Moving forward (poll)

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

What should the team do?

Blow it up - fire sale / rebuild
9
39%
Let it be - the pieces are here
1
4%
Bruce, there he goes - New coach
1
4%
Small move(s) - fill in the cracks
4
17%
It'll never happen, but get new owners
8
35%
 
Total votes: 23

User avatar
Blob Mckenzie
MVP
MVP
Posts: 31125
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Oakalla

Re: Moving forward (poll)

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

Just because you are going to build around Pettersson at 24 and Hughes at 23 that means any new players coming in should be in that age range? Is that what you are saying?
“I don’t care what you and some other poster were talking about”
User avatar
Chef Boi RD
MVP
MVP
Posts: 28935
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Moving forward (poll)

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Blob Mckenzie wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 11:50 am Just because you are going to build around Pettersson at 24 and Hughes at 23 that means any new players coming in should be in that age range? Is that what you are saying?
Listen Mr. Semantics if you read between the lines I’ve adjusted my initial findings on “moving forward” with this organization in that we should move on from both Miller and Horvat due to their ages vs the realistic timelines for this organization in making a playoff splash. Petey is the sun the planets orbit around.
“Tyler Myers is my guy... I was taking to Scotty Bowman last night and he was bringing up his name, and saying he’s a big guy and big guy need big minutes to play, he is playing great for ya… and I agree with him… He’s been exceptional” - Bruce Boudreau
User avatar
Blob Mckenzie
MVP
MVP
Posts: 31125
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Oakalla

Re: Moving forward (poll)

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

You’ve made comments before about having to have all the players around the same age as Hughes and Peter. I trying figure out if you’re still pushing that narrative. I guess you were thrilled with the Studnicka and Stillman acquisitions. Ethan Bear look like a building block to you? Maybe Lane Pederson figures it out.

So we flush Miller and Bo in hockey trades like you desire, how does that help with the future?
“I don’t care what you and some other poster were talking about”
User avatar
Chef Boi RD
MVP
MVP
Posts: 28935
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Moving forward (poll)

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Blob Mckenzie wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 12:00 pm You’ve made comments before about having to have all the players around the same age as Hughes and Peter. I trying figure out if you’re still pushing that narrative. I guess you were thrilled with the Studnicka and Stillman acquisitions. Ethan Bear look like a building block to you? Maybe Lane Pederson figures it out.

So we flush Miller and Bo in hockey trades like you desire, how does that help with the future?
Not sure, I give up, you tell me how the future should roll?
“Tyler Myers is my guy... I was taking to Scotty Bowman last night and he was bringing up his name, and saying he’s a big guy and big guy need big minutes to play, he is playing great for ya… and I agree with him… He’s been exceptional” - Bruce Boudreau
User avatar
Blob Mckenzie
MVP
MVP
Posts: 31125
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Oakalla

Re: Moving forward (poll)

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

They need to know what Bo’s bottom line is, ditto for Kuzmenko and even Schenn for that matter. Then they can move forward. Either way they need to launch two of Brock, Tanner or Conor and of of Tyler or OEL.

If it doesn’t make sense to sign the three UFA, trade them all. Go into the draft with three first rounders, a couple seconds and a couple good prospects and rebuild the failed Elms rebuild.
“I don’t care what you and some other poster were talking about”
User avatar
Topper
CC Legend
Posts: 18164
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:11 pm
Location: Earth, most days.

Re: Moving forward (poll)

Post by Topper »

You need a ladder of age ranges to keep rotation in in the roaster and not stagnate with elder statesmen ala 2011/2012.

Benning set that in place.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
User avatar
Chef Boi RD
MVP
MVP
Posts: 28935
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Moving forward (poll)

Post by Chef Boi RD »

After seeing the year Petey is having, he’s where you build around bottom line. If Bo is just asking for too much you trade him, just that simple, unless you can move Miller out l, keep Bo, but moving Miller is pretty much impossible now unless we retain or add a sweetener to get rid of the contract. Really see no point trading Boeser unless it is to keep all of Bo, Petey and Miller under massive contracts. We kinda fucked our selves regarding Boesers arbitration rights, makes him nearly impossible to trade unless there is a team out there willing to take the risk but I actually like Boeser, he’s a good human and team guy and Petey and him are buds, kinda hoping he gets his old self back.

