WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

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the toucan kid
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Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by the toucan kid » Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:48 pm

This team is a few years away from being in the basement either way as I see it. The only way I can buy your argument Sid is if you propose a tear down starting right now, if we move Luongo and Ohlund and the Sedins THEN maybe we'll have a young core to build around. As it is now, we either make a run for it, then tear it down and rebuild or just tear it down and rebuild starting now. I actually think that this is a Top 5 team in this league when everything comes together, but maybe I'm in the minority. Yes there are the Sharks and the Red Wings, but other than those guys we're as good as anyone.
Last edited by the toucan kid on Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Sid Dithers » Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:09 pm

the toucan kid wrote:This team is a few years away from being in the basement either way as I see it. The only way I can buy your argument Sid is if you propose a tear down starting right now, if we move Luongo and Ohlund and the Sedins THEN maybe we'll have a young core to build around.
I said that from Day 1 after last season imploded. This feels like nothing but a wasted year, sorry to say.
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Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by MarkMM » Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:24 am

Agree/disagree with you both.

This is not a "wasted" year, while Luongo does have more to prove, you do have to make educated guesses and given his raw talent, I think it's safe to say he is a goaltender who can at least be considered a Stanley Cup contender, very few would ever disagree with that. When healthy, our defense is one of the deepest and most well-rounded, they have to be on top of their game to be at that level, but that goes without saying if you want to win the Cup. And our forwards are a pretty impressive collection, one of the best third-lines, with Johnson back, a useful fourth line with Hordichuk and whoever they throw on there, the Sedins are not useless, as much as some like to poke fun at them, if we put them on the trade market, I think the reaction of other GM's would likely show the degree of respect they've earned. Are they elite? No. Top line? Arguably. With Sundin, though, and a collection of other assets (Raymond, Wellwood, Demitra, Pyatt and Bernier), we have enough players who have the ability to elevate their game, and in today's salary-cap league, that's the best you can hope for, any team now will always have some holes and question marks, the champions will be those who can get their players to elevate their game. So if the case you're making is that the Canucks aren't ready this year because our goalie is elite but hasn't gone far yet, our defense is deep but has some question-marks, and our forwards have some solid assets and some question-marks, then you're going to be waiting a long time 'cause with a cap, this might be as good as it gets. And if all we get this year is a few rounds into the playoffs, then isn't that getting our younger players the playoff experience you say they so badly need to be contenders in the future?

At the same time, let's not exaggerate how good things are and make it look like this is a now or never situation, it isn't, and it never is. A good rule in politics that applies here is that things are never as good as they seem, and never as bad. As promising as things are with Sundin and Luongo, as well as the Twins, Kesler, Mitchell, Ohlund, Salo, etc. all on the same team at the same time, a smart manager realizes that chance plays a role, we're only one bad injury to Luongo or Sundin, or a shit-the-bed performance from forwards, or a recurrence of injuries to our defense, to knock us out of the playoffs. Don't pretend that we can manage a Stanley Cup win just by loading up on talent, the most talented, experienced and deepest team does not always win, that may suck, but it's true. The best you can do is get your team into the playoffs without any fatal flaws that rules them out from the start, and then do that consistently enough that if they aren't fortunate enough to avoid injuries and raise their games to win that time, then at least they've gained experience that will enable them to do it next time, perhaps with deeper talent that's coming up in the ranks. While our prospect pipeline isn't deep, it's begun to show value (Kesler, Burrows, Edler, sort of Hansen and Raymon, and now Hodgson, possibly Schneider and Grabner), and we should continue to build it, in case we're that one-injury away from blowing this season.

I personally think this is the best chance we've had in years, but don't pretend it will be our only one, and certainly don't manage the team that way. I actually would be comfortable going into the playoffs with this team, if enough things go well, I think we have a genuine shot. If the right opportunity comes up to bolster the team for "free" (UFA signing, waiver pick-up, whatever), do it, sure, Josh Green or otherwise. If it's something that will hurt our future...well, we've already sacrificed long-term for a short-term gamble in two 2nd round picks for Bernier, here's hoping that he turns into something and we keep him long-term, but don't forget we've already taken a mortgage on our future to improve this year's forwards, if the gamble doesn't work out, ouch, but it's not like we haven't already made a move there, and I wouldn't trade anything more unless it was an unreal deal.

