Moving forward (poll)
Moderator: Referees
Moving forward (poll)
We're not quite at the 1/4 mark of the season, and most people aren't liking what they're seeing. After last season's jump start with Bruce's arrival, we were expecting a continuation of last season's decent play.
Now we're looking about where we were last year with an indifferent team looking to get their coach fired.
So what's the answer? Have patience and watch this team turn it around? Blow it up? Somewhere in between?
Is the core acceptable? Maybe we only need a new 2nd pair on D? If Demko comes around, do we start winning more?
This team is a mess right now, and has zero confidence. It looks like nobody wants the puck except for Bo and Petey (I'd also say those are the only 2 players who are playing to their full capabilities).
I'm sure management sees the same thing we see, and would be open to any offers that would improve the team - but they weren't able to improve the D in the off-season, so I can't see that happening quickly now - especially now we're looking desperate.
So maybe tear it down, save a few pieces and start over (yeah, like that would ever happen with our owners)?
Maybe Demko and Hughes get back to their old selves, and that's enough to jump start the team?
Do we trade Boeser or some other high end player to fill in our D holes?
Now we're looking about where we were last year with an indifferent team looking to get their coach fired.
So what's the answer? Have patience and watch this team turn it around? Blow it up? Somewhere in between?
Is the core acceptable? Maybe we only need a new 2nd pair on D? If Demko comes around, do we start winning more?
This team is a mess right now, and has zero confidence. It looks like nobody wants the puck except for Bo and Petey (I'd also say those are the only 2 players who are playing to their full capabilities).
I'm sure management sees the same thing we see, and would be open to any offers that would improve the team - but they weren't able to improve the D in the off-season, so I can't see that happening quickly now - especially now we're looking desperate.
So maybe tear it down, save a few pieces and start over (yeah, like that would ever happen with our owners)?
Maybe Demko and Hughes get back to their old selves, and that's enough to jump start the team?
Do we trade Boeser or some other high end player to fill in our D holes?
Doc: "BTW, Donny was right, you're smug."
Re: Moving forward (poll)
Somewhere in between blow it up and minor moves.Cornuck wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:38 am So what's the answer? Have patience and watch this team turn it around? Blow it up? Somewhere in between?
Is the core acceptable? Maybe we only need a new 2nd pair on D? If Demko comes around, do we start winning more?
Do we trade Boeser or some other high end player to fill in our D holes?
Moving top 6 wingers Boeser and or Garland is probably the easiest moves right now, both under contract and don't have any trade protection.
2024 TDD Myers and Pearson will be easier to move as well to a contender.
Gotta sinking feeling after some moves that Demko will catch fire and bring the team to mediocrity in the standings lol, in classic Canucks fashion....but if he continues his 4.01 GAA this season, the team should still be in bottom 4 in the league to hopefully get a high pick.
--
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This is the worst 16-game start by the Canucks since Messier's first year in Vancouver (1997-98).
The Canucks cleaned house that season, firing their GM/president/coach, and trading longtime players like Linden, McLean, Gelinas, Babych, and Odjick.
Can the Canucks just win a Cup within the next 5 years.
Re: Moving forward (poll)
I’m not even convinced Pettersson is even playing to his capabilities. It is to wonder if it’s a lingering wrist thing or something between the ears.
This room isn’t right. Time to start over, and a deep 2023 draft is exactly the time to do it.
This room isn’t right. Time to start over, and a deep 2023 draft is exactly the time to do it.
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Re: Moving forward (poll)
I'm tempted to say blow it up, but I would really like to see how this team does with replacements for OEL and Myers. Of course, to get rid them will take a lot of work, and likely cost some picks and/or moving out pieces like Boeser or Garland.
So just to replace those two blows up a bit of the team, costs some picks and we still wouldn't be guaranteed there's any improvement.
We're 10th in goals per game, which isn't too bad and shows we can score, sadly, we're 3rd worst for goals against, which is on the D and mediocre goaltending. Top 5 in PP, and have the worst PK. So we have the guns, but can't stop other teams.
Maybe coaching is the problem at this point?
Who the fuck knows, but changes need to be made, and I predict it will be:
1) Bruce, there he goes
2) a minor move
3) a mid round pick in a deep draft
rinse, repeat
So just to replace those two blows up a bit of the team, costs some picks and we still wouldn't be guaranteed there's any improvement.
We're 10th in goals per game, which isn't too bad and shows we can score, sadly, we're 3rd worst for goals against, which is on the D and mediocre goaltending. Top 5 in PP, and have the worst PK. So we have the guns, but can't stop other teams.
Maybe coaching is the problem at this point?
Who the fuck knows, but changes need to be made, and I predict it will be:
1) Bruce, there he goes
2) a minor move
3) a mid round pick in a deep draft
rinse, repeat
Doc: "BTW, Donny was right, you're smug."
