Would you trade the Sedins' AND Luongo if you're REBUILDING?

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Soapy
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Post by Soapy »

If you were building a team, would Luongo, Ohlund & the Sedins be a nice start? At the deadline the CANUCKS will get a RANSOM for Salo. They probably won't be able to re-sign him. We will get sweet prospects for Salo. Every playoff team will covet the booming slapshot from the point. Other UFA's that might attract attention for a playoff team are Bulis or Linden. We would only get picks for these two.
As for our prospects, they are starting to look good. No need to sell the farm eh Farhan.

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Post by Farhan Lalji »

Mr. Bure #10 wrote:No wonder no one ever wants to play for Vancouver. I am sorry Farhan Lalji but that has to be one of the dumbest posts ever.


While I appreciate your honestly, you have to realize that I clearly said, "I personally don't have a definitive answer as of yet, but the idea DOES intrigue me. Hence - I'd like to play devil's advocate in this thread."
We are already in a rebuilding phase why would you dump your whole team for a bunch of kids with no guarantee that they will be top notch pros.
There are no guarantees. However - you can't ignore the fact that the Sedin twins AND Luongo would land us quite a bit of value (be it in the form of top draft picks, prospects, etc.). Like you said - there are no guarantees.....but couldn't deals like these give us one of the deepest farms in the NHL?

Also - it's not like the Canucks would be ridding themselves of superstars. For instance....lets say you trade the Sedin twins and Luongo for top 1st round picks, prospects, etc., etc. ON TOP OF THIS, the Canucks now have freed up cap space. With this freed up cap space, the Canucks can then SIGN superstaresque players in the offseason.

So basically....

Out of Vancouver
-Sedin Twins
-Luongo

In Vancouver
-Boatload of top end 1st rounders, prospects, etc. (from Luongo and Sedin trade)
-Signing of other superstars via free agency (cleared up cap space gives us the chance).

So in effect, the 13.5 mill that would've gone to the Sedin twins and Roberto Luongo.....now are spent elsewhere (presumably, on other players of equal value/salary). ON TOP OF THAT, the Canucks have high end draft picks, prospects, etc.

With all that in mind - you mean to tell me that this proposed scenario isn't even WORTH considering??!?!?!
Why would Nonis trade Ohlund, the Sedins and Luongo who are the foundations of this team? I can see Morrison & Cooke and possibly Naslund if the deal was right but that is it. The answer is not to dump the whole squad just because they are sitting at .500. Nonis needs to make 1 or 2 key trades at the deadline and possibly sign a key offensive free agent and the team will be back in the hunt.
The intent of this post wasn't too "dump everyone because we're only a .500 squad." I was merely suggesting an idea.....an idea based on the notion that creating a team in the offseason (under the CAP era) may not be all that difficult. With that in mind, I'm arguing that a team could literally trade away their star players for promising draft picks, prospects, etc., AND go out and sign a team of assumed equal value given the freed up cap space.

In a way - you could have your cake and eat it to.

Now - you and I BOTH know that.....

a) Teams GM's around the trade deadline tend to "overpay" for players. Come trade deadline time, sellers almost ALWAYS get the better of buyers. With that in mind, do you STILL think the notion of giving away Luongo and the Sedin twins is completely ridiculous?!?!?

b) Under the CAP era, all teams are limited within their budget. Therefore - if the Canucks LOSE 13.5 million dollars (in the form of Sedins and Luongo), it shouldn't be too hard to get other players of equal value. On TOP of that, the Canucks rape other teams of their top prospects, draft picks, etc.
I am personally sick of people calling for trades all the time, especially when I hear Luongo's name. He hasn't even played half a season and fans are calling for his head. Come on! Luongo isn't the problem, nor are the Sedins. It is the supporting cast not pulling their weight (excluding Bieksa). Teams that get better, tweak what they already have rather than sell the farm.
I never once implied that Luongo (or the Sedins') were a problem. Actually - I've been pretty impressed with all 3 players. All I'm saying, is that the VALUE the Canucks could get for these guys at the trade deadline could be absolutely unreal. ON TOP OF THAT, the Canucks could replace the 13.5 million saved on these guys....elsewhere.

Personally, Kesler is the biggest waste of $1.9 million that I have ever seen. He is awful and plays with no heart. He shouldn't even be getting $400K. I wish he was a Flyer.
I personally would have let Kesler walk in the summer.
Farhan please don't ever become GM of the Canucks.
I clearly said at the start of this thread that I would be playing "devil's advocate" here. I'm not even sure if *I* am a fan of my idea (and clearly stated that).

