WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

Post Reply
User avatar
Cornuck
Moderator & MVP
Moderator & MVP
Posts: 8197
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:39 am
Location: Everywhere

Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Cornuck » Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:34 pm

Oddly enough, I'll agree with some of you say. Yes, a team should be 'up' for every game - that's what they're paid to do. I also think that a team should have the guts to put away an (on paper) inferior team.

The reality is that the Canucks historically will stink against a low ranking team, then put on a clinic against a powerhouse. Why is that? Who knows, but it is human nature to lighten up for those days you don't need to be on your game.

Right now, you could say that this team has lost its identity. They've lost their captain and franchise player, they have a HOF'er coming in, a new goalie, and a revolving door on the 4th line. In other words they have a lot of excuses and right now can't find a way to win.

Tonight's game will show if they can pull it all together and become a team for 60 minutes. You know they'll be up for it, and whether or no it's their 'true character', it will show us that they still have it in them to put a decent game together (which they haven't in a while).

They're still playing .500 hockey and strange as it may be, that seems to be good enough right now in the west. So win tonight could help build the confidence that they need to get above .500 and not be too far down when their captain returns.
2019-20 - Playoff Bound

User avatar
the toucan kid
CC Legend
Posts: 3923
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:50 am

Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by the toucan kid » Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:55 pm

Now Cornuck, Naslund has not been the identity of this team for years. Luongo superceded him a month after he walked in, and sadly, Naslund tucked his tail between his legs and became a shadow. This team's identity may be missing because Luongo isn't in net, that might be a better case to make, but losing points to Atlanta and St. Louis (like Farhan said) is truly concerning. I didn't care a lick about the slaughter last time we played the Sharks, but the point in Atlanta and the collapse last night was infuriating.

User avatar
Cornuck
Moderator & MVP
Moderator & MVP
Posts: 8197
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:39 am
Location: Everywhere

Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Cornuck » Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:06 pm

the toucan kid wrote:Now Cornuck, Naslund has not been the identity of this team for years. Luongo superceded him a month after he walked in, and sadly, Naslund tucked his tail between his legs and became a shadow. This team's identity may be missing because Luongo isn't in net, that might be a better case to make, but losing points to Atlanta and St. Louis (like Farhan said) is truly concerning. I didn't care a lick about the slaughter last time we played the Sharks, but the point in Atlanta and the collapse last night was infuriating.
That was the case I was making - they are missing their Captain and Franchise player (Luongo on both counts).

And yes it sucks horribly to watch this team year in and year out piss away points to lessor teams. Or piss away playoff spots to teams like the Kings.

As for not caring about being slaughtered? You should be - it showed a complete breakdown - I'd be worried about that.
2019-20 - Playoff Bound

User avatar
the toucan kid
CC Legend
Posts: 3923
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:50 am

Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by the toucan kid » Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:11 pm

Sorry Cornuck, that was a brain fart on my part... goalie is the captain... still doesn't compute.

Remember it was coming off ridiculous travel, against a team that never loses at home, and is not in our division. If you're going to implode, and everyone does a few times a year, that is more or less the ideal game.

User avatar
Sid Dithers
CC 1st Team All-Star
Posts: 952
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:34 pm
Location: Surrey, B.C.

Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Sid Dithers » Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:30 pm

Farhan Lalji wrote:
Cornuck wrote:
I'm in that camp too, but a game against a juggernaut like the Sharks will test the team's character.
Oddly enough, I'll have to disagree here.

I think the TRUE test of a team's character, is when they DON'T necessarily "have to win"....or "prove themselves." It's when a team DOESN'T have to 'prove themselves' and take care of the bottom feeders, is when a team's true character is tested in my opinion (obvious exception to this is any post-season game obviously).
Some of you people amaze me.

Farhan, I get what you're saying. But if the Canucks can't beat San Jose at least once in a while, what chance do they ultimately have to beat them in a series? There are no teams like St. Louis in the play-offs.

You want the Canucks to 'go for it', yet are absolutely willing to let them off the hook when they can't beat a top team like San Jose.

Am I missing something here?

Teams like San Jose are the ones they're going to have to beat to knock on Stanley's door. Is it not important the Canucks start proving them can beat San Jose? Let alone also-rans like St. Louis? If the Canucks can't beat San Jose once during the regular season, how the hell are they going to do it 4 out of 7 times in a series? Excuses don't work, results tell the tale, and theories count for nothing. And the Canucks are proving to be nothing but pretenders.

