Max Cap Hits

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Madcombinepilot
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Re: Max Cap Hits

Post by Madcombinepilot »

Chef Boi RD wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 7:33 am Eventually you are going to have to sign one of your top players to a retirement contract as they all come to that eventually around there late 20’s. You just can’t keep showing the door to your top players when they are on the verge of their retirement contract due to fear, paranoia, angst, blah blah blah. You’ll never win a championship with that approach. Now the Senators management is saying “we need veterans, not enough vets on the team. What you need is a very strong balance of your 2 to 3 to 4 over 30 year olds, a strong middle age and a strong youthful element to the team. For my money, Miller is well worth keeping for merely the reason of how competitive and pissy he is and his he hates losing. You don’t let these leader types go. He’s heart and soul man.
St. Louis sure did.

Now, I agree that a team needs veterans for deep cup runs (look what Maroon brings to the table!), heck i could even agree on your age mix of players as well, but I disagree that one of those veterans has to be on a 'retirement contract'.

So we all are clear, I define 'retirement contract' as anything over 9% of the current cap, and 6 (or more) years signed after age 29 for a single player. Older Guys coming back at a 1 year term is not a 'Retirement Contract' IMO.... and neither is locking up a Hughes type for 8.5x8 (if we had done so)
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Re: Max Cap Hits

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Chef Boi RD wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 7:33 am Eventually you are going to have to sign one of your top players to a retirement contract as they all come to that eventually around there late 20’s. You just can’t keep showing the door to your top players when they are on the verge of their retirement contract due to fear, paranoia, angst, blah blah blah. You’ll never win a championship with that approach. Now the Senators management is saying “we need veterans, not enough vets on the team. What you need is a very strong balance of your 2 to 3 to 4 over 30 year olds, a strong middle age and a strong youthful element to the team. For my money, Miller is well worth keeping for merely the reason of how competitive and pissy he is and his he hates losing. You don’t let these leader types go. He’s heart and soul man.
Another weak post. Sketched with garbage.

No amount or term just blathering drunk about Ottawa.

You do you.
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Chef Boi RD
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Re: Max Cap Hits

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Do you consider JT Miller one of the Canucks best players? Had 7 less points than Stamkos this season.

Tampa Bay

McDonagh - 32 years old 4 years left after this on his $6.75 million per year contract

Hedman - 31 years old 3 years left $7.875 per year contract

Stamkos - 32 years old 1 year left in $8.5 million per year contract

Kucherov - 29 next month, 5 years left on $9.5 million per year contract
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Chef Boi RD
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Re: Max Cap Hits

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Blob Mckenzie wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 2:40 pm
Chef Boi RD wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 7:33 am Eventually you are going to have to sign one of your top players to a retirement contract as they all come to that eventually around there late 20’s. You just can’t keep showing the door to your top players when they are on the verge of their retirement contract due to fear, paranoia, angst, blah blah blah. You’ll never win a championship with that approach. Now the Senators management is saying “we need veterans, not enough vets on the team. What you need is a very strong balance of your 2 to 3 to 4 over 30 year olds, a strong middle age and a strong youthful element to the team. For my money, Miller is well worth keeping for merely the reason of how competitive and pissy he is and his he hates losing. You don’t let these leader types go. He’s heart and soul man.
Another weak post. Sketched with garbage.

No amount or term just blathering drunk about Ottawa.

You do you.
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Re: Max Cap Hits

Post by Meds »

Chef Boi RD wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 3:46 pm Do you consider JT Miller one of the Canucks best players? Had 7 less points than Stamkos this season.

Tampa Bay

McDonagh - 32 years old 4 years left after this on his $6.75 million per year contract

Hedman - 31 years old 3 years left $7.875 per year contract

Stamkos - 32 years old 1 year left in $8.5 million per year contract

Kucherov - 29 next month, 5 years left on $9.5 million per year contract
I don't understand the point of these examples.....are they your idea of retirement contracts?