However - I do think it was worth discussing...and hence, I posted. Take a look at history.

Almost ALL buyers "overpay" at the trade deadline. More times than not, the seller usually gets the better end of the deal. On top of that, it shouldn't be too hard to replace "assets lost" under the CAP era. So - if the Canucks lost Luongo and the Sedin twins (13.5 million), that freed up 13.5 mill could be spent in the offseason anyways (presumably for other assets of close to or equal value).

Meanwhile on top of that, the Canucks (supposedly) get a large number of high end 1st rounders, prospects, etc., etc.
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Post by Island Nucklehead »

Considering that the Sedins went 2/3 overall in the draft, and are JUST hitting their potential...you would have to be an idiot of epic proportions to trade them for what will probably be lower draft picks...in effect, you're advocating we throw away the last 6 years of their development and start fresh. Not gonna fly buddy, this ain't Columbus, we don't have the luxury of flying under the radar until we're good enough to compete.

In any case, the "New NHL" has a roughly 3-5 year cycle. I think we're in year one of ours. So your policy would, in effect, waste an entire season and we would be even worse next year. At least at this stage I can honestly say I expect the team to go nowhere but up. I can say this because I expect that our cap situation will be better next year, should Nonis do the right thing and rid the team of Morrison and Cooke, and sign Kesler for less than a mil.

As for Luongo, all I can say is LOL! You're going to trade a superstar goalie, in his prime, for a draft pick or two?! Wow, I thought Jamesownzsam had some screwed up theories. If you were the GM I would LOVE to be on another team: "Yeah, so Farhan...I'll give you Steen, Coliacovo and my first rounder for Luongo." Yeah...right.

The only player I can see doing this for would be Naslund, due to his age and his salary, but even then, I want two roster players comming back in return, not would-be, could-be draft picks.

As far as I'm concerned this thread is stupid. We seem to be getting quite a few more of these this season. :? Anyways, the simple answer: NO.
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Post by Farhan Lalji »

canucks_fan2 wrote:are u guys messed up or something that is the dumbest thing i have ever heard of u wanna get rid of the team and build a new one like come on give them a break naslund ohlund and the sedins are the vancouver canucks u trade them all away u might as well sell the team to the states
I still think that in most cases, "buyers" tend to overpay at the trade deadline. In most cases, one can certainly argue that sellers tend to get the better of buyers.

(Look at how Burke ripped off Nonis last year for instance ;) ).

Regardless - the Canucks can get a TON of prospects, 1st rounders, and other youngsters who will very likely become stars in the future........if they traded Luongo, Sedin twins, Ohlund, Naslund, etc., etc.

ON TOP OF ALL THAT - the Canucks, with the FREED UP CAP SPACE......can then sign players of equal value in the offseason!!! (or am I completely missing something here?). In the CAP era, this is NOT a farfetched assumption to make.

So yes - the Canucks would be "naked" between the trade deadline and seasons' end (if my proposed idea ever took place), but they'd get players of equal value in the offseason....via signings. On top of that, they'd have a shitload of new prospects, draft picks, promising youngsters, etc., etc. (in case I never mentioned that! :shock: -)
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Post by canucks_fan2 »

i still think that dumb there is a chance there that it all could go way down south and we would be worse then we are right now,but i just want the team better but i want nazzy,ohly,the sedins,luongo.to all stay with the nucks and get a cup
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Post by Cornuck »

Farhan Lalji wrote:ON TOP OF ALL THAT - the Canucks, with the FREED UP CAP SPACE......can then sign players of equal value in the offseason!!! (or am I completely missing something here?). In the CAP era, this is NOT a farfetched assumption to make.
I think this is the plan the Bruins went with during the lockout - they cleaned out their roster hoping that they could rebuild with much cheaper salaries. They didn't seem to set the league on fire with all their new signings, and aren't doing much better this year.
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Post by tuzzi44 »

i would rather be a mediocre team than a terrible one. cleaning your team out for signing random players is hardly ever beneficial. it takes longer for the team to mesh and build a team identity (thus half of our probs this year).
AVERAGE TEAMS GET TO THE FINALS. this has happened many times. 2 yrs in a row, 8th place teams took 7 games to decide a winner. all the canucks need to do is squeeze in to the playoffs (which i dont think is going to be out of reach) and hope Luongo stays hot for a long playoff run.
BELIEVE.

