What are the Canucks Missing to be a Contender?

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Todd Bersnoozi
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What are the Canucks Missing to be a Contender?

Post by Todd Bersnoozi »

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/snapsho ... ks-missing

This guy from the DailyHive thinks we're missing:
a) Matchup Centre man
b) Shut down D-man

Considering a lot of ppl think we won't even make the playoffs, I'm surprised someone in the media is talking missing pieces to be a contender. For me, I like what we have at Centre. Even though we don't have a Selke type like Kes in his prime or a Manny Malhotra, we do have a bunch of guys who can play that role: Sutts, BoHo and even Miller might be capable. I like the Hockey Gaud too and even though he's not a shutdown type, I'm hoping his offensive game will blossom and maybe he can be the 2C someday and Bo can play that heavy minute man 3C. I think Gauds can become a Jeremy Roenick/Mike Peca type, prob not as good defensively and dominating physically, but similar skill set and push 20G and 50 pts in his prime. I think Beags is a solid #4 centre as well.

For the most part, I like what we have on D. I have said b4 that Tanev+Stecher out and Schmidt+Hamonic in are huge upgrades. I think the piece we're missing is from the backend actually, but it's not a shutdown guy; I'll get to it later. Sure, we might not have a true Willie Mitchell/Dan Hamhuis/Chris Tanev shutdown guy, but we have a bunch of guys who are very good defensively. Edler is prob our best, but I think Benn, Hamonic, Myers and Schmidt can all play solid D as well. We'll also hopefully get the Tryamkinsaurus back next season and he has all the tools to become a defensive juggernaut for us. :P

OK, I have stated what I think we're missing in the past and it still has not been filled. I think we're missing a right-shot D man with a canon shot and can play top 4 minutes. Basically a Sami Salo type, minus the injuries. Even JB has been on the record saying the same thing. A few years ago someone asked him if he could add one thing to his team, what would be on his wish list? He answered exactly that. I was hoping the One-Eyed Rafferty would be that guy, but he looked pretty bad that 1 game this season. Maybe Victor Persson can be that guy, but considering where he was drafted, he'll be a long shot. I guess Myers is the closet thing we have to that thing right now, but I don't think his shot is good enuff from the point.

I actually wouldn't mind a tough guy who can play as well, basically a Ryan Reaves type. I wouldn't say it's a huge need though, more something that's nice to have. I'm hoping Big Mac can be that guy, maybe not as tuff as a true heavy weight, but more skilled than most 4th line tuff guys.

OK, let's hear it. You can be the armchair quarterback and be Jim Benning, what do you think this team needs to push it over the top?
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Re: What are the Canucks Missing to be a Contender?

Post by theman »

Didn't read the OP but I will add my 2 cents.

Probably in this order:

1. top level coaching
2. cap space to add at TDL
3. shut down D man that can play 22 - 25 minutes a night
4. A top 6 winger, preferably to play with Bo.
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Re: What are the Canucks Missing to be a Contender?

Post by Cherry Picker »

I don’t think the top six is fast enough. Hoglander is shifty and quick but not fast enough to drive play. He should be on the third line. Pearson and Boeser are average skaters. Podkolzin should be fast enough as well as Miller. I’d have Miller, Boeser and Podkolzin as the top six wingers and hope to find one more winger that can just fly.

Oh and a Chris Pronger type defenseman could also help. :roll:
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Re: What are the Canucks Missing to be a Contender?

Post by Meds »

Todd Bersnoozi wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:19 pm https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/snapsho ... ks-missing

This guy from the DailyHive thinks we're missing:
a) Matchup Centre man
b) Shut down D-man

