Sedins for Heatley + more?

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Madcombinepilot
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Re: Sedins for Heatley + more?

Post by Madcombinepilot »

whenever an unhappy star gets traded, its usually for less than can be obtained for a happy star... (Burw, Thorton are extreme examples)

So, why not try and keep the sedins, and put Demitra in a package going the other way? Demitra (also had an off year), Schnieder (they need goaltending) and Grabner/Picks would be a good place to start (prolly won't be enough). if we are looking to shake it up a lot, add burrows to the mix (i hated even typing that - couldn't form the words) and get something more than Heatly in return.

MG needs to do what all the rest of the GM's do when unhappy stars arise.. bend over the losing GM. Buisness is buisness.

'Picking up Heatley sends all the right messages about wanting to win to guys like Ohlund, Luongo and the twins.

Also protects the fans against the free agency media feeding frenzy if we have made a major move before the start of summer (will help avoid all that 'friendly' "Holik really IS worth 9 million" of "make a move- ANY move" kinda advise)
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Re: Sedins for Heatley + more?

Post by the toucan kid »

Don't want Spezza, would rather use the money more wisely than on him.

A couple of guys who are decent first liners for an elite goal scorer. You've got to do it. It's about accumulating major talent, we might not make the playoffs with Heater, or with the Sedins for that matter, but at least we have a legit impact player up front.

The chances of this happening though are so remote, I don't even feel like pursuing it with any seriousness, because it will just boil down to the same ole me vs. The Sedins (and most of the other posters on the board) debate.
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Re: Sedins for Heatley + more?

Post by Farhan Lalji »

Here's one question I'd like to ask:

-If the Sedin's get traded for Heatley (or even Heatley and Spezza), will our team really be better? Will a trade like this really add to our strengths.....or address any of our weaknesses? (i.e. team speed, team physicality, etc.).
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Re: Sedins for Heatley + more?

Post by jchockey »

Jovorock wrote:I doub the Sedin's would allow to be signed then traded to the Sens, they might ask for no trade clause.

Heatley lives in Kelowna in the summer with his brother, is Vancouver the only westcoast team or would Alberta be also involved?

If MG could do this I think it would be great even at $7.5M
Alberta would also be involved - I believe Heatley spent part of his childhood in Calgary. If Ottawa is looking for youth and picks Edmonton can probably offer up the best package. The Flames are in a cap bind and if they want to add Heatley they'll have to trade someone with a big salary, and at this point Iginla is untouchable and they shouldn't give up on Phaneuf just yet. I think Vancouver's in the best position here as the Western Canadian team, because of cap space and we were the only remaining Canadian team in this year's playoffs.
Farhan Lalji wrote:-If the Sedin's get traded for Heatley (or even Heatley and Spezza), will our team really be better? Will a trade like this really add to our strengths.....or address any of our weaknesses? (i.e. team speed, team physicality, etc.).
Tough to say. However, if I had to hedge my bets it'd be that Heatley and Spezza would score more and generate more points than the Sedins. Does that necessarily make a team better? I'm not sure - while I believe the Sedins are better defensively (if only marginally), Heatley has spent time on the PK this year and has already taken on a leadership role. By getting Heatley and Spezza we would be a little more physical but definitely faster. By keeping the Sedins we would be pretty good in all three zones, but not exceptional in any of them.
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Re: Sedins for Heatley + more?

Post by Lancer »

The one thing I don' think anyone has mentioned is chemistry. Is there anyone in GM Place - either in the dressing room or in the front office - who DOESN'T like the Twins and would rather have them go? By all accounts, these guys may not have been the most vocal but they added to the team cohesiveness IMHO.