Hodgson, Grabner, Raymond, Hansen, Kesler, Burrows, Edler, Schneider...it's a decent young group to build around and build further, so keep our draft picks, keep these guys, and do our best to lock up Luongo and the Sedins for the long-term, and win or not this year, we'll be contenders at least, and so long as we keep adding to our young corps, we can be contenders in the future as well.
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Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Jovorock » Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:40 am

Good conversation here guys, Gillis is going for it this year and hasn't sold the farm yet. Why else would he of signed Sundin. We have room under the cap to add so I don't think he has to sell the farm.

Hodgson is the only non touch prospect we have. If we don't sign Louongo long term then Schneider is the second non touch prospect.

When some of you say we have to add a PP d-man, should we think about a goalie? The way Lou was walking on the Trevor retirment night makes me think of a goalie. I have ripped up my groin, couldn't do much for a month. But I walked a lot better than Roberto that night. Sandford has done good, Schneider isn't ready he needs another year in the A.

I think Lou is more than a month away. :?
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Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by ClamRussel » Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:01 pm

Sid Dithers wrote:
Farhan Lalji wrote:2) With a superstar goalie (or a goalie that gets 'hot' and plays like a superstar), ANYTHING is possible. Vancouver 94', Washington 98', Buffalo 99', Carolina 02', Anaheim 03', Calgary 04', and Edmonton 06' are all great examples of this. When Colorado and Detroit won their cups in 96' and 97' respectively, those teams also didn't have many players that had tons of Stanley Cup experience (if at all).
Anyone can sing the "If Our Goalie Gets Hot (anything can happen)" song. All 30 teams can sing that one.
Ya and anyone can win the lotto.
You've got to admit though the odds are greater when you have a top tier goaltender.

The teams Farhan mentioned who had goalies playing over their heads never won the Cup except for Giguere and Ward. All the rest of them lost in the finals. A goalie fluking out can only take you so far w/o the support. Having a top goaltender who catches fire w/ a less than great team in front of him can do some serious damage = just look at all those Cups the Devils won. They couldn't have done it w/o Brodeur. In terms of skaters those teams weren't any better than the Canucks imo.
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Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Sid Dithers » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:11 am

ClamRussel wrote:In terms of skaters those teams weren't any better than the Canucks imo.
C'mon Clam, you know better than that. When did the Canucks ever line-up a duo like Neidermayer and Stevens?
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Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by ClamRussel » Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:46 am

Sid Dithers wrote:
ClamRussel wrote:In terms of skaters those teams weren't any better than the Canucks imo.
C'mon Clam, you know better than that. When did the Canucks ever line-up a duo like Neidermayer and Stevens?
I was referring more in terms of the forwards.
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Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by dr.dork » Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:45 am

This is an interesting thread, but the tradeoff is "at what cost". If it is only dollars it is a moot point. If we are mortgaging our future, then just say no. At this point we are not good enough to trade away our future nor bad enough to trade away our present.

However, if we can spend money to make ourselves better for a low draft pick then it is a nobrainer.

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Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by the toucan kid » Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:08 pm

I echo my previous statements, WHAT future? We have three prospects and none (including Hodgson) project to being elite NHL players. There's nothing to build towards, either you want to rip it apart dr. dork and ditch our core at the deadline or make a run for it (acquiring a top 6 forward can be done without dealing Hodgson or Schneider, I believe) and being willing to part with Raymond, Grabner, Hansen etc. and high picks.

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Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by KeslerianOne » Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:24 pm

hello canucks corner nation.....first time poster here. I have been reading alot of the threads here, and am ecstatic that this type of discussion site is available. I hope to be able to keep up with you brain's on here. if I seem to lack the spark of the rest of ya's just remember......I'm just trying to be a die-hard fan like the rest of ya's.

with respect to the topic of discussion on here, I AM hoping that Gillis makes a BOLD move to get a hired sniper to compliment Sundin. A big named player in the mold of a Kovalchuk, Kovalev, Horton, St.louis. would just make this team just sic. IMO to find a suitor to take Salo off of our hands. a "tier 2" type pp Dman in the mold of a Corvo, Kuba,etc...