Considering a lot of ppl think we won't even make the playoffs, I'm surprised someone in the media is talking missing pieces to be a contender. For me, I like what we have at Centre. Even though we don't have a Selke type like Kes in his prime or a Manny Malhotra, we do have a bunch of guys who can play that role: Sutts, BoHo and even Miller might be capable.
I think Horvat is far more capable than people give him credit for, but he's been forced to play a greater offensive role, and is always dragging slugs around on his wings. Swap out Pearson for someone with some speed and skill and with Hoglander on the other side I think Bo can start to focus a bit more on the defensive side of the game.
I like the Hockey Gaud too and even though he's not a shutdown type, I'm hoping his offensive game will blossom and maybe he can be the 2C someday and Bo can play that heavy minute man 3C. I think Gauds can become a Jeremy Roenick/Mike Peca type, prob not as good defensively and dominating physically, but similar skill set and push 20G and 50 pts in his prime.
So he's not physical, nor is he all that good defensively, which were hallmarks of those two guys you compare him to, but that's what you think he can become.....

Do you wake up thinking about what could be the most outlandishly inane thing you can contribute on here?
I think Beags is a solid #4 centre as well.
Beagle was a solid #4. He's lost a step, and he didn't have much to lose to start with in terms of speed. His battle and faceoffs are still very good, but at this point when his contract is up, we don't re-sign him unless it's for < $1M.
OK, let's hear it. You can be the armchair quarterback and be Jim Benning, what do you think this team needs to push it over the top?
A new coach who will bench a vet if said vet isn't playing. Also one who can instill the need for team and system, something that these guys all preach but often don't walk out. Oh, and he needs to be capable of drafting a PP that actually does more than stand still.

3C - Horvat is a top-6 guy, and I can't think of many teams who had an effective captain playing in the bottom-6. Gaudette is not what some people think he is. He's go bottom-6 skills, and above average speed, but he has the frame of Wayne. Sorry, but get a return on him while some idiot GM thinks there's something there.

4C - As I said, Beagle is too slow now. Need a guy who can win faceoffs and grind hard at both ends.

Top-6 Winger - One with wheels and a nose for distributing the puck. Horvat and Hog are shoot first guys. Pearson is a dump and chase guy but he doesn't have the wheels to chase.

A pair of Bottom-6 Wingers - Roussel is sporadic and a pest. Loui is, well, Loui. Jake is not going to put it together in Vancouver at this point. They need guys who can skate and hit.....and will hit. And I'm talking the kind of hits that the other team feels. Not the oh no here come Tyler Motte with endless enthusiasm but basically bounces off of bigger defenders.

Top-4 RS D - Our blueline is a mess. Hughes is the only guy that I even care to keep long term. Sure Hamonic, Edler, and Schmidt can all come back, but I think each of them is replaceable on some level.

A cheaper backup goalie. Holtby is way too expensive.

Let me qualify the coaching and bottow-6 wingers portions. We may actually have pieces in the system that could fill these roles, however they won't get the opportunity to do this under Green.
Last edited by Meds on Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What are the Canucks Missing to be a Contender?

Post by Vin Tanner »

A new management and coaching staff to start :D
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Re: What are the Canucks Missing to be a Contender?

Post by Strangelove »

^Jimmy Forever, deal with it Doyle! :thumbs:
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Re: What are the Canucks Missing to be a Contender?

Post by Cherry Picker »

Bure and Pronger.
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Re: What are the Canucks Missing to be a Contender?

Post by Todd Bersnoozi »

Meds wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:45 pm Gaudette is not what some people think he is. He's go bottom-6 skills, and above average speed, but he has the frame of Wayne. Sorry, but get a return on him while some idiot GM thinks there's something there.
So he's not physical, nor is he all that good defensively, which were hallmarks of those two guys you compare him to, but that's what you think he can become.....
OK then Mr. Smarty Pants, who do u compare Gauds to? CoHo? I think Gauds is a way better 2-way player than Cody though and a better skater. Gauds is looking better as the season progresses and I think finally getting a healthy diet will pay huge dividends for him. Heck, Petey has the frame of Wayne and he battles hard out there and looks fine. When all is said and done, I think Gauds in his prime will put up better numbers than Mike Peca, but JRs numbers will be hard to beat. Gauds will also be an important piece for this team when we finally win a Cup. :P

A new coach who will bench a vet if said vet isn't playing. Also one who can instill the need for team and system, something that these guys all preach but often don't walk out. Oh, and he needs to be capable of drafting a PP that actually does more than stand still.
I'm fine with Greener. If it were my call, I prob would have canned him when we totally stunk coming out of the gate. He seemed to have turned things around though. If he makes the playoffs, I think JB and ownership will extend him; if we miss, they'll prob let him go and get an experienced guy to try to push this team to the next lvl. I'm fine either way.
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Re: What are the Canucks Missing to be a Contender?

