The Canucks 2022 Offseason.

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Which Canuck forward should not be brought back for the 2022/2023 season?

Poll ended at Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:13 am

Miller
10
11%
Boeser
9
10%
Garland
4
4%
Horvat
0
No votes
Hoglander
0
No votes
Pearson
4
4%
Dickinson
17
19%
Chiasson
13
15%
Richardson
9
10%
Sutter
23
26%
 
Total votes: 89

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Madcombinepilot
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Re: The Canucks 2022 Offseason.

Post by Madcombinepilot »

Blob Mckenzie wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 12:39 pm
Madcombinepilot wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 10:35 am
Mëds wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 4:56 pm
donlever wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 2:49 pm ...is there a logical JT Miller Jersey trade out there for us? (Or Garland, or Boeser).

I believe I recall SKYO and AP (??) discussing a couple of age representative, potential fits for Vancouver on their NHL roster.

Fitzgerald is willing to toss his # 1 in apparently/allegedly.

Does an 8.5% chance for a Shane Wright come with any intrinsic value beyond the worth of a 2022 5th overall?
Question is: Is JT Miller worth the 1 OA pick? If so then you trade him after the lottery and you know who that pick is.

Is JT Miller + 13-16 overall pick worth Shane Wright?

Is Shane Wright going to fill a need for this team as soon as 2 years from now?
Or do you save the wad and try for Bedard?
What wad?

Thr only way you “try for Bedard” is to gut the team and do a 3/4 tear down. There’s no “wad”. We have no prospect depth at all. The team that gets that pick will want Petey/Hughes + Podkolzin, + a 1st and another roster player at minimum. I doubt that’s enough.
I meant save the picks, resign Miller, and then put a package together around JT, picks, and perhaps a prospect.
(Opposed to simply trading Miller for picks and prospects)

That wad.
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Re: The Canucks 2022 Offseason.

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

No team is going to trade the next one for a package based around a 30 year old JT.

Thr only chance we have at Bedard is to blowtorch the current team and maybe we get lucky.
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Re: The Canucks 2022 Offseason.

Post by Lancer »

Blob Mckenzie wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 3:02 pm No team is going to trade the next one for a package based around a 30 year old JT.

Thr only chance we have at Bedard is to blowtorch the current team and maybe we get lucky.
At this stage, why not?
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Re: The Canucks 2022 Offseason.

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

Lancer wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 9:11 pm
Blob Mckenzie wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 3:02 pm No team is going to trade the next one for a package based around a 30 year old JT.

Thr only chance we have at Bedard is to blowtorch the current team and maybe we get lucky.
At this stage, why not?
I can’t see FA wanting to do that.

They’d do well to hoard 2023 first round picks when they make a decision which forwards they are going to trade this summer.

As for this years pick why not trade 15 for another teams later first and a second if the opportunity presents itself? It’s barebones in the pipeline.
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Re: The Canucks 2022 Offseason.

Post by 2Fingers »

No moving 1st round picks unless the dude coming back is 19 - 22 and worth it. No mid age dudes as the team already has too many mediocre players making too much.
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Re: The Canucks 2022 Offseason.

Post by Meds »

So JR thinks we need more sandpaper to play in the west.....sigh. The Strangelove translation: We need more assholes.

We've heard this before. We've seen this before. Whenever we bring the sandpaper in they either get neutered by the team culture and/or are not brought back.

Dickinson, Richardson, Chiasson, and perhaps Pearson, are the guys I'd move out and replace with that sandpaper-type.

Dickinson has been a bust.

Richardson will be 38 before the end of next year and he is as injury prone as they come. I have no problem with him as the 13th or 14th guy though because he can still win faceoffs and he's smart in his own end.

Chiasson is replaceable. Despite a good finishing stretch in the final weeks of the season he just didn't do anything, and really when you look at his goals there was nothing there that made me think he had elevated his game, it was just better decisions by the puck carrier and a bit of hockey god bounce.