If it weren’t for the seasons Petey and Bo are having in the absence of Demko combined with the contributions from the new Russians and the surprising play of our new 4th line we’d be in fair contention for a top 4 pick which is where you want to be picking

BTW this Leo Carlsson is super impressive
“Tyler Myers is my guy... I was taking to Scotty Bowman last night and he was bringing up his name, and saying he’s a big guy and big guy need big minutes to play, he is playing great for ya… and I agree with him… He’s been exceptional” - Bruce Boudreau
User avatar
Chef Boi RD
MVP
MVP
Posts: 28935
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Moving forward (poll)

Post by Chef Boi RD »

The Centurion and Allvin need to figure out how to get out from under JT Miller. He was a good trading chip when they had the opportunity to. Dropped the ball big time
“Tyler Myers is my guy... I was taking to Scotty Bowman last night and he was bringing up his name, and saying he’s a big guy and big guy need big minutes to play, he is playing great for ya… and I agree with him… He’s been exceptional” - Bruce Boudreau
User avatar
Madcombinepilot
MVP
MVP
Posts: 7093
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:54 am
Location: Saskatoon, Sk.

Re: Moving forward (poll)

Post by Madcombinepilot »

so, been trying to think of a way to fix the lineup and culture.

As much as I want to trade Miller, I think we are stuck with him. I just cant see the management group giving up on the first big contract they signed.. But if we are gonna keep him, he HAS to play the wing.. he is simply too terrible at center in this defensive system.

So how to make it work??

Keep Kuzmenko. SIgn him to a 4.5x3 contract. His enthusiasm, smile and attitude is what the team culture needs. dude has fun
Keep Bo. He is gonna want 55-60 million on his next contract. Sort that out over 7-8 years. His is the attitude we need, and he is a playoff beast.
Trade Brock. Love him, but need the cap space. A team can make a real hockey trade with him, no 'sweetener' necessary
Trade Garland. Too small. Love the forecheck, but we are full of small guys, and we need the picks and the extra cap is good..
Trade Pearson. Our third line is about to be full again, and we need the cap space.
Walk Myers out the door, or trade him at the TDD. If the mook wants to resign here at 3mx3 and play bottom pairing, he can stay, but we need his dollars for Petey contract. If he wants a penny more, take that fucker to the train station.

Sell all of Dermot, Poolman, Stillman, etc. Dump or waiver wire. These guys can be found via the waiver wire, or with careful signings (like Lazar) for less than 1.5 each. This team needs a culture change, and its done by having hard working Veterans like Schenn that stay the course while playing at the bottom of the lineup..

(*line costs are close estimates)
Pederson - Petey - Kuzmenko =16-17 million
Miller - Horvat - Podkolzin = 17 million
Mikeyev - Lazar - Hoglander =7 million
Joshua - Aman (or replacement) - Lockwood = 3-4 million

Hughes - Bear = 11 million (Bear is gonna earn a 2.5 ish contract)
OEL - (5 million replacement) = 12 million
Replacement - Schenn = 3 million (Schenn is prolly gone at TDD, but whomever is here)

Demko The goalies = 7 million more
Martin

That has us about 78 million. Add 2-3 depth veterans to help change the culture is another 4 million. While this puts us close to the cap, It sure as fuck sorts some shit out.

I would buy out OEL, but his penalty is the same that we are overpaying him (or his equivalent replacement) so there is no point. If an opportunity to move him comes along, you do it, but you don't pay extra to do so.


Thoughts?? (I am sure I forgot something!)
The 'Chain of Command' is the chain I am going to beat you with until you understand I am in charge.
User avatar
2Fingers
MVP
MVP
Posts: 7672
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:47 am

Re: Moving forward (poll)

Post by 2Fingers »

Mad - one thing you didn’t address is the coach. I hate to say but I think BB needs to go and have a coach that brings more structure. With the D you have the same issues will occur going forward. Because of that the team needs a new coach.
User avatar
Madcombinepilot
MVP
MVP
Posts: 7093
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:54 am
Location: Saskatoon, Sk.