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Strangelove wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:18 pm ^Jimmy Forever, deal with it Doyle! :thumbs:
:lol:
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Re: What are the Canucks Missing to be a Contender?

Post by Meds »

Todd Bersnoozi wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:51 am
Meds wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:45 pm Gaudette is not what some people think he is. He's go bottom-6 skills, and above average speed, but he has the frame of Wayne. Sorry, but get a return on him while some idiot GM thinks there's something there.
So he's not physical, nor is he all that good defensively, which were hallmarks of those two guys you compare him to, but that's what you think he can become.....
OK then Mr. Smarty Pants, who do u compare Gauds to? CoHo? I think Gauds is a way better 2-way player than Cody though and a better skater. Gauds is looking better as the season progresses and I think finally getting a healthy diet will pay huge dividends for him. Heck, Petey has the frame of Wayne and he battles hard out there and looks fine. When all is said and done, I think Gauds in his prime will put up better numbers than Mike Peca, but JRs numbers will be hard to beat. Gauds will also be an important piece for this team when we finally win a Cup. :P

A new coach who will bench a vet if said vet isn't playing. Also one who can instill the need for team and system, something that these guys all preach but often don't walk out. Oh, and he needs to be capable of drafting a PP that actually does more than stand still.
I'm fine with Greener. If it were my call, I prob would have canned him when we totally stunk coming out of the gate. He seemed to have turned things around though. If he makes the playoffs, I think JB and ownership will extend him; if we miss, they'll prob let him go and get an experienced guy to try to push this team to the next lvl. I'm fine either way.
Why are we even talking about Hodgson? I've never compared them, but maybe that might be a close one in terms of what's really there versus what some people think is there. Gaudette is the second coming of Mason Raymond.....just a bit slower and at center. If Gaudette is still even a NHL player when Vancouver wins the cup he will be a non-factor in said win.
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Re: What are the Canucks Missing to be a Contender?

Post by Madcombinepilot »

They are missing about 15 more wins in a regular season.
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Re: What are the Canucks Missing to be a Contender?

Post by UWSaint »

Better Complementary parts/depth, unless being a contender requires a true #1 all situations defensemen. Hughes is not that now, though it is possible he will become that. Otherwise, the core is good enough to build a contender around.

I don’t think there’s another position as valuable to a Stanley Cup winner than the kind of player that can provide plus defense plus offense and eat up 25 minutes or more when needed. There are only about 8-12 players that satisfy this definition at any one time, and Cup winners often have them. Hedman, Pietrangelo, and Carlson all fit this definition. Pittsburgh is the only cup winner in recent memory that didn’t quite have this player. Their closest player to this was Letang, but he was injured during one cup run and didn’t quite meet this definition even when he was playing at his best.

Before the Pens back to backs, it was Keith and Doughty leading their teams to cups; both met this definition.

I don’t think the true #1 defenseman is a necessary component of a cup winning team. And almost all cup teams will have exemplary players somewhere in their lineup — they are winning the most intense long form tournament of the best players in the world. But I think of all the components cup teams have, this is the one that stands out as being most helpful.
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Re: What are the Canucks Missing to be a Contender?

Post by Meds »

UWSaint wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:00 am Better Complementary parts/depth, unless being a contender requires a true #1 all situations defensemen. Hughes is not that now, though it is possible he will become that. Otherwise, the core is good enough to build a contender around.

I don’t think there’s another position as valuable to a Stanley Cup winner than the kind of player that can provide plus defense plus offense and eat up 25 minutes or more when needed. There are only about 8-12 players that satisfy this definition at any one time, and Cup winners often have them. Hedman, Pietrangelo, and Carlson all fit this definition. Pittsburgh is the only cup winner in recent memory that didn’t quite have this player. Their closest player to this was Letang, but he was injured during one cup run and didn’t quite meet this definition even when he was playing at his best.

