Trade Rumours & Armchair Pipe Dreams 22-23 Sponsored by SKYO

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Re: Trade Rumours & Armchair Pipe Dreams 22-23 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Meds »

Madcombinepilot wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:51 am
SKYO wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:47 pm Is Schenn worth a 2nd????????????

He's probably worth those prubosecec,

Luke Schenn is probably worth a 1st, even a rental.
Ok, lets stop stroking off Schenn here.

yes he has heart, and yes he plays well with Hughes, but no GM is going to give up a 1st (or high1st!) for Luke Schenn and keep his job!! This is classic Canucks fans overvaluing a guy.

I posed the question somewhere else "was Schenn worth a second", because I think he is playing like a 3rd.. If someone gives you a 2nd for Schenn, I think you take it and run.
Schenn is worth a 1st to the Canucks because of what he's doing here. He's not worth more than a 3rd to anyone else, and a 3rd round pick isn't worth the departure of Schenn to Vancouver. Ergo some GM would have to completely rehydrate the raisin in order to make it worth sending Schenn out.

I wouldn't move Schenn for anything less than a 2023 1st because I think would see a very negative effect almost immediately to our on-ice product.

And if we're selling pieces for a 2023 1st then we are embracing the not-so-stealth tank.
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Re: Trade Rumours & Armchair Pipe Dreams 22-23 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Todd Bersnoozi »

Chef Boi RD wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:53 am Yes, we haven’t had a good well structured D-program for years. I can’t even think of the last time we had one
Prob under AV when we had the top rated specialty teams (#1 PK and #1 PP) at one point. He had some good horses to lean on though. I thought Greener had us playing some good D @ one point; he line matched and made a good shut-down line of Eriksson-Sutts-Dorsett with Edler-Tanev in the backend. Those players still had some gas in the tank @ that time and we had some success with it.

Speaking of AV, I remember MG wasn't sold on AV when MG first came in as the new regime change. AV was known as a defensive coach, but MG wanted the team to play a more upbeat/up tempo offensive game. MG had meetings with AV and AV was willing to make some changes and the rest as they say is history. I think of this because of the current situation with Coach B and the Geezer/Chipmunk. The Geezer has been in the game all his life, why doesn't he just have meetings with Coach B instead of crapping on him in the media. "Ex: Yo, Coach, when we have a 2 goal lead, get our guys to clog up the neutral zone, only 1 forechecker in, protect the middle of the ice, play between the dots, etc. Battle for a turnover and if our guys can get an odd man rush going the other way, they have the green light to go for it. Otherwise preach to our guys to make the safe play, bench/scratch a guy if you have to make a point. I'll have your back if a player doesn't follow our program." I mean, they're supposed to be friends who have known each other most of their lives and have been wanting to work together.
Cornuck wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:49 am We need an "Ian Clark of Defense".
Yeah, that guy was supposed to be Brad Shaw. He was supposed to help Greener with our D-men and help our overall team defence. Unfortunately, his impact seemed minimal and our defensive play not much diff't. It was really only when Coach B came in with his boy Scotty Walker that things turned around.
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Re: Trade Rumours & Armchair Pipe Dreams 22-23 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Mëds wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:12 pm
Madcombinepilot wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:51 am
SKYO wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:47 pm Is Schenn worth a 2nd????????????

He's probably worth those prubosecec,

Luke Schenn is probably worth a 1st, even a rental.
Ok, lets stop stroking off Schenn here.

yes he has heart, and yes he plays well with Hughes, but no GM is going to give up a 1st (or high1st!) for Luke Schenn and keep his job!! This is classic Canucks fans overvaluing a guy.

I posed the question somewhere else "was Schenn worth a second", because I think he is playing like a 3rd.. If someone gives you a 2nd for Schenn, I think you take it and run.
Schenn is worth a 1st to the Canucks because of what he's doing here. He's not worth more than a 3rd to anyone else, and a 3rd round pick isn't worth the departure of Schenn to Vancouver. Ergo some GM would have to completely rehydrate the raisin in order to make it worth sending Schenn out.

I wouldn't move Schenn for anything less than a 2023 1st because I think would see a very negative effect almost immediately to our on-ice product.

And if we're selling pieces for a 2023 1st then we are embracing the not-so-stealth tank.
Schenn is a good guy, salt of the earth, we all love him, how can you not, he’s good for the room that is seemingly disjointed but let’s not kid ourselves, there is reason why the beloved Schenn has travelled many roads with different jerseys on his back. It’s so Canuck fan and media to overrate the “good guy”, we are known for it. That being said I love Schenn, how can you not.
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Re: Trade Rumours & Armchair Pipe Dreams 22-23 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Strangelove »

Schenn has actually been getting better at hockey in his 30s (so far).

Gotta hand it to him, that doesn't happen very often.
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Re: Trade Rumours & Armchair Pipe Dreams 22-23 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Cornuck »

Like the other posts have said, Schenn is worth more to us, than he is likely going to be to other teams. Until he can be replaced, there is no reason to trade him, especially for a pick. A vet, a leader, solid play, hits, fights - not sure how we replace that, especially at his cap hit.
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Re: Trade Rumours & Armchair Pipe Dreams 22-23 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Madcombinepilot »

Cornuck wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:32 pm Like the other posts have said, Schenn is worth more to us, than he is likely going to be to other teams. Until he can be replaced, there is no reason to trade him, especially for a pick. A vet, a leader, solid play, hits, fights - not sure how we replace that, especially at his cap hit.
As much as I agree with all of Schenn’s good traits listed above, when one understands we are building for 2-3 years from now, and Schenn won’t be here, how can you pass up on getting an asset of a 2nd rounder (or more according to some) for him?

