Early Coaching Change? Yay or Nay.

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Should Benning try righting the ship by making a change behind the bench? If so with who?

Yes - Gerard Gallant
16
50%
Yes - Mike Babcock
1
3%
Yes - Bruce Boudreau
1
3%
Yes - Adam Oates
1
3%
Yes - Randy Carlyle
0
No votes
No
13
41%
 
Total votes: 32

Ronning's Ghost
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Re: Early Coaching Change? Yay or Nay.

Post by Ronning's Ghost »

Meds wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:32 am
Yeah. It's a construction thing...
This is a fair and balanced assessment and I agree with most of it.
Meds wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:32 am
It's all in the build right now, and we won't get a real picture of what Benning can build until this new core has matured and the augmenting pieces coming in reflect the fact that they are joining a team with a stable core of players.

Pettersson, Horvat, Boeser, Hughes, and Demko, are pieces of a core that you can build around. It needs at least one more piece, a blueliner to pair with Hughes.....unless Quinn magically develops a defensive game that is at this point not there. Some could argue that Miller fits in there, if he does then great, if he doesn't then you need a legit winger for Bo too.
The thing is, how long do you give him? (Yeah, I keep asking that, but nobody's answer has ever been longer than seven off-seasons.) Benning is now the 11th longest tenured GM in the league, but his team has the third worst record. If he could build a winning team, he would have done so by now.
theman wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:04 am I know it would never happen but I would love to see the Canucks demote Benning to an AGM / head of scouting position in the organization. Just don't let him anywhere near contract negotiations.
You can't do exactly that -- at least not by that name -- but you could bring in someone to oversee Benning and save him from himself (and ownership?) in the form of the POHO Doyle recommends. Benning's title doesn't change, but he's in charge of scouting and drafting, and only those things. Someone else does the rest of the GM job.
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Re: Early Coaching Change? Yay or Nay.

Post by Micky »

Ronning's Ghost wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:02 am
Meds wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:32 am
Yeah. It's a construction thing...
This is a fair and balanced assessment and I agree with most of it.

You can't do exactly that -- at least not by that name -- but you could bring in someone to oversee Benning and save him from himself (and ownership?) in the form of the POHO Doyle recommends. Benning's title doesn't change, but he's in charge of scouting and drafting, and only those things. Someone else does the rest of the GM job.
Many interesting opinions / takes on Benning, (some) I agree with, others, not so much, but what about Travis Green? No problem there?
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Re: Early Coaching Change? Yay or Nay.

Post by Cousin Strawberry »

Ronning's Ghost wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:47 am
The Brown Wizard wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:50 am The trouble with moving on from Benning is hes by far and away the best GM the organization has ever had at drafting talent. Some of these picks are brilliant. Imagine going back to drafting rubbish again...fuck
Maybe think about it like this: Getting excited about Benning's draft picks is like being excited about how hot your psycho-bitch girlfriend is. Yes, she's fun and exciting, but she spent all your money, wrecked your car, and is mean to your dog. Overall your life is bad.

Benning's draft picks are fun and exciting, but he can manage neither assets, nor the cap, not the expectations of short-sighted owners. Overall, your hockey team is bad.

The thing is, unlike being your girlfriend, General Manager of a major professional sports franchise is a desirable and sought-after position. The Canucks could get someone hot, and reasonable to live with.
:lol:

Gold!

One thing tho...i used to love going back and re-tapping the ex's. Fuck i swear i was hell bent on destroying myself back then for one more taste of that pie
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Re: Early Coaching Change? Yay or Nay.

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Ronning's Ghost wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:47 am
The Brown Wizard wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:50 am The trouble with moving on from Benning is hes by far and away the best GM the organization has ever had at drafting talent. Some of these picks are brilliant. Imagine going back to drafting rubbish again...fuck
Maybe think about it like this: Getting excited about Benning's draft picks is like being excited about how hot your psycho-bitch girlfriend is. Yes, she's fun and exciting, but she spent all your money, wrecked your car, and is mean to your dog. Overall your life is bad.