Before the Pens back to backs, it was Keith and Doughty leading their teams to cups; both met this definition.

I don’t think the true #1 defenseman is a necessary component of a cup winning team. And almost all cup teams will have exemplary players somewhere in their lineup — they are winning the most intense long form tournament of the best players in the world. But I think of all the components cup teams have, this is the one that stands out as being most helpful.
Although it doesn't hurt having Crosby and Malkin as a one-two punch up front. :lol:

Pens always got timely goaltending and had two of the top-5 centers in the league. They used to say that the key components to a winner are an elite goaltender, an elite center, and that horse on the blueline. They swapped the horse from the blueline and added one at center.
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Re: What are the Canucks Missing to be a Contender?

Post by rikster »

Age...

Looking at the top teams around the league core groups of 3 forwards and 1 dman and 1 goalie, you find the average ages are;


Tampa's 27.8

Vegas 29.8

Toronto 27.8

Florida 28.6

Colorado 25.6

Edmonton 28

By comparison, Vancouver's is 24 and that includes JT Miller and not Bo Horvat who would have brought the average down to 23.5 years

The Canucks are at least 2 to 3 years away from being in that top tier of teams who are serious Cup contenders...

So while some on this board and the media and a segment of Nuck Nation continues to moan and whine about Eriksson and Beagle and Sutter, the reality is that it doesn't matter who is in the teams bottom 6 today or next season if you are talking about winning a Cup, it's about the teams core group continuing to grow and develop as players...

The time for debate on who is and who isn't on the third and fourth lines and bottom 2 blueline pairings is for another day...another day 2 or 3 years from now ...

And not to bring up an old and tired debate, but that is why Benning and company chose to overpay for Beagle and Sutter and those type of players, it was to insulate and teach the young core group of kids how to be a pro...

Last offseason was a big test for me with regards to my faith in Benning...

Would he go down the road of handing out long term contracts like he has in the past for players who likely will not be key members on the team when it is ready to compete or would he begin to change the business model regarding contracts?

For me he passed that test with a big kudos for making the tough decision to walk away from the Markstrom contract and putting his faith in Demko...

Next up is how will he handle those dreaded second contracts to some of the best young players in the game?


Take care...
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Re: What are the Canucks Missing to be a Contender?

Post by rikster »

UWSaint wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:00 am Better Complementary parts/depth, unless being a contender requires a true #1 all situations defensemen. Hughes is not that now, though it is possible he will become that. Otherwise, the core is good enough to build a contender around.

I don’t think there’s another position as valuable to a Stanley Cup winner than the kind of player that can provide plus defense plus offense and eat up 25 minutes or more when needed. There are only about 8-12 players that satisfy this definition at any one time, and Cup winners often have them. Hedman, Pietrangelo, and Carlson all fit this definition. Pittsburgh is the only cup winner in recent memory that didn’t quite have this player. Their closest player to this was Letang, but he was injured during one cup run and didn’t quite meet this definition even when he was playing at his best.

Before the Pens back to backs, it was Keith and Doughty leading their teams to cups; both met this definition.

I don’t think the true #1 defenseman is a necessary component of a cup winning team. And almost all cup teams will have exemplary players somewhere in their lineup — they are winning the most intense long form tournament of the best players in the world. But I think of all the components cup teams have, this is the one that stands out as being most helpful.
When I posted my thoughts about age being the greatest obstacle to the Canucks winning a Cup I thought of the Black Hawks during their Cup runs...

The best core group of players in the league who ate up most of their cap and every year they would cycle new players into their lineup to replace secondary players who they couldn't afford to keep and it didn't matter because they always had that core group...

We in Vancouver are so concerned with the secondary players as if they will get the team closer to the Cup...

There will come a day when they become key members of a deep Cup run, but that day is a few years away and when that day comes those debates will be more relevant...

Take care..
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