There comes a time when you either shit or get off the pot. If the Canucks cannot demonstrate they can beat everybody at least sporadically, then they are just a mediocre team. Come to think of it, that's all they are.
AraChniD iS stoOpiDz!

Farhan Lalji

Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Farhan Lalji » Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:42 pm

Sid Dithers wrote:
Farhan Lalji wrote:
Cornuck wrote:
I'm in that camp too, but a game against a juggernaut like the Sharks will test the team's character.
Oddly enough, I'll have to disagree here.

I think the TRUE test of a team's character, is when they DON'T necessarily "have to win"....or "prove themselves." It's when a team DOESN'T have to 'prove themselves' and take care of the bottom feeders, is when a team's true character is tested in my opinion (obvious exception to this is any post-season game obviously).
Some of you people amaze me.

Farhan, I get what you're saying. But if the Canucks can't beat San Jose at least once in a while, what chance do they ultimately have to beat them in a series? There are no teams like St. Louis in the play-offs.

You want the Canucks to 'go for it', yet are absolutely willing to let them off the hook when they can't beat a top team like San Jose.

Am I missing something here?
Unfortunately, I believe you are. :P

1) When the Canucks played San Jose that last time, it was their 3rd game in 4th night. Although I was still greatly disappointed by their effort, I give them a little (key word - LITTLE) bit of slack.

2) I never once said or implied that the Canucks shouldn't be able to beat a team like San Jose once in awhile. I wholeheartedly agree with you there.

3) Although injuries are a part of the game, we don't really know how the TRUE Canucks would measure up against the San Jose Sharks. We won't know this (in my opinion) until we have Luongo and a non-rusty Sundin back.

The point I was trying to make (I think you got this but I'll re-iterate), is that any team can play well when they are expected to. Obviously - the Canucks usually battle hard against the top-tier teams. Look at how we've done against Detroit this year. And yes - it is a sign of character to "rise up" when you NEED to play well...as I suspect that Canucks will do tonight.

However - what separates the 'men' from the 'boys' in my opinion, is your ability to take bottom feeders to the woodshed.

Last year for instance - Nashville (a very mediocre team) fed on teams like St. Louis and Columbus in their last 10 games and got into the playoffs. Canucks on the other hand, shit the bed....and even lost to a NON-playoff team in the Edmonton Oilers in their most crucial game of the season.

Anyway - that's sort of what I was trying to say. ANY top 15-top 17 team can play pissed off and out-play a top-tier team on any given night...and perhaps even spank them. I just think it says MORE about a team's character (or lack thereof) when they "shit the bed" against bottom feeders on numerous occassions....as we've done this year.

User avatar
DonCherry4PM
MVP
MVP
Posts: 1442
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 10:27 pm

Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by DonCherry4PM » Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:49 pm

Farhan Lalji wrote:-ON PAPER, this team is the WCE era (01-04) combined with our 06/07 line-up. At 90%+ health, we are as deadly up front as the WCE era was, and we're just as solid in net and 'D' as the 06/07 line-up was.

It seems to me, that the only ones being IMPATIENT here, are the people that are laying judgment on this team WITHOUT taking Luongo and a non-rusty Sundin into consideration.
ON PAPER, Ottawa is a great team. ON PAPER Tampa should be a goal scoring machine. Enough said.

And no I am not being impatient. I am just withholding my judgment on whether we should make a push for the cup until I see what the team looks like with Sundin and Luongo in form. From my understanding, though it may be lacking, that is not IMPATIENT.
Farhan Lalji wrote: If Luongo leaves this team after next season and we see Raymond and Hodgson develop......seriously....what's the fucking point?!? All you're doing is re-arranging assets. Same pile...different shit. Aren't Canuck fans sick of this same old story? Again - look at how "different" our 06/07 team was from 01/04. Almost the polar opposite. Look at our end result.

Compare our 05/06 team to our 07/08. Again...almost the polar opposite in terms of styles and strengths. Look at the end result.
If Luongo won't resign next year you trade him at deadline for a pile of young talent and acquire assets. Same goes for other players. The same old story would be the Canucks losing assets and making stupid trades at deadline that deplete our assets. The same old story would be losing players like Jovo for nothing. I can't be sure, but I don't see Gillis as someone who is willing to let this happen. He may, but I think he has been pretty savvy so far with his treatment of the team's assets.

