Doug Mclean is ripping apart David Pratt live on air

[Kel]

If I remember it right, Pronger was traded to Edmonton from St Louis, and then after he was traded, he signed a contract extension with the Oilers. I am not sure if Pronger had the choice of taking a paycut to stay in St Louis, given that he was not a UFA, unless he was an RFA? Maybe he was an RFA and St Louis decided to trade him instead of giving him a qualifying offer? All we know is that he was traded and therefore it was not totally his choice to move to Edmonton.

Now people complain about the 5 year contract he signed, that he should honour his contract. There's no evidence he didn't give all his effort in Edmonton in order to have his trade request granted. He requested a trade, but he has not done what Bure had done (refused to play), so he technically has been fulfilling his contract obligations. Yes, he signed a contract with the Oilers, but the Oilers had the option to trade him without his consent, so it's not completely right to view the contract purely between the Oilers and Pronger. His contract remains in effect even when he's in Anaheim now, a different team than the one he signed with. (Thinking about it, it would be really funny if players were allowed to trade contracts too) Anyway, why does no team get criticized for breaking a contract when they trade away a player that they signed? If improving a team is a good reason, then why is improving a player's personal life not?

I think fans love their team so much that they are quite biased. As long as something helps their team, they like it, and if something doesn't help their team, they'll criticize.

[Fred]

lets be honest here the reason Pronger had to be moved was the Cap that was negoiated between the PLAYERS and the NHL. Pronger amonst others agreed to that deal. They also sign a document stating that they can be traded etc. It's not foisted on them by the clubs alone. The clubs have an overall contarct negoiated and signed by the people that amongst others Pronger put in place.

No one is forced to play in the NHL they do so freely and willingly and are paid exteremely well as a result. They are not in servitude they are free to leave when ever they choose BUT if they agree to stay and sign a contract(they negoliated) to that end then they should accept it, or Hell quit and make way for others that ouwld like to take. their place.

If I can shake a guys hand in business and agree to a multi million dollar deal and feel comfortable that he won't welch on the deal then so can a hockey player. These are not some little children being taken by the hand IMO

[Kel]

If I can shake a guys hand in business and agree to a multi million dollar deal and feel comfortable that he won't welch on the deal then so can a hockey player. These are not some little children being taken by the hand IMO

As I've said, Pronger has been honouring his contract. The fact that he requested a trade and Edmonton granted his request does not mean he has breached the contract. A contract specifies that the team has the right to trade, and Pronger suggested to the team that he would like to be traded. Only when Edmonton refuses to trade and Pronger refuses to play can you say that Pronger has breached his NHL contract. If reports are accurate, Pronger has made the request months before the trade and played many games for the Oilers (and did so well) to fulfill his contract obligations while waiting for a trade.

[Fred]

Not only do i understand the consequences of denying to trade an athelete becomes unworksble. It divids the team , it forms in to a cancer and Kevein Lowe being no one dummy understod that point. Either keep a cancer that likely brings down his team or resport to surgery. The intent and the thrust of the contract was broken as was the spirit of the contract breached maybe not in an academic term but most certainly the spirit of the contract. Hey academics and lawyer use weasel words to justify a position, the commom person just expect honesty and decency ,...... and keep your wod. Maybe honour is an old fashioned concept

[Kel]

So when a team trades away a player who just signed a long term deal (Hossa), the team is being honest and decent, but when a player requests a trade after signing a long term deal (but still gives 100% on ice when with the team), he breaks the spirit of the contract and is being dishonest and indecent? At least Pronger thought he'd play for Edmonton when he signed, and played for a season. Ottawa never thought about keeping Hossa when they signed him. In fact, Hossa looked like a fool when he said he's happy to have signed to stay with the team, moments before a trade was announced.

[nuxfanindallas]

I think this thread was originally about Pratt and Maclean, so I wanted to ask if anyone knew why John Garrett refuses to go on the Team? He was mentioned as one of the poll question options (with Mather and Burke)

[Fred]

As you have so succinctly put it they have done no wrong. The players and the NHl have a formal agreement that the players are aware of ie during the course of this contract you may and indeed frequently are traded. The players states yes I am aware of that and the contract goes ahead. If on the other hand the players wants a clause stating during the coarse of this contract I may want to refuse to play for this club and I will demand to be moved to one of your comepenators. Then guess what he should have had that clause entered in to the contract. he didn't because he new his value would take a dive. he tried to maximise his value and after in this case visiting Edmonton (him and his wife) and agrred to the contract clauses,l he then within less than 1 year tells them hey get me outta here, move me to another club who will pay me the same cash. And I bet no matter how long he looked there would be no mention of this being an opition.