Benning's draft picks are fun and exciting, but he can manage neither assets, nor the cap, nor the expectations of short-sighted owners. Overall, your hockey team is bad.

The thing is, unlike being your girlfriend, General Manager of a major professional sports franchise is a desirable and sought-after position. The Canucks could get someone hot, and reasonable to live with.
Gotta love HF-RG
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Re: Early Coaching Change? Yay or Nay.

Post by Meds »

Ronning's Ghost wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:02 am
Meds wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:32 am
Yeah. It's a construction thing...
This is a fair and balanced assessment and I agree with most of it.
Meds wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:32 am
It's all in the build right now, and we won't get a real picture of what Benning can build until this new core has matured and the augmenting pieces coming in reflect the fact that they are joining a team with a stable core of players.

Pettersson, Horvat, Boeser, Hughes, and Demko, are pieces of a core that you can build around. It needs at least one more piece, a blueliner to pair with Hughes.....unless Quinn magically develops a defensive game that is at this point not there. Some could argue that Miller fits in there, if he does then great, if he doesn't then you need a legit winger for Bo too.
The thing is, how long do you give him? (Yeah, I keep asking that, but nobody's answer has ever been longer than seven off-seasons.) Benning is now the 11th longest tenured GM in the league, but his team has the third worst record. If he could build a winning team, he would have done so by now.
Honestly, when it comes to building a winning team, I don't personally count the first 3 seasons he was here. He was essentially trying to salvage something from nothing with orders to turn an aging and declining core into something that could compete IN the playoffs. It couldn't. The Sedin's effectiveness in the post-season ended in 2012.

When Linden left that's when I see the rebuild officially being on.
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Re: Early Coaching Change? Yay or Nay.

Post by Vin Tanner »

Meds wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:05 pm
Ronning's Ghost wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:02 am
Meds wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:32 am
Yeah. It's a construction thing...
This is a fair and balanced assessment and I agree with most of it.
Meds wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:32 am
It's all in the build right now, and we won't get a real picture of what Benning can build until this new core has matured and the augmenting pieces coming in reflect the fact that they are joining a team with a stable core of players.

Pettersson, Horvat, Boeser, Hughes, and Demko, are pieces of a core that you can build around. It needs at least one more piece, a blueliner to pair with Hughes.....unless Quinn magically develops a defensive game that is at this point not there. Some could argue that Miller fits in there, if he does then great, if he doesn't then you need a legit winger for Bo too.
The thing is, how long do you give him? (Yeah, I keep asking that, but nobody's answer has ever been longer than seven off-seasons.) Benning is now the 11th longest tenured GM in the league, but his team has the third worst record. If he could build a winning team, he would have done so by now.
Honestly, when it comes to building a winning team, I don't personally count the first 3 seasons he was here. He was essentially trying to salvage something from nothing with orders to turn an aging and declining core into something that could compete IN the playoffs. It couldn't. The Sedin's effectiveness in the post-season ended in 2012.

When Linden left that's when I see the rebuild officially being on.
It doesn’t excuse the cap manglement that has occurred throughout his entire tenure. Benning has no grasp of the cap and he has no gauge for player value.
We wan out of da time- James Elmer Benning
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Re: Early Coaching Change? Yay or Nay.

Post by Micky »

Doyle Hargraves wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:07 pm
It doesn’t excuse the cap manglement that has occurred throughout his entire tenure. Benning has no grasp of the cap and he has no gauge for player value.
Agree it could be much better but history has clearly shown Vancouver is a tough sell to high end players. Just saying.
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Re: Early Coaching Change? Yay or Nay.

Post by Meds »

Micky wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:33 pm
Doyle Hargraves wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:07 pm
It doesn’t excuse the cap manglement that has occurred throughout his entire tenure. Benning has no grasp of the cap and he has no gauge for player value.
Agree it could be much better but history has clearly shown Vancouver is a tough sell to high end players. Just saying.
Canadian teams in general are a tough sell to high end players when they hit UFA status. Burke was saying that the other day on RSN, he said it was painful to watch even with the talented Canadian kids when it was contract time and they were adding NTC's to the contracts, all of the Canadian teams were on the no trade lists because of the tax structure.