Hedman signed an 8 year deal at 25 years old. NOT a retirement contract.

Stamkos signed an 8 year deal at 25 years old. NOT a retirement contract.

Kucherov signed an 8 year deal at 25 years old. NOT a retirement contract.

McDonagh signed a 7 year deal when he was 29.....probably one that Yzerman would redo considering the way Sergachev and Cernak have turned out.
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Chef Boi RD
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Re: Max Cap Hits

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Kucherov turns 29 in less than a month, he’s only 3 months younger than Miller he has 5 years left on his contract

McDonaugh is 32 and has 4 years left on his contract

Miller is 29 l, how is signing him to a 5 year contract that pays a little less than Kucherov’s $9.5 per year contract but a little more more than McDonagh’s $6.75 per year contract that are essentially retirement contracts as Millers retirement contract would be ending around close to where there’s are ending and age they will be at when they end? How is it erroneous we do the same with Miller?
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Re: Max Cap Hits

Post by Tciso »

Chef Boi RD wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 5:21 pm Kucherov turns 29 in less than a month, he’s only 3 months younger than Miller he has 5 years left on his contract

McDonaugh is 32 and has 4 years left on his contract

Miller is 29 l, how is signing him to a 5 year contract that pays a little less than Kucherov’s $9.5 per year contract but a little more more than McDonagh’s $6.75 per year contract that are essentially retirement contracts as Millers retirement contract would be ending around close to where there’s are ending and age they will be at when they end? How is it erroneous we do the same with Miller?

I think the majority of us here are advocating 5 years or less for JT. No problem. But, a 7 or 8 year deal is all about retirement. Hell, if he signs for 4 years, and his contract expires when kooch's does, gmjb might be demoted to "the almost as great as..."
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Chef Boi RD
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Re: Max Cap Hits

Post by Chef Boi RD »

5 years 8.5
“Tyler Myers is my guy... I was taking to Scotty Bowman last night and he was bringing up his name, and saying he’s a big guy and big guy need big minutes to play, he is playing great for ya… and I agree with him… He’s been exceptional” - Bruce Boudreau
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Re: Max Cap Hits

Post by Meds »

Chef Boi RD wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 5:21 pm Kucherov turns 29 in less than a month, he’s only 3 months younger than Miller he has 5 years left on his contract

McDonaugh is 32 and has 4 years left on his contract

Miller is 29 l, how is signing him to a 5 year contract that pays a little less than Kucherov’s $9.5 per year contract but a little more more than McDonagh’s $6.75 per year contract that are essentially retirement contracts as Millers retirement contract would be ending around close to where there’s are ending and age they will be at when they end? How is it erroneous we do the same with Miller?
Kucherov became a better than 1 ppg player after his second full NHL season.

Kucherov has been a 1st and 2nd team all-star, won a scoring title, a Hart trophy, and a Lindsay, he did 4 of these things in 2019 and then signed that monster deal. He followed that up by being a huge part of back-to-back Cups.

Kucherov also was a key piece on a team that had been a threat to win in the playoffs since 2015 and had incredible depth coming up or youngsters already playing on team friendly contracts who were signed for a few more seasons. Tampa can win again this year, but even if they don't they can go off the rails due to cap issues over the next 2 years and nobody will say shit because they won 2 Cups. They signed these contracts while they were in their window to compete, not before.

Miller, on the other hand, has won nothing. He has had 2 seasons of 1 ppg or better. He is not on a team that is a threat to win much at all for the next couple of years, the Canucks have almost zero in the pipeline, and only two young players contributing from ELC deals or bargain contracts.

We can live with JT Miller for $8M x 5, he's earned that. But we have to consider where we are in our timeline, and we aren't at a place where we should be handing out contracts that pay one player more than 10% of the total cap.