[Kel]

As you have so succinctly put it they have done no wrong. The players and the NHl have a formal agreement that the players are aware of ie during the course of this contract you may and indeed frequently are traded. The players states yes I am aware of that and the contract goes ahead. If on the other hand the players wants a clause stating during the coarse of this contract I may want to refuse to play for this club and I will demand to be moved to one of your comepenators. Then guess what he should have had that clause entered in to the contract. he didn't because he new his value would take a dive. he tried to maximise his value and after in this case visiting Edmonton (him and his wife) and agrred to the contract clauses,l he then within less than 1 year tells them hey get me outta here, move me to another club who will pay me the same cash. And I bet no matter how long he looked there would be no mention of this being an opition.

I know this is getting really long, but let me have some final words. You made it sound like Pronger did something that no team had encountered before. It's been done numerous times that a player requests to be traded for various reasons, and I think more times than not that the requests are not made public. So if a player should expect to be traded, then a GM should expect that sometimes players request trades, but as you said, it's not a player option in the contract, so the GM can decide whether and when and where to trade the player. What you are saying here is that Pronger forced a trade by threatening the Oilers that he would refuse to play if not traded. I don't think we have good evidence that he did that. We know that Al Stratchan reported it first, but we don't know whether Pronger asked to make the request public, giving the Oilers more pressure to trade (and we are not sure how much time passed between he made the request and it became public), or perhaps someone in the Oilers camp leaked it unintentionally to the media.

I think we just have to agree to disagree.

[Kel]

I think this thread was originally about Pratt and Maclean, so I wanted to ask if anyone knew why John Garrett refuses to go on the Team? He was mentioned as one of the poll question options (with Mather and Burke)

If you listened to the entire clip, we'd find that Pratt said Garrett refused to appear on his show because Garrett's daughter told Garrett that she was slighted by Pratt at one occasion, which Pratt claimed he didn't remember.

[Fred]

I think we just have to agree to disagree.

The fact is if Pronger was a 7th "D" he would have kept his mouth shut and guess what told his wife the same or quit. But because it's Pronger he felt he had more leverage, as in rules of this nature are for the plebbs not the likes of me.
I don't know if you've ever been to Dryden the town that Pronger came from but Dryden is to Edmonton what Edmonton is to NY. You pass through it in 1 - 2 minutes depending if you hit the only traffic light in town. He's from a whole in the wall. If St Louis was so dammed good and it is a nice area I must say then to enjoy those surrounds then he could have lowered his financial requests. He would have been where he wanted to be his wife and family would be where they wanted to be and the Blues could have paid what they could afford under the Cap. I ofetn wonder if there was any tampering by BB to be honest, he was Prongers first agent

Frankly keeping your word is one of the basis of charcter and I am happy to state my kids see through the tough going and don't follow the line of least resistance. Keeping your word is a moral choice and defines who you are

[Kel]

That's too far fetched to suggest Brian Burke tampered with the situation to acquire Pronger. It's not like he had to negotiate a contract with Pronger. The only thing he needed to do was to negotiate a deal with Lowe, and perhaps on the condition that Lowe gets a confirmation from Pronger that he's OK with Anaheim (or soemthing similar). I doubt there was a need for Burke to talk directly to Pronger. I was not aware the fact that Burke was his first agent. I only knew that Burke liked Pronger so much that he traded up in a draft to pick Pronger in Hartfard, so it's natural that Burke would want Pronger on his team.

[Fred]

Dollars to dough nuts the sequence of events for Pronger leaving was some thing like this. And keep in mind that before BB drafted pronger he was Prongers agent and either positioned his clients with other agents or sold his practice. And you bet that his present agent at is aware of the phrase " I owe you one "

Back to the conspiracy theory, the decision was made as follows, Mrs Pronger, Mr Pronger, his agents, BB , Kevin Lowe, the paying public other wise known as the drones!

There may also have been a number of Edmonton's fine looking ladies privy to the move to but aside from.

I am not of the belief that Pronger wakes up one morning and says or in this was told your moving. Many conversation and discussions took part prior to that and a lot of people were sounded out.