Realistically a Canadian team should have won a Cup at least once in the last 28 years. There's a reason the talent goes south.
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Re: Early Coaching Change? Yay or Nay.

Post by SKYO »

Meds wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:37 pm
Micky wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:33 pm
Doyle Hargraves wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:07 pm
It doesn’t excuse the cap manglement that has occurred throughout his entire tenure. Benning has no grasp of the cap and he has no gauge for player value.
Agree it could be much better but history has clearly shown Vancouver is a tough sell to high end players. Just saying.
Canadian teams in general are a tough sell to high end players when they hit UFA status. Burke was saying that the other day on RSN, he said it was painful to watch even with the talented Canadian kids when it was contract time and they were adding NTC's to the contracts, all of the Canadian teams were on the no trade lists because of the tax structure.

Realistically a Canadian team should have won a Cup at least once in the last 28 years. There's a reason the talent goes south.
Why it's best to have a good scouting department for the Canucks, the players drafted tend to stay long-term here.
A long time ago, a baseball player remarked: "If I owned a ballclub, I'd hire a $5,000 coach and a $15,000 scout."
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Re: Early Coaching Change? Yay or Nay.

Post by Meds »

SKYO wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:40 pm
Meds wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:37 pm
Micky wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:33 pm
Doyle Hargraves wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:07 pm
It doesn’t excuse the cap manglement that has occurred throughout his entire tenure. Benning has no grasp of the cap and he has no gauge for player value.
Agree it could be much better but history has clearly shown Vancouver is a tough sell to high end players. Just saying.
Canadian teams in general are a tough sell to high end players when they hit UFA status. Burke was saying that the other day on RSN, he said it was painful to watch even with the talented Canadian kids when it was contract time and they were adding NTC's to the contracts, all of the Canadian teams were on the no trade lists because of the tax structure.

Realistically a Canadian team should have won a Cup at least once in the last 28 years. There's a reason the talent goes south.
Why it's best to have a good scouting department for the Canucks, the players drafted tend to stay long-term here.
Time will tell.

We haven't drafted superstar talent very often. The Sedin's were special in that they had loyalty to Vancouver.

We'll see what Petey and Hughes do.
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Re: Early Coaching Change? Yay or Nay.

Post by SKYO »

Meds wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:43 pm
SKYO wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:40 pm
Meds wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:37 pm
Micky wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:33 pm
Doyle Hargraves wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:07 pm
It doesn’t excuse the cap manglement that has occurred throughout his entire tenure. Benning has no grasp of the cap and he has no gauge for player value.
Agree it could be much better but history has clearly shown Vancouver is a tough sell to high end players. Just saying.
Canadian teams in general are a tough sell to high end players when they hit UFA status. Burke was saying that the other day on RSN, he said it was painful to watch even with the talented Canadian kids when it was contract time and they were adding NTC's to the contracts, all of the Canadian teams were on the no trade lists because of the tax structure.

Realistically a Canadian team should have won a Cup at least once in the last 28 years. There's a reason the talent goes south.
Why it's best to have a good scouting department for the Canucks, the players drafted tend to stay long-term here.
Time will tell.

We haven't drafted superstar talent very often. The Sedin's were special in that they had loyalty to Vancouver.

We'll see what Petey and Hughes do.
In either case, it's much much easier drafting/developing than trying to trade for a #1C #1D or sign one via UFA....drafting is the way to go towards success.

Those two'll re-sign, probably close at the same time as they both have the same agency I think?
A long time ago, a baseball player remarked: "If I owned a ballclub, I'd hire a $5,000 coach and a $15,000 scout."
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Re: Early Coaching Change? Yay or Nay.

Post by Meds »

SKYO wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:06 pm
Meds wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:43 pm
SKYO wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:40 pm
Meds wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:37 pm
Micky wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:33 pm
Doyle Hargraves wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:07 pm
It doesn’t excuse the cap manglement that has occurred throughout his entire tenure. Benning has no grasp of the cap and he has no gauge for player value