Benning drafted some talented players who are now the nucleus of our core group, but he did NOT build up the pipeline here like many thought he would. There's a reason that you stock up on draft picks when rebuilding/re-tooling, it's to maximize the number of players that might develop into NHL contributors. We have nothing of not in that regard.

Isn't it funny that Benning has left his successors with the same quality of prospect cupboard that he inherited from Gillis?
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Re: Max Cap Hits

Post by 2Fingers »

Mëds wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 7:35 am


Miller, on the other hand, has won nothing. He has had 2 seasons of 1 ppg or better. He is not on a team that is a threat to win much at all for the next couple of years, the Canucks have almost zero in the pipeline, and only two young players contributing from ELC deals or bargain contracts.

We can live with JT Miller for $8M x 5, he's earned that. But we have to consider where we are in our timeline, and we aren't at a place where we should be handing out contracts that pay one player more than 10% of the total cap.

Benning drafted some talented players who are now the nucleus of our core group, but he did NOT build up the pipeline here like many thought he would. There's a reason that you stock up on draft picks when rebuilding/re-tooling, it's to maximize the number of players that might develop into NHL contributors. We have nothing of not in that regard.
Well said Mëds, again IMHO we are not ready for a JT contract if it hinders the team in years 3+ of his new contract.
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Re: Max Cap Hits

Post by donlever »

This is a great debate and both sides make solid points.

Personally I could go either way (lay it on me Cuz) with it and see myself being happy with the end result.

I'll ask you this though Reef.

.....so years 3+ means 3 years from now forward as he is signed on for next year already.

Imagine this, the Canucks sign Miller and win a Cup 3 or 4 seasons from now with JT a driving force to team success (maybe he wins a Conn Smythe along the way for shits and giggles).

At that point do you really worry what happens after that with respect to the remainder of his deal?
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Re: Max Cap Hits

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donlever wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:55 am Imagine this, the Canucks sign Miller and win a Cup 3 or 4 seasons from now with JT a driving force to team success (maybe he wins a Conn Smythe along the way for shits and giggles).
At that point do you really worry what happens after that with respect to the remainder of his deal?
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Re: Max Cap Hits

Post by Meds »

donlever wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:55 am Imagine this, the Canucks sign Miller and win a Cup 3 or 4 seasons from now with JT a driving force to team success (maybe he wins a Conn Smythe along the way for shits and giggles).

At that point do you really worry what happens after that with respect to the remainder of his deal?
To stay with the Tampa Bay comparison.....

In that scenario JT Miller = our Steven Stamkos.

Although, Stammer took a discount.
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Re: Max Cap Hits

Post by donlever »

Mëds wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 11:07 am
donlever wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:55 am Imagine this, the Canucks sign Miller and win a Cup 3 or 4 seasons from now with JT a driving force to team success (maybe he wins a Conn Smythe along the way for shits and giggles).

At that point do you really worry what happens after that with respect to the remainder of his deal?
To stay with the Tampa Bay comparison.....

In that scenario JT Miller = our Steven Stamkos.

Although, Stammer took a discount.
....so we know that Miller won't?

(Rhetorical...)
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Re: Max Cap Hits

Post by 2Fingers »

donlever wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:55 am This is a great debate and both sides make solid points.

Personally I could go either way (lay it on me Cuz) with it and see myself being happy with the end result.

I'll ask you this though Reef.

.....so years 3+ means 3 years from now forward as he is signed on for next year already.

Imagine this, the Canucks sign Miller and win a Cup 3 or 4 seasons from now with JT a driving force to team success (maybe he wins a Conn Smythe along the way for shits and giggles).

At that point do you really worry what happens after that with respect to the remainder of his deal?
3 years into his new contract, 4 years from now. That is when I really expect this team to be contending. I actually expect them to be there in 2-3 seasons but then while they are in their prime they MAY have this boat anchor of a contract they have to unload. If he signs and leaves money on the table I’m all in.
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