To trade that for Heatley, who is being flayed in the Ottawa media (for what that's worth) as a coach-killing cancer in the room, may be a step back. Hard to see where the truth is with the guy's character, but it's enough to give cause for pause. If he thought Clouston was an asshole with an eye for defensive detail and no room for slacking, wait until he gets to his first training camp under Vigneault. On paper, he's a hell of a talent but I don't know if Gillis would be getting more than he bargained for in trading for Heatley.
Jovorock wrote:So, why not try and keep the sedins, and put Demitra in a package going the other way? Demitra (also had an off year), Schnieder (they need goaltending) and Grabner/Picks would be a good place to start (prolly won't be enough). if we are looking to shake it up a lot, add burrows to the mix (i hated even typing that - couldn't form the words) and get something more than Heatly in return.
I see the logic there, and maybe it would fit under the cap. To keep the Twins and have Heatley on board would be a good idea and would open up a hell of a prospect of a second line. Problem is, it wouldn't leave us much room to shop around for a D to replace Ohlund and it's not like the Farm is teeming with prospects. After the years both Schneider and Grabner have had, I'd hate to see either go but you have to give to get. I honestly think Grabner may have a good chance next September... or he may just be on a streak right now...
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the toucan kid
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Re: Sedins for Heatley + more?

Post by the toucan kid »

-If the Sedin's get traded for Heatley (or even Heatley and Spezza), will our team really be better? Will a trade like this really add to our strengths.....or address any of our weaknesses? (i.e. team speed, team physicality, etc.).
Yes, I believe it does make us a better team, but ultimately it's about destroying the old model and concocting a new one. Heatley can play a style tailored to guys like Hodgson and Kesler, the Twins can't. It's a step in a process to getting away from a team built around the dull style we've been playing these last few years.
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Re: Sedins for Heatley + more?

Post by Island Nucklehead »

I honestly don't believe the Canucks have much of a shot in this. Ottawa isn't going to suffer going into a full-blown rebuild, so odds are they get pieces that will help them now, and use the cap space to sign some impact free agents.

The only way I see us getting Heatley is letting the Sedin's go, and pairing him up with a Free Agent signing (Cammilleri, Gaborik, Hossa etc.) And given that option, I would rather not lose the Sedin's AND the players it would take to get Heatley (Raymond, Burrows, Grabner and our first etc.). Although that would give us a completely different look, and satisfy a lot of peoples desire for a "pure goal scorer", I'm not convinced its in the best interest of the team now or moving forward.

I think teams like Colorado (3rd overall pick), San Jose (Marleau), Anaheim (Pronger), Edmonton (youth), Calgary (Phaneuf) probably all have better chances of landing this guy and improving their roster, wheras he wouldn't significantly improve us if the Sedins are gone.
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Re: Sedins for Heatley + more?

Post by the toucan kid »

The only way I see us getting Heatley is letting the Sedin's go, and pairing him up with a Free Agent signing (Cammilleri, Gaborik, Hossa etc.) And given that option, I would rather not lose the Sedin's AND the players it would take to get Heatley (Raymond, Burrows, Grabner and our first etc.). Although that would give us a completely different look, and satisfy a lot of peoples desire for a "pure goal scorer", I'm not convinced its in the best interest of the team now or moving forward.
Tend to agree, giving up our youth is not in the best interest of the team. And you're right, I doubt very much a Sedins for Heatley swap is feasible for Ottawa, so this has zero shot of happening.
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Re: Sedins for Heatley + more?

Post by Cornuck »

If we go after any RFA/UFA this year, I'd like it to be a true sniper to go with the Sedins (after they're signed of course).

We've seen what they can do with plumbers - but we haven't seen what they could do with a true NHL scorer. If we can land that players and form some semblance of a good 2nd line, we'd be a lot better up front. Adding depth at D won't matter if we can't score more than 1-2 goals a game.
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Re: Sedins for Heatley + more?

Post by the toucan kid »

If we go after any RFA/UFA this year, I'd like it to be a true sniper to go with the Sedins (after they're signed of course).
Is there such a thing? There's really no rhyme or reason as to who clicks with the Sedins. I'm pretty much resigned to just letting Burrows or whoever fill the role, because I truly don't think that the Sedins are willing or able to turn their third winger into a 50 goal guy. I'd put the money on the second line.
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Re: Sedins for Heatley + more?