Farhan Lalji wrote:Bottom line? I am NOT saying that the Canucks should sacrifice the farm (depending on what your definition of that is). Hodgson is a keeper. What I am saying however, is that having Luongo, a solid 'D' (when healthy), tremendous depth at center, and a team that is efficient on both offense and defense (when healthy) should not be disregarded.

If the Canucks literally are one player away from being a serious contender, then fuck Raymond and a 1st if they can bring us "that guy."

My whole point is based on your last sentence. "If" is the big question, and I have not seen enough evidence to judge whether this team is in fact one player from being in the top three or four in the league. "If" it is and "if" you can acquire a player that you feel fits the bill and puts us over the top then, by all means, make a trade, otherwise hold off and don't iterate the same old mistakes.
Invincibility lies in oneself.
Vincibility lies in the enemy.

- Sun Tzu

Farhan Lalji

Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Farhan Lalji » Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:51 pm

DonCherry4PM wrote: My whole point is based on your last sentence. "If" is the big question, and I have not seen enough evidence to judge whether this team is in fact one player from being in the top three or four in the league.
Fair enough.....but consider this:

Before Luongo went down, the Canucks were 8 games over .500.....at around the 19th or 20th game mark. Heck - half of their losses at that time came around one bad stretch.

So - when Luongo comes back to the team....we essentially have the exact same team. Plus Sundin.

Worst case Scenario - Sundin is a bust and as result, the Canucks play at the same level as they did before Luongo went down (i.e. 8 games over .500 at around the 19th or 20th game mark).

Best Case Scenario - Sundin plays like his "old self" (or "young self" depending on your perspective). That Sundin + the Canucks we saw earlier this season = ??????

Yes...
-Nothing is for certain
-Playing hockey in April is a LOT different than playing hockey in October/November.

Still - I DO think it's fair to make an 'educated guess' based on what we saw from the Canucks before the Luongo injury. That team was top 5 in the league.

dr.dork
CC Hall of Fan Member
Posts: 1771
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:13 am
Location: Vancouver

Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by dr.dork » Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:17 pm

Farhan Lalji wrote: As it relates to the Canucks - I have no doubt that they'll come out all pissed off tonight and give San Jose a good run for their money. However....that's not true character in my opinion. True character would've been last night....if the Canucks had shown the prosper respect to an NHL-level franchise in the St. Louis Blues....and had taken them to the woodshed. THAT would've been true character in my opinion. Teams like Detroit (for 10+ years running) almost NEVER lose those types of games.
Umm, Detroit is a top team so by definition they don't lose very much. But it is pretty easy to assume they are losing to teams that are worse then they are. Same with San Jose.

Farhan Lalji

Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Farhan Lalji » Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:07 pm

dr.dork wrote:
Umm, Detroit is a top team so by definition they don't lose very much. But it is pretty easy to assume they are losing to teams that are worse then they are. Same with San Jose.
Ummm....a large part of the reason why Detroit is a top team, is because they consistently take care of the lower-end teams. Do they have a few stinkers? Yes....all teams do. However - I would imagine that this rarely occurs.

No offense dr.dork, but I don't really understand the point of your post. :?:

Obviously - Detroit technically loses to teams that are "ranked lower than them" (since they have the 3rd highest point total in the NHL), but I guess I'm talking about losing to teams that are ranked 20th to 30th. Detroit very rarely lose to teams like that. The Canucks on the other hand, seem to have made it a ritual....and possibly get off on it. :?:

User avatar
Mikodat
CC 1st Team All-Star
Posts: 604
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:58 am
Location: Victoria
Contact:

Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Mikodat » Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:50 pm

Worst case Scenario - Sundin is a bust and as result, the Canucks play at the same level as they did before Luongo went down (i.e. 8 games over .500 at around the 19th or 20th game mark).
I fully expect the Sedin's production to drop off in the last 20 games.. same as last year and same in every " tough " game we play. My hope of this team making a strong playoff run is solely based on the addition of a Sundin line.. other than that.. I expect much the same result as in previous years.. Either we miss the playoffs or don't go deep... Last nights game was embarrassing to watch.. Where is Keenan when ya need him? A few of the players need to ride the pine for a few games.. ( ala Naslund in Keenan era )... or maybe a suitable reward would be for the whole team to have to watch a rerun of that game about 10 times? Sure I fully expect a much better effort against the Sharks tonight but without Luongo it will take a small miracle to win ( maybe Sanford standing on his head? ).. Unless this team digs in and finds a desire to win.. each and every game.. it isn't going anywhere.
Nuck fan Since 1970 and still no Cup :(

User avatar
Sid Dithers
CC 1st Team All-Star
Posts: 952
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:34 pm
Location: Surrey, B.C.

Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Sid Dithers » Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:18 pm

Mikodat wrote:Unless this team digs in and finds a desire to win.. each and every game.. it isn't going anywhere.
Bingo. It just appears as if they look at the upcoming schedule and pick their spots. What ever happened to the idea of going out every game determined to play your best with the goal of winning? The Canucks are all over the map with their preparation or lack thereof.
AraChniD iS stoOpiDz!

Farhan Lalji

Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Farhan Lalji » Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:22 pm

Mikodat wrote:Either we miss the playoffs or don't go deep..
Fair enough,

Here is what I think though:

-If you think back to 06/07, Luongo was absolutely exceptional. The problem however, was that the Canucks couldn't score worth a lick and their Power Play was atrocious. The twins were completely shut down and the rest of the team was shut down as well (give or take, a few moments of brilliance from Naslund and Linden).

-If Luongo and Sundin are heading into the playoffs with this team, we should still get the same level of goaltending (I'll assume at this point that Luongo's groin will stay the same). Here is the most important point to consider however: Even if Mats Sundin is a COMPLETE bust and sucks to millionth degree, it will still free up the twins....and it will also free up the Kesler line.

It's the "Mount Vesuvius" mentality (i.e. just because Vesuvius has been dormant for many years doesn't mean that you should go build a house up there). Similarly, even if Sundin is a complete and utter shell (and for the record, I don't think this will be the case....come playoff time), opposing teams top checkers and d'men will NOT have the liberty of ignoring him. Either way - either the Sedin line will be "free'er"...or the Sundin line will be "free'er".

Unlike 06/07, one line will NOT consistently get the top 'd' men and checkers.

Lastly - With Sundin here, the Kesler line will be able to solely focus on shutting down the opposition. Any goals scored by the checking line will be icing on the cake (just as it was at the start of the season). There won't be an expectation from the Kesler line to provide a bulk of the secondary scoring.

And to add to this, Gillis will almost *undoubtedly* add another piece with his cap space (i.e. whatever he feels that the team is lacking).

It's for all of these reasons that I truly believe that the Canucks are the clear cut 4th best team in the league (or dare I say....higher?) when this team is 90%+ healthy. This team is 06/07' plus more. This team, when healthy, has none of the defincies that the WCE era from 01-04.

User avatar
Mikodat
CC 1st Team All-Star
Posts: 604
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:58 am
Location: Victoria
Contact:

Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Mikodat » Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:22 pm

Farhan... I am not comparing to the WCE era.. those teams didn't go anywhere.. My comparison is the 2 teams that did go to the big game.. the Stanley finals.. 82 and 94 teams. Both had exceptional leadership.. Linden in 94.. Smyl and Tiger Williams in 82.. I don't expect the Sedins to play or lead in that way and do have hopes that Sundin just might have enough pride and hunger to want the cup enough to play ballz to the wall hockey.. Something this team has been missing for a long time.. Mitchell and Ohlund show it once in a while.. Kesler line too..

back to the thread.. Yeah if the team is moving in the right direction ... bring in rentals.. Bowmeister and a winger.. A run at the cup would be worth dropping Raymond or Hansen plus prospects and picks... Too bad Shanahan is signing for Devils.. he might of been the missing winger and a UFA..
Nuck fan Since 1970 and still no Cup :(

Farhan Lalji

Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Farhan Lalji » Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:22 pm

Points taken Mikodat,

Just one more thought:

Although I mentioned it in my initial post in this thread, I'll say it again. Perhaps the Canucks don't need another HUGE piece. Instead - perhaps the Canucks can add a few minor...yet highly specialized/effective players for certain roles.

In 06/07, the Canucks had the top PK in the league. Josh Green played a large role in that. What's he up to nowadays? If he's still in the league, why not make a minor trade for him?

What about another enforcer? (although if Rypien comes back and is healthy, maybe this isn't necessary?).

Post Reply