Pearson is an all situations guy who is reliable despite not being the swiftest, and he's not afraid of contact, however he's not an asshole. It's true that there are way worse options for a #7 forward who can play 2nd or 3rd line minutes. But I'd prefer a guy that comes with a chip on his shoulder and a bit more speed.

I would trade Pearson for a pick. 3rd or 4th rounder and take his money and Chiasson's and try to land Eastvander Kane. The guy is a dork off the ice, but he would become a fan favorite being the local guy who can actually skate and score.....and he's a right arshole on the ice.

On D try to move Myers and target a guy like Manson or Zadorov for a million less.

Go with that and see what kind of hay you can make with just those tweaks to the NHL roster. Then figure out what's next for the 22-23 campaign with the $2.4M in new space created by Holtby and Virtanen dropping off the books plus another $1M in cap increase.
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Re: The Canucks 2022 Offseason.

Post by UWSaint »

Mëds wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 7:06 am So JR thinks we need more sandpaper to play in the west.....sigh. The Strangelove translation: We need more assholes.

We've heard this before. We've seen this before. Whenever we bring the sandpaper in they either get neutered by the team culture and/or are not brought back.
There are always exceptions, but guys with sandpaper are often in the league because the sandpaper is the factor that separates them from an AHL player. Their hands are AHL hands (MacEwan, Schaller). Or they have subpar NHL skating (Schenn). Their style of play might make for injuries (Roussel, Ferland, Dorsett). And when their skating is fine and their speed is fine, they lack creativity or the shot to contribute all that much on offense (Motte). [Given Ferland's never had a chance and Roussel's huge decline after the injury, Motte's the best of the recent acquisitions that added sandpaper -- most don't think of him as playing with sandpaper, but he hit a lot and he hit pretty well (creating turnovers), but he didn't hit hard or play dirty]

In addition, sandpaper guys frequently (not always) look to apply the sandpaper when its not their time (Ruutu, Cooke). The result is disorganization in the defensive zone.

I am not against sandpaper, by the way, but only as a plus factor on a player that would be an NHLer without the sandpaper, not as the thing that makes them an NHLer instead of an AHLer in the eyes of Old School (not pejorative, descriptive of a mentality) GMs. But my point is that JR rightly identified zone exits as being a problem and the sandpaper guys are often the guys getting hemmed in due to bad positioning and poor passing/reception.

You can't get it all. Know your core. Know your identity (we are not going to be the sandpaper team building from a core of Pettersson and Hughes). Don't get distracted by "micro" things. Because every identity that is not yours has a value -- but that doesn't mean that you need a little bit of all of it. I'm not saying a sandpaper NHLer might not be a good complementary player, but I'd look first at bottom 6 players who can kill penalties above average, are good at getting the puck out of the zone with possession, or possessing in the offensive end.
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Re: The Canucks 2022 Offseason.

Post by donlever »

...speaking of the Finnish ex-Canuck.

Listened to Nick Foligno on Spittin' Chiclets the other day and both he and Ryan Whitney heaped major praise on Jarrko Ruutu as a teammate.

Each also called him perhaps the greatest practical joker they had ever been around....

Foligno also had nothing but good things to say about Adrian Aucoin as a teammate and mentor (as an aside)....
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Re: The Canucks 2022 Offseason.

Post by Meds »

UWSaint wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 10:22 am
Mëds wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 7:06 am So JR thinks we need more sandpaper to play in the west.....sigh. The Strangelove translation: We need more assholes.

We've heard this before. We've seen this before. Whenever we bring the sandpaper in they either get neutered by the team culture and/or are not brought back.
There are always exceptions, but guys with sandpaper are often in the league because the sandpaper is the factor that separates them from an AHL player. Their hands are AHL hands (MacEwan, Schaller). Or they have subpar NHL skating (Schenn). Their style of play might make for injuries (Roussel, Ferland, Dorsett). And when their skating is fine and their speed is fine, they lack creativity or the shot to contribute all that much on offense (Motte). [Given Ferland's never had a chance and Roussel's huge decline after the injury, Motte's the best of the recent acquisitions that added sandpaper -- most don't think of him as playing with sandpaper, but he hit a lot and he hit pretty well (creating turnovers), but he didn't hit hard or play dirty]

In addition, sandpaper guys frequently (not always) look to apply the sandpaper when its not their time (Ruutu, Cooke). The result is disorganization in the defensive zone.