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Post by Lancer »

You read nonis' comments in today's Province story, and it's sounding a lot like rebuilding. Developing your young players, not trading for short-term gain, etc... The problem there is some of our best players (ie-Naslund, Morrison and Ohlund) only have 2, maybe three more years left in them before they hit Roenick status (more reputation than ability). Luongo has three more years after this season and if this club doesn't compete, will he stick around for another contract? Didn't he sign here to be on a competitive team? The Sedins will likely be Canucks for their careers because who will put down such a large part of their cap-able salary into two players not named Crosby, Malkin or Ovechkin? Even so, they may fall prey to Sundin-itis in that by the time they become dominant (or as close as they'll get), nobody else on the team will be in the same stage of their careers. They may see the beginnings of a Buffalo-esque roll that we hope the Canucks will experience in four years' time and have maybe a two-year window to get the cup before they hit Roenick-land.

Even so, if we tank it and go into rebuilding mode (who would sign with us then??) we are looking at starting from scratch because by the time that mode starts panning out, anybody who's anybody on this team will be long gone. Like Farhan said, we're stuck in the middle. Drafting anywhere between 10 and 15th in the first round won't work unless there's plenty of DEEP drafts ahead and we get bold picks on top of sound scouting (a little too much to hope for given our recent history). How many of our current prospects can we realistically expect to make an impact in the next 2 years.

So how do we get around it? In this case, the lowered UFA age may help us. If Nonis is able to sign a couple of well-scouted "lotta-potential, but needs a new scene" to build up a younf UFA core while still keeping the Sedins and Luongo the Canucks could get out of their organizational rut. There's also the potential for drafting up for picks we want. Any other ideas outside of waiting for some late-round gems to turn this franchise around?
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Post by hehateme »

That wont work fans and GMs in Vancouver get to attached to players and wait till their are not worth anythng on the market.

Naslund will retire a Canuck and we will still suck.
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Post by Soapy »

I think the Nonis way will work. IN THEORY Its a short term turnover league now. We lose Salo & Linden at the trading deadline (if we are not in the hunt) We score huge with Salo & get a pick for Linden & build for next year.
Our 'new' core is still under contract...we have our new player from the Salo deal..++ picks from Salo/Linden...Our prospects are a year older & we have cap room.
We are a .500 team this year. If we squeak into the playoffs I'll be happy from an entertianment perspective. It's not a re- building year..we have some very good players in the right spots (except a big center) ......it's a building year.
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Post by JamesOwnzSam11 »

I would trade Luongo in a heartbeat.

The Sedins? No.

You won't get much at all for Naslund right now so no...even if he is the greatest canuck of all time.
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Post by Island Nucklehead »

You know James I have to agree with you on something. Naslund is the greatest Canuck of all time. He's much better than MESSier.
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Post by canucks_fan2 »

man james u are a retard trade luongo FOR WHAT this is what we have been wantin for 6 years is to find a stable golie that fits with the nucks and i think luongo is just the right fit so would u shut up about him already and go jerk off to ur messier poster
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Post by Farhan Lalji »

Soapy wrote:If you were building a team, would Luongo, Ohlund & the Sedins be a nice start? At the deadline the CANUCKS will get a RANSOM for Salo. They probably won't be able to re-sign him. We will get sweet prospects for Salo. Every playoff team will covet the booming slapshot from the point. Other UFA's that might attract attention for a playoff team are Bulis or Linden. We would only get picks for these two.
As for our prospects, they are starting to look good. No need to sell the farm eh Farhan.

http://www.canucks.com/subpage.asp?sectionID=685
I definitely agree that the Canucks would get great value for Sami Salo. As far as "selling the farm" goes, I don't know why you think I want to do that....considering that I have the polar opposite opinion (expressed in this thread).

If anything - I want to build the best farm in the NHL.
Farhan Lalji

Post by Farhan Lalji »

JamesOwnzSam11 wrote:
You won't get much at all for Naslund right now so no...even if he is the greatest canuck of all time.
Are you sure about that? Last year - Sergei Samsonov and Dwayne Roloson were worth 1st round picks. Eric Weinreich and Keith Carney were worth 2nd rounders I believe.

Never underestimate the horniness of buyers come trading deadline. ;)
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