Re: Moving forward (poll)

Post by Madcombinepilot »

2Fingers wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:50 pm Mad - one thing you didn’t address is the coach. I hate to say but I think BB needs to go and have a coach that brings more structure. With the D you have the same issues will occur going forward. Because of that the team needs a new coach.
Truth.. but if we are really going there, we need an new owner as well :D :drink:
The 'Chain of Command' is the chain I am going to beat you with until you understand I am in charge.
User avatar
JelloPuddingPop
MVP
MVP
Posts: 1137
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:53 pm

Re: Moving forward (poll)

Post by JelloPuddingPop »

Madcombinepilot wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:02 pm
(*line costs are close estimates)
Pederson - Petey - Kuzmenko =16-17 million
Miller - Horvat - Podkolzin = 17 million
Mikeyev - Lazar - Hoglander =7 million
Joshua - Aman (or replacement) - Lockwood = 3-4 million

Hughes - Bear = 11 million (Bear is gonna earn a 2.5 ish contract)
OEL - (5 million replacement) = 12 million
Replacement - Schenn = 3 million (Schenn is prolly gone at TDD, but whomever is here)

Demko The goalies = 7 million more
Martin
Mgmt's hands are certainly a bit tied with contracts going forward. I'm hoping Miller has a bounce back season next year - he looks a step slower than last year, maybe not enough training in the off-season? Who knows - but I'm sure he is better than we are seeing, and maybe not as good as last year, somewhere in the middle.

Kuz is not signing for 4.5x3. His number starts at 5 or 6. He is almost a PPG player, drives offense and is getting better defensively. Speculation is a 6x2 bridge deal? But at 26, maybe he wants a longer term.

We need to trade one of Bo, or Miller - and do well with it to kick start a move forward. We aren't looking at next year anymore - our window is likely 3-4 years down the road, once OEL is done etc., we need to bring in as many high draft picks/assets as we can to try to make this "age ladder" work as Topper puts it. Only players that are bringing in that kind of top talent, is our top talent. Sell high. Bo will be in his 30's when we are competitive again, and Miller will be dust.
User avatar
Blob Mckenzie
MVP
MVP
Posts: 31125
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Oakalla

Re: Moving forward (poll)

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

I agree with Bill Cosby. We are three to four years away.

And Kuzmenko is signing a 25 million dollar deal. So
5 x 5 or 6.25 x 4. The careers are finite. Which is why I can’t see Bo coming back and I doubt Peter wants much to do with this mess. He looked defeated yesterday. These players want to win.
“I don’t care what you and some other poster were talking about”
User avatar
Lancer
CC Legend
Posts: 3123
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 10:41 am
Location: Kingston, Ontario

Re: Moving forward (poll)

Post by Lancer »

Kuzmenko and Horvat are the marquee trade assets. If they're still here after the TDD management should be fired.

Miller, Boeser, Pearson and Myers... take what you can get for them - even if it's a 5th rounder or 'future considerations'. All they're doing is wasting cap space while doing just enough to keep the team in the mushy middle. If they're still around come next September, management should be fired.

OEL and Mikheyev, I'm afraid we're stuck with them. The cost to trade OEL's contract is prohibitive and Mikheyev doesn't move the needle enough for what he makes to make him attractive to any hockey managers outside the lower Mainland BC.

As much as people talk about the kind of return Schenn would bring at the TDD, I think he's worth more to the team as a mentor in the room who can throw them if the other side wants to go there. Keep him.

Anybody else other than Pettersson, Hughes, Podkolzin and (maybe) Hoglander, if someone calls with a reasonable offer, take it.

This team does not have it within the room to compete with anyone other than bottom-feeders who themselves are trying to lose. Games like the one against the Avs will happen - a broke-ass clock is right twice a day - but they're mirages.

Tear it down to the studs.
Love the Sport. Love the Team.

Hate the League.
User avatar
Hockey Widow
CC Legend
Posts: 19129
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:52 pm

Re: Moving forward (poll)

Post by Hockey Widow »

I doubt we do a tear down. Ownership has resisted that since 2010. It cost Nonis his job. It cost Gillis his job. It cost Linden as he was advocating for more of a tear down. It eventually cost Benning as he could not get the team over the top and it will cost this new management team if they cannot figure it out. At best I can see moving some high priced players to make cap room.

We had to re-sign Miller. Ownership and the fan base were clamouring for it. I and many others were advocating a trade. I still advocate a trade IF it means we can keep Bo. If Bo is gone then we keep Miller. But only room for one of them. Moving forward we do have to worry about the Petterson and Hughes next contracts.

Time to move on from Boeser and Garland. Time to move on from Myers and Pearson. Those moves alone will free up the cap we need to go shopping in FA or make some hockey trades.

Having Podkolzin and Hoglander percolate in Abbotsford is a great thing. They way they are playing should make them ready for next season.

As for Bruce....well management was struggling in their decision to bring him back. They saw his warts. Ownership however was caught up in the PR dilemma. They felt there would be a huge PR push back by fans and wanted to sell seats. Bruce will not be back next year, if he survives this one. Kind of hard to make a change right now so why bother.
The only HW the Canucks need
Post Reply