Re: Moving forward (poll)
I picked blow it up in that I don’t see anyone who absolutely must be saved. But I don’t want 23 moves. I want all the ufas moved, picks and cap space, and a rebuilt defence. I’m not in a position to be prescriptive as to exactly who should go and for whom.
But in general it seems like management has been accidentally gifted an opportunity to make bold moves this season. They genuinely tried to build on last year’s squad and it hasn’t worked. They’ve shown this to the market and to ownership.
And the result is clear. A team that is often second to the puck, that is vulnerable to nhl forecheck, that sags under duress.
Why carry on in the same way expecting something different?
But in general it seems like management has been accidentally gifted an opportunity to make bold moves this season. They genuinely tried to build on last year’s squad and it hasn’t worked. They’ve shown this to the market and to ownership.
And the result is clear. A team that is often second to the puck, that is vulnerable to nhl forecheck, that sags under duress.
Why carry on in the same way expecting something different?
- 5thhorseman
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Re: Moving forward (poll)
I've always thought Petey should wear the C as the expected superstar and face of the franchise. Bo and Miller are standing in the way of that and it just seems awkward. I'm on board with trading both and building around Petey.
Also, Bruce is a lame duck coach at this point. Even if the team miraculously recovers, his contract will not get renewed. So let's get JR's coach in here. Hopefully that's Trotz.
Also, Bruce is a lame duck coach at this point. Even if the team miraculously recovers, his contract will not get renewed. So let's get JR's coach in here. Hopefully that's Trotz.
Re: Moving forward (poll)
I don’t think we’ll see an outside replacement if/when Boudreau gets fired. It will likely be one of Yeo or Cull taking over the bench as an interim until next summer, at which point JR is no doubt hoping his preferred coach is available.5thhorseman wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 12:18 pm I've always thought Petey should wear the C as the expected superstar and face of the franchise. Bo and Miller are standing in the way of that and it just seems awkward. I'm on board with trading both and building around Petey.
Also, Bruce is a lame duck coach at this point. Even if the team miraculously recovers, his contract will not get renewed. So let's get JR's coach in here. Hopefully that's Trotz.
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Hate the League.
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Re: Moving forward (poll)
Until Myers & OEL are gone this team will falter. Getting rid of them and finding a legit top pairing will be extremely difficult.
Everyone but Petey,Hughes,Demko, Podz can go.
I'd consider keeping Hoglander & Rathbone because they're young & still have development potential.
Everyone but Petey,Hughes,Demko, Podz can go.
I'd consider keeping Hoglander & Rathbone because they're young & still have development potential.
Re: Moving forward (poll)
I think there is potentially one guy who is the problem. I think there's been enough noise about the locker room to suspect there's an issue, but the apparent/outward character of the players in there suggests it's not multiple players. And if it's only one guy, then it must be a prominent guy.
My suspicion is Petey. He's possibly too much of a douche for this team. His whole extended-summer-vacation with Quinn seemed more out-of-character for mild-mannered Quinn, and the team hasn't seemed right ever since, except for last December-April when perhaps Petey had been humbled after a terrible start.
Miller would have been my top suspect, but he was just extended rather than traded very easily by the incoming regime. Can't be Bo, he's too genuinely sweet. Hughes is mild-mannered in the extreme, I can't even believe he's American. Brock is too aw-shucks, plus he's coming off a well-deserved pay cut.
The only other possibility is maybe Demko. He was quite douchey at the start of his career, didn't his dad weigh in about him getting sent down or something? To be clear, I wouldn't advocate trading him for being the team's worst player so far, but only if he's a locker room problem.
Either way, if there is a locker room problem, and it's either of those guys, then they just have to go. I think the return on either player would be enough that they can be sliced out like a cancer, rather than fully tearing it down. Even with Demko's atrocious start, goalies retain value based on past performance more than any other position.
IMO it's not going to be resolved with coach change, GM change, minor roster moves, and there's too much good to totally scorch the earth.
My suspicion is Petey. He's possibly too much of a douche for this team. His whole extended-summer-vacation with Quinn seemed more out-of-character for mild-mannered Quinn, and the team hasn't seemed right ever since, except for last December-April when perhaps Petey had been humbled after a terrible start.
Miller would have been my top suspect, but he was just extended rather than traded very easily by the incoming regime. Can't be Bo, he's too genuinely sweet. Hughes is mild-mannered in the extreme, I can't even believe he's American. Brock is too aw-shucks, plus he's coming off a well-deserved pay cut.
The only other possibility is maybe Demko. He was quite douchey at the start of his career, didn't his dad weigh in about him getting sent down or something? To be clear, I wouldn't advocate trading him for being the team's worst player so far, but only if he's a locker room problem.
Either way, if there is a locker room problem, and it's either of those guys, then they just have to go. I think the return on either player would be enough that they can be sliced out like a cancer, rather than fully tearing it down. Even with Demko's atrocious start, goalies retain value based on past performance more than any other position.