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Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Mozy » Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:16 pm

I'm not sure if its been mentioned, I know it wasnt on the starting list but heres how I see it. We have about 3 milll in cap space which when you prorate that for the remainder of the season works out to be something like a 12 million dollar salary at the start.

At first I wanted Gaborik but he seems to having an awful year with injuries so I got to thinking. The usual cellar dweller dealers seem to be out of players that would be worth it. Phoenix who seem to be semi-in-the-thick of things will probably trying to get a rental as well as that 8th place spot and try squeak into the playoffs so Phoenix, one of the few teams with people to deal at the deadline probably will be trying to bring someone in.

Dallas is the only team that comes to mind as a new dealer just because they were off to such a bad start and seemed dooomed to end their year at the bottom of the standings. IF they don't turn around their season they might be a team to look towards to be dealing, who we'd poach I'm not so sure.

My suggestion would be however to go after Ilya Kovalchuk. He's obviously not happy in Atlanta (to be honest I'm surprised he's stuck around there so long) and he fits the big guy roll we need to play with the Sedins. He'd be looking for big money, and for once we have the cap space. He loves to shoot, the Sedins love to pass, this seems like the combo we've been looking for. Dump Demitra to the second line with Mats and Welly, and I think we'd have a solid two two lines. He's a guy that was a Rocket Richard Trophy winner so he knows how to score. Don't see why we shouldn't offer something to Atlanta. They seem to be looking to "re-build" every year and seem to be heading nowhere fast. Perhaps throw them a deal that includes Cory Schneider (lets be honest guys, if Luongo re-signs, we're merely stunting this kids growth if we kept him here as a back up. He's going to be a starter some day, he might as well get the chance sooner rather than later.) and some picks or prospects and I think they'd bite.
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Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Island Nucklehead » Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:19 pm

The ultimate question is, WHEN are we good enough to win? I don't think anyone is going to be a better favorite than the Sharks at this point. But how far removed are we from being an elite team? Next year, the year after? How many rookies/prospects will we really need/have space/patience for in the next couple years.

The window is obviously dependant on Luongo. Schneider is a good goalie and might be a quality starter down the road, but I would deal him in a heartbeat if we could get some tangible results for this year/next. He's not going to lead us to the cup, if anyone is, it'll be Lou. Since we're not willing to suck for several years like the Carolina's, Anaheims etc. we're going to have to be smart with where we spend our money and that's the key. Prospects will only take us so far.

Health is such a big factor, luck is as well. Right now, if Luongo was healthy and we iced the lineup we have currently with Sundin there is no reason we coudln't challenge for a berth in the Western final. We have goaltending, deep defense, solid checkers, team toughness and 4 potential first line players in Sedin, Sedin, Sundin and Demitra.

The only piece I would love to add would be some more North American gritty skill to our forwards. Sundin adds some of that big body presence, but I'd love to add a Morrow type player who can score the dirty goals we'll need in the playoffs. Getting Jason Arnott or Keith Tkachuk or someone of that ilk might not be great in 82 games, but the potential to augment playoff results with timely garbage goals could mean the difference between winning and losing a game 7.

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Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Cornuck » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:20 pm

Luongo, Sundin, 2 Sedins, Ohlund, Salo and a decent supporting cast. Yep - looks like one the best lineups we've had since the WCE was looking for a goalkeeper.

I don't mind clearing out some youth to pick up a couple of rentals. In fact, if we're healthy at the deadline, I'd be pissed at Gillis if he didn't make some moves.
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Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Mozy » Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:49 pm

Cornuck wrote:I don't mind clearing out some youth to pick up a couple of rentals. In fact, if we're healthy at the deadline, I'd be pissed at Gillis if he didn't make some moves.

Gillis has proved that he's aggressive in getting what he wants. I'd be shocked if he didnt make some move at the deadline. He's no Nonis.
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Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by the toucan kid » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:38 pm

How the pipe dream of Sedin-Sedin-Hejduk? Sure Colorado isn't dead yet, and sure they aren't likely to deal with us, but that might be the ideal for the twins.

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