I am not against sandpaper, by the way, but only as a plus factor on a player that would be an NHLer without the sandpaper, not as the thing that makes them an NHLer instead of an AHLer in the eyes of Old School (not pejorative, descriptive of a mentality) GMs. But my point is that JR rightly identified zone exits as being a problem and the sandpaper guys are often the guys getting hemmed in due to bad positioning and poor passing/reception.

You can't get it all. Know your core. Know your identity (we are not going to be the sandpaper team building from a core of Pettersson and Hughes). Don't get distracted by "micro" things. Because every identity that is not yours has a value -- but that doesn't mean that you need a little bit of all of it. I'm not saying a sandpaper NHLer might not be a good complementary player, but I'd look first at bottom 6 players who can kill penalties above average, are good at getting the puck out of the zone with possession, or possessing in the offensive end.
The kind of sandpaper that I'm assuming JR was meaning is the type that is brought by guys like Evander Kane, Brad Marchand, Ryan Kesler, Corey Perry, Jamie Benn, and Nick Foligno, bring to the ice. Sure they take the occasional bad penalty, but they are quality players who make good plays and don't shy away from the heavy game. They also don't skate away from a scrum with their tails tucked hoping the refs will penalize the other team every time. You need guys who will stand up for themselves, as well as teammates, after the whistle blows.....not so much guys who initiate that crap and take stupid penalties as the aggressor.

Pettersson and Hughes both are "tough" players. They have fire. But nobody is scared to target them because they can't standup for themselves against the assholes of the NHL. They don't run and hide, and we've seen them both give that chop or crosscheck back. It's the "Sedin" culture that I want to see gone in Vancouver. The Twins were also "tough" players, they just took a beating and kept on playing, but as leaders of the team they, and AV, created the culture that didn't have room for physical retaliation, which is sometimes the only way to police things in this league.

Brad Marchand kept punching and punching and punching.

And Daniel Sedin stood there and kept taking punch after punch after punch. Did Sedin wonder how many punches it would take for Marchand to get a penalty?

"Maybe after the fifth. But I took six. What can I do?" said Sedin, clearly agitated after being Marchand's punching bag in the third period.

An emotional Sedin said something afterward to referee Kelly Sutherland.

"I asked him why he didn't call the penalty. He said he was going to," Sedin said.

Marchand just shrugged off the moment.

"It was just heat of the moment, that stuff happens," the rookie said after Game 6.

Did Sedin say something to provoke Marchand?

"No, he didn't say anything before. He was just right there. ... He didn't say anything, he was just kind of taking it," the Bruins winger said.

Why did Marchand keep punching him then?

"Because I felt like it," Marchand said.


Seriously.....that needed an answer and it got none.
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Re: The Canucks 2022 Offseason.

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Yeah, it needed an answer. Where was Kesler, Bieksa, Torres, Edler, etc, etc, etc...

Unless you have a guy willing to take an instigator in the playoffs, you take that shit and blame the reffing.

Rypien would have put paid to that shit. Dorsett as well.

Those types that can play and tilt are pretty rare.
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Re: The Canucks 2022 Offseason.

Post by Meds »

Madcombinepilot wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 12:14 pm Yeah, it needed an answer. Where was Kesler, Bieksa, Torres, Edler, etc, etc, etc...

Unless you have a guy willing to take an instigator in the playoffs, you take that shit and blame the reffing.

Rypien would have put paid to that shit. Dorsett as well.

Those types that can play and tilt are pretty rare.
It didn't need an answer from someone else necessarily (at least not after the fact), besides they were all scrumming in the crease. Daniel shouldn't have let a midget speed bag him like that. He should have hit back.....even if he ended up getting his salad tossed by the little bear you have to at least make him respect the fact that you aren't an easy meal ticket.
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Re: The Canucks 2022 Offseason.