The biggest surprise likely was Prongers agents call to Lowe, but I'd be naive to think that other didn't know before that. It's called duplicity it's not uncommon

[Canuck2]

I feel for MacLean. He seems like a great guy and a great role model for a franchise. But his personnel decisions have always left me shaking my head.
But I'm glad if he ripped into Pratt. That guy has no integrity.

Doug McLean is an inbred from the Maritimes who gave jobs out not on merit but on the basis of if your another inbred from the Maritimes. He is now on the hotseat and frankly I would be surprised if he makes it through the season. Hitchcock is goin to show him up for what he is a smooth talking snake oil salesman.

As to integrity Pratt made what i thought was some very good comments about integrity when it come to Pronger. While Taylor and then Shorthouse came to the conclusion that if your wife beckons you better leave your principlas hanging and step in line. Frankly their rant about family coming first sickened me, what sort or morals are these guys teaching their own children, you only keep your word as long as it suits you. If tough times come along hey throw your principals out the windows. It's like saying, "well I know I said that, but, I lied, ha ha yeah I lied, stick it"

Frankly people taking that road show a shocking lack of back bone and courage. It was OK then but it doesn't suit now " I was completely with Pratt about that never mind if it's hockey or what ever in life. And remember Pronger if he wanted to stay in St Louis, the home of his precious wife could have stayed, he's only have to take a pay cut, now how important was that family first principal. And beside he was that concerned about his wife and family why was he allegedly playing hide the weaner with so many Edmonton women ?

Just wondering Fred, if you were bitching to your wife to move because you didn't like the place (-25C isn't too much fun) but she tells you "NO", would that be okay with you? Especially when she is at the top of her profession and can request the move.

[Fred]

Just wondering Fred, if you were bitching to your wife to move because you didn't like the place (-25C isn't too much fun) but she tells you "NO", would that be okay with you? Especially when she is at the top of her profession and can request the move.

The major point being missed was this was not I repeat not an either or situation. If he has wanted to play in St L he could have but would have to accpet a pay cut, he would still be making multimillions and I understand she's from a wealthy family to. So they're not strapped for a dollar. No he negoiated a new deal for a lot more money for a long term after nuerous visits to Edmonton. Many players in sport do not have their family with them but they don't all start porking a local waitress. If this was a number 7 defence hanging to to his job for all he was worth, do you really think this would have happened.

But to answer your question would I stick with my wife in -25C and i didn't care for the place absolutly. You see I would have given my word. Would I/we agreed to live in Edmonton in the first place i don't know althoug $6 million may have helped my choice but probably because $6 million might mean more to me than Pronger.

I liked what Scott Neidermyer did. He said he wanted to live on the westcoast and play with his brother BEFORE he agreed to term. Kariya and Selanane wanted to play togther again and accepted lesser money other players do it all the time accpet less to play in the city of their choice, and they make it known ..... why because quality of life means more than money alone and they give their word

Frankly it shows the type of person your dealing with, it's a look and learn opportunity see how character people react and how they handle life. Pronger unfortunitly failed the test

[Kel]

I guess it's very straightforward to Fred, that keeping one's word is more important than anything. If Pronger stayed, I'd imagine a divorce would not be surprising, and fans in Edmonton would never realize or appreciate how much Pronger suffered because Pronger adhered to his principle. Here is I guess what happened:

Summer 2005, Pronger told his wife that he's traded and there's little choice for him but to play for Edmonton. His wife was not happy, but they made several visits to Edmonton (in summer) and decided that it's better to sign a long-term contract (given the revenue concern and others), even though his wife had never been to Edmonton in winter. He knew very well that if he didn't sign the long-term deal, he'd likely be traded again soon, and he'd rather try and see if his family could settle down in Edmonton. He probably told his wife that if she really doesn't like Edmonton, that he could still request a trade (even though it's a last resort)

Then, the 2005-06 season started, and it got colder and colder in Edmonton, plus everything else in life didn't give the Pronger family much satisfaction. I dont' really believe the rumour about his affair, but even if there was no affair, we could imagine how Pronger's wife appeared bored and unhappy to him every time he came home. Pronger finally decided to request a trade, keeping his word to his wife. The Edmonton management told him that there's no way he could be traded midseason when they were making a run for the playoffs. They told him that they could only do it in summer, and gave Pronger more time to reconsider his request.

Pronger's team lost in the final game of the playoffs and his wife told him that the wait was over, she's moving out of Edmonton regardless, whether he stays there for another season or not. Pronger reiterated his request and finally the news leaked to Stratchan, maybe unintentionally.