This ‘hanging on to / overpricing fan favourites’ is why this team never seems to recoup traded draft picks.

I know to be competitive, you need player types like Schenn and Garland to play above thier contracts, (and stars to play like stars), but we are not in the race yet, and the cupboards are bare. Instead of trading our best players for buckets, we need to be trading players who will not be part of the future in 3 years. Swap out the complementary pieces, amd get something back from them.

This eternal shortsightedness is why we are where we are.
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Re: Trade Rumours & Armchair Pipe Dreams 22-23 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Cornuck »

I don't look at Schenn as a "Fan favourite" for being the reason to keep him. I see him has filling a big role on our paper thin D. Remove him for pick tomorrow and everyone else moves up a spot. I don't see that as being the best plan right now.

He's a UFA - see what he does for the rest of the year, and maybe give him a slight raise to keep him around for a year or 2. Maybe he starts sliding and we ship him out at the deadline? Or he decides he's planning to move on? Not much point in thinking about a trade until then.
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Re: Trade Rumours & Armchair Pipe Dreams 22-23 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Madcombinepilot »

Fair
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Re: Trade Rumours & Armchair Pipe Dreams 22-23 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Carl Yagro »

If we're realistically out of it, he'll be part of the fire sale along with a bunch of others. If we're still in the race, no way the coach or management will let Schenn's leadership go, even if he's pending UFA.
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Re: Trade Rumours & Armchair Pipe Dreams 22-23 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Lancer »

Carl Yagro wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:22 pm If we're realistically out of it, he'll be part of the fire sale along with a bunch of others. If we're still in the race, no way the coach or management will let Schenn's leadership go, even if he's pending UFA.
If we’re out of it, I would keep him. When you trade away all the nominal leaders in the room, at least he’ll be there to keep the kids in line. He’s cheap and is a UFA next summer who can likely be easily brought back or extended. Unless he’s a key throw-in on a deal for a young stud RHD, he’s more valuable in the room than on the trade market.
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Re: Trade Rumours & Armchair Pipe Dreams 22-23 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Carl Yagro »

It'd be nice to keep him, but I can't see Schenn wanting to hang around (for a necessary rebuild) at his age if we're out of it. He knows he might only have a couple of years left in the NHL.
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Re: Trade Rumours & Armchair Pipe Dreams 22-23 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

Carl Yagro wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 6:43 pm It'd be nice to keep him, but I can't see Schenn wanting to hang around (for a necessary rebuild) at his age if we're out of it. He knows he might only have a couple of years left in the NHL.
He does have two cups though. He obviously likes it here, has a home in the Okanagan. I would be talking to him, Bo and Kuzmenko on January 2nd. Find out what the numbers are and if any or all of these guys fit. If they don’t, they move for picks and prospects. If they decide to keep them, launch sone other guys out of a cannon. They need to start negotiating with Petterson at season’s end. Not right when his current contract expires.
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Re: Trade Rumours & Armchair Pipe Dreams 22-23 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Hockey Widow »

After winning his Cups Schenn had several options. He has often said he returned to the Canucks out of loyalty and appreciation for the Canucks saving his career. He felt he wanted to be part of the leadership group here to help bring along all the kids. That is a commitment you reward. However, I'd talk to him. If he says no I dont want to move, unless you get a knock your socks off offer, you keep him. If he says he would move then move him for whatever you can get.
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Re: Trade Rumours & Armchair Pipe Dreams 22-23 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Meds »

Schenn reminds me of Bieksa in terms of commitment and intangibles that he brings to the team.
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Re: Trade Rumours & Armchair Pipe Dreams 22-23 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Arbour »

Todd Bersnoozi wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:47 pm
Chef Boi RD wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:53 am Yes, we haven’t had a good well structured D-program for years. I can’t even think of the last time we had one
Prob under AV when we had the top rated specialty teams (#1 PK and #1 PP) at one point. He had some good horses to lean on though. I thought Greener had us playing some good D @ one point; he line matched and made a good shut-down line of Eriksson-Sutts-Dorsett with Edler-Tanev in the backend. Those players still had some gas in the tank @ that time and we had some success with it.

Speaking of AV, I remember MG wasn't sold on AV when MG first came in as the new regime change. AV was known as a defensive coach, but MG wanted the team to play a more upbeat/up tempo offensive game. MG had meetings with AV and AV was willing to make some changes and the rest as they say is history. I think of this because of the current situation with Coach B and the Geezer/Chipmunk. The Geezer has been in the game all his life, why doesn't he just have meetings with Coach B instead of crapping on him in the media. "Ex: Yo, Coach, when we have a 2 goal lead, get our guys to clog up the neutral zone, only 1 forechecker in, protect the middle of the ice, play between the dots, etc. Battle for a turnover and if our guys can get an odd man rush going the other way, they have the green light to go for it. Otherwise preach to our guys to make the safe play, bench/scratch a guy if you have to make a point. I'll have your back if a player doesn't follow our program." I mean, they're supposed to be friends who have known each other most of their lives and have been wanting to work together.
Cornuck wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:49 am We need an "Ian Clark of Defense".
Yeah, that guy was supposed to be Brad Shaw. He was supposed to help Greener with our D-men and help our overall team defence. Unfortunately, his impact seemed minimal and our defensive play not much diff't. It was really only when Coach B came in with his boy Scotty Walker that things turned around.
A matter of speculation on my part but perhaps the loss of the Boudreau/Walker tandem has had more of a negative effect not only on the defence but on how the forwards execute defensively, and how the team otherwise handles adversity.
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