Post by UWSaint »

Mëds wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 12:01 pm Pettersson and Hughes both are "tough" players. They have fire. But nobody is scared to target them because they can't standup for themselves against the assholes of the NHL. They don't run and hide, and we've seen them both give that chop or crosscheck back. It's the "Sedin" culture that I want to see gone in Vancouver. The Twins were also "tough" players, they just took a beating and kept on playing, but as leaders of the team they, and AV, created the culture that didn't have room for physical retaliation, which is sometimes the only way to police things in this league.
I totally get the difference between the players you mentioned and the ones I am describing. Like I said, a good NHL player who also has sandpaper is a plus, provided they pick their spots.

I've never known true agitators or heavyweights (not that the league employs these people) to ever be scared of going after a star because they might have to pay. If its their job, they do it knowing the consequences. I know Dave Semenko skating with Gretzky is often cited in this discussion -- have to have the heavy to deter! Semenko had, you know, between 100-200 penalty minutes a season. The reason is because other players went after the star players. And then there was a retaliation. And Semenko went after the star players, and there was a retaliation. Might there be some deterrence from a totally bat shit crazy player? A little. But the evidence that the heavy deters instead of makes them pay is kind of weak. Its a theory that discounts the idea that if you are getting paid to be a disruptor you've priced in the retaliation cost.

Moreover, in the games I see that don't involve the Canucks, you see star players get the late rub outs, the shoving, the extra slashes to the hand, all of the annoyances. I don't have any impression that Hughes and Pettersson are especially targeted vs. other guys that have similar profiles.

Ultimately, if the Canucks need sandpaper, it isn't for "patrol" duty. It is because every team can use a pest. Someone for the psych ops.
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Re: The Canucks 2022 Offseason.

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

Madcombinepilot wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 12:14 pm Yeah, it needed an answer. Where was Kesler, Bieksa, Torres, Edler, etc, etc, etc...

Unless you have a guy willing to take an instigator in the playoffs, you take that shit and blame the reffing.

Rypien would have put paid to that shit. Dorsett as well.

Those types that can play and tilt are pretty rare.
Rypien or Dorsett wouldn’t have made much difference in that series. Boston had four guys tougher than either of them
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Re: The Canucks 2022 Offseason.

Post by donlever »

Blob Mckenzie wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 1:00 pm
Madcombinepilot wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 12:14 pm Yeah, it needed an answer. Where was Kesler, Bieksa, Torres, Edler, etc, etc, etc...

Unless you have a guy willing to take an instigator in the playoffs, you take that shit and blame the reffing.

Rypien would have put paid to that shit. Dorsett as well.

Those types that can play and tilt are pretty rare.
Rypien or Dorsett wouldn’t have made much difference in that series. Boston had four guys tougher than either of them
They weren't necessary anyway I don't believe.......a healthy Kesler and Hamhuis and actual consistent quality goaltending from the Italian Stallion and we win irrespective of toughness.
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Re: The Canucks 2022 Offseason.

Post by Meds »

donlever wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 1:03 pm
Blob Mckenzie wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 1:00 pm
Madcombinepilot wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 12:14 pm Yeah, it needed an answer. Where was Kesler, Bieksa, Torres, Edler, etc, etc, etc...

Unless you have a guy willing to take an instigator in the playoffs, you take that shit and blame the reffing.

Rypien would have put paid to that shit. Dorsett as well.

Those types that can play and tilt are pretty rare.
Rypien or Dorsett wouldn’t have made much difference in that series. Boston had four guys tougher than either of them
They weren't necessary anyway I don't believe.......a healthy Kesler and Hamhuis and actual consistent quality goaltending from the Italian Stallion and we win irrespective of toughness.
We didn't even need much consistency. He stood on his head for 3 games and was the second coming of Cloutier vs Lidstrom in the other 4. All we needed was him to be consistent 57.14% of the time.....FFS. :mad:

And for him to keep his mouth shut about Thomas FFS. :mad:




:bang:




FFS. :crazy:
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