Post by Island Nucklehead »

the toucan kid wrote:
If we go after any RFA/UFA this year, I'd like it to be a true sniper to go with the Sedins (after they're signed of course).
Is there such a thing? There's really no rhyme or reason as to who clicks with the Sedins. I'm pretty much resigned to just letting Burrows or whoever fill the role, because I truly don't think that the Sedins are willing or able to turn their third winger into a 50 goal guy. I'd put the money on the second line.
You know Toucan, if we keep agreeing with eachother things are going to get mighty boring around here...

There's no reason to write off Burrows at this point in time. Adding a bonafide scorer would be fantastic, but he should play on the second/1B line. I can't fathom a scenario where Demitra-Kesler-Burrows is going to get enough goals to qualify as secondary scoring.

The way AV juggles his lines, whoever we get will probably get a crack with the twins in some capacity, but like the Sundin experiment, any addition should be made in the hopes of creating a secondary threat behind the Sedins.

I don't doubt for a second that Heatley could get 50 playing with the twins, but when factoring in the loss of Burrows' prodcution playing elsewhere, if Heatley (or player X) can get 35-40 on line 2 while Burrows scores 15 more than normal playing with the Sedins, we're in better shape than a one-line monster.
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Re: Sedins for Heatley + more?

Post by dr.dork »

Island Nucklehead wrote:
the toucan kid wrote: Is there such a thing? There's really no rhyme or reason as to who clicks with the Sedins. I'm pretty much resigned to just letting Burrows or whoever fill the role, because I truly don't think that the Sedins are willing or able to turn their third winger into a 50 goal guy. I'd put the money on the second line.
You know Toucan, if we keep agreeing with eachother things are going to get mighty boring around here...
I agree too.

But if I start agreeing with Farhan, I've been drinking. :drink:
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Re: Sedins for Heatley + more?

Post by Canuck-One »

Some of these posts are unbelievable. The Sedins in tandem are so far beyond Heatley that Ottawa would wet themselves with glee if MG ever offered such a one sided deal. The league might not even allow it, it would be so one sided. Both of them out scored Heatley, both of them are better two way players and both of them are sure as hell better defensively. The only thing I would offer Ottawa would be a package of a first and a prospect, that's it, nothing more. In fact I would be hard pressed to offer that for a Prima Donna getting 7.5 a year, who is crying about ice time. He sounds like a dressing room cancer, me, me, me. We would be better off to try to sign Gaborik to a long term contract and save the players and picks. No thanks to Heatley, he just has too much baggage.
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Re: Sedins for Heatley + more?

Post by Island Nucklehead »

Canuck-One wrote:Some of these posts are unbelievable. The Sedins in tandem are so far beyond Heatley that Ottawa would wet themselves with glee if MG ever offered such a one sided deal. The league might not even allow it, it would be so one sided. Both of them out scored Heatley, both of them are better two way players and both of them are sure as hell better defensively. The only thing I would offer Ottawa would be a package of a first and a prospect, that's it, nothing more. In fact I would be hard pressed to offer that for a Prima Donna getting 7.5 a year, who is crying about ice time. He sounds like a dressing room cancer, me, me, me. We would be better off to try to sign Gaborik to a long term contract and save the players and picks. No thanks to Heatley, he just has too much baggage.
Well considering the Sedin's will be worth somewhere in the range of a $12M cap hit, you might think Ottawa would think it through. I agree that both Sedins are better than Heatley alone, but when you have another $4.5M in cap space it might mean getting someone else. Savard and Bergeron both make $5M or less, and I think a Savard-Heatley tandem could out-score the Sedins, as well as provide a more flexible line up.

I agree about Heatley's two-way play vs. the Sedins. He's a scorer, and a damn good one. Plunk him somewhere from the top of the circles down and he's dangerous, but he's not going to win a Selke. He's a pure scorer, so you know what you're getting from him.

I don't want to touch Gaborik, but I agree that the money/players/picks are better served elsewhere.

There's a lot of risk doing such a make-over, and unless we can't get the Sedins signed, there's very little reason to hope or think that it should happen.
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Re: Sedins for Heatley + more?

Post by Tukaram »

Not gonna happen.
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