IMO it's not going to be resolved with coach change, GM change, minor roster moves, and there's too much good to totally scorch the earth.
- Chef Boi RD
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Re: Moving forward (poll)
I don’t think it’s anyone in particular, it’s simply not a tight room. The mix is wrong, no chemistry. A bad mix isn’t necessarily one or two guys causing the problem. You just have to decide what part of the mix you want to move out and what part you’d like to keep. None of the players strike me as “bad guys”.ESQ wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:04 pm I think there is potentially one guy who is the problem. I think there's been enough noise about the locker room to suspect there's an issue, but the apparent/outward character of the players in there suggests it's not multiple players. And if it's only one guy, then it must be a prominent guy.
My suspicion is Petey. He's possibly too much of a douche for this team. His whole extended-summer-vacation with Quinn seemed more out-of-character for mild-mannered Quinn, and the team hasn't seemed right ever since, except for last December-April when perhaps Petey had been humbled after a terrible start.
Miller would have been my top suspect, but he was just extended rather than traded very easily by the incoming regime. Can't be Bo, he's too genuinely sweet. Hughes is mild-mannered in the extreme, I can't even believe he's American. Brock is too aw-shucks, plus he's coming off a well-deserved pay cut.
The only other possibility is maybe Demko. He was quite douchey at the start of his career, didn't his dad weigh in about him getting sent down or something? To be clear, I wouldn't advocate trading him for being the team's worst player so far, but only if he's a locker room problem.
Either way, if there is a locker room problem, and it's either of those guys, then they just have to go. I think the return on either player would be enough that they can be sliced out like a cancer, rather than fully tearing it down. Even with Demko's atrocious start, goalies retain value based on past performance more than any other position.
IMO it's not going to be resolved with coach change, GM change, minor roster moves, and there's too much good to totally scorch the earth.
“Tyler Myers is my guy... I was taking to Scotty Bowman last night and he was bringing up his name, and saying he’s a big guy and big guy need big minutes to play, he is playing great for ya… and I agree with him… He’s been exceptional” - Bruce Boudreau
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Re: Moving forward (poll)
Getting rid of Meyers with 1 year left after this isn’t a difficult task. We are simply stuck with OEL’s beast of a contract plain and simple, it’s not worth discussing anymore, we are eating that contract, no team is going to help us out in that departmentdangler wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:48 pm Until Myers & OEL are gone this team will falter. Getting rid of them and finding a legit top pairing will be extremely difficult.
Everyone but Petey,Hughes,Demko, Podz can go.
I'd consider keeping Hoglander & Rathbone because they're young & still have development potential.
“Tyler Myers is my guy... I was taking to Scotty Bowman last night and he was bringing up his name, and saying he’s a big guy and big guy need big minutes to play, he is playing great for ya… and I agree with him… He’s been exceptional” - Bruce Boudreau
- Strangelove
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Re: Moving forward (poll)
Yep, they could pretty much pull off whatever fair value mega-trade they want right now.
No sense in doing so until close to the deadline though... unless an offer comes in that knocks their socks off.
____
Try to focus on someday.
Try to focus on someday.
Re: Moving forward (poll)
It's none of those guys you mentioned, as back in early September Allvin names these players his core crew...ESQ wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:04 pm I think there is potentially one guy who is the problem. I think there's been enough noise about the locker room to suspect there's an issue, but the apparent/outward character of the players in there suggests it's not multiple players. And if it's only one guy, then it must be a prominent guy.
Either way, if there is a locker room problem, and it's either of those guys, then they just have to go. I think the return on either player would be enough that they can be sliced out like a cancer, rather than fully tearing it down. Even with Demko's atrocious start, goalies retain value based on past performance more than any other position.
IMO it's not going to be resolved with coach change, GM change, minor roster moves, and there's too much good to totally scorch the earth.
Means Brock is the odd man out. dun dun dunnnnnn +OEL,Myers,Garland etc.Allvin name checks Quinn Hughes, Thatcher Demko, Bo Horvat, Elias Pettersson and J.T. Miller as Vancouver’s core pieces.
Notes that he rates that group as among the best core groups in the league.
Can the Canucks just win a Cup within the next 5 years.
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Re: Moving forward (poll)
If they get a good offer for Horvat, Miller, Boeser, Garland, they should take it when they get it. Waiting till the deadline the player could slump or get injured. No more we wan out of time bullshit.
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Re: Moving forward (poll)
I don’t think Old Fart Rutherford and his sock puppet Allvin are going to sit on their hands with this situation. We know Rutherford’s reputation.Blob Mckenzie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 3:27 pm If they get a good offer for Horvat, Miller, Boeser, Garland, they should take it when they get it. Waiting till the deadline the player could slump or get injured. No more we wan out of time bullshit.
I wager we will see a much different roster come December if the organization sees reason and takes a torch to it.
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Hate the League.
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