one of our younger offensive guys like Ryp, Hansen or Raymond are going somewhere either via trade or waivers? I could see some teams having some interest in Raymond, maybe even Hansen although with his 2-way deal he might be destined to the Moose, something which would upset him and perhaps motivate him? Either way, interesting to see how this plays out...
Given Gillis's comment about youth and the signs of chemistry Raymond had with Kesler in the Chicago series, I doubt Raymond is going anywhere. Hansen could be the odd man out, but even moving both these players, at least from what I can gather from various cap sites won't bring the Canucks under the cap, and the open forward position would still have to be filled. Perhaps Demitra is out for longer than anticipated and I'm wondering if Hodgson, at least for now, is potentially slated to return to juniors?

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Re: Canucks have acquired defencemen Ehrhoff and Lukowich

Post by Linden Is God » Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:49 pm

I forget who posted it, but I now vote that we continue to call Ehrhoff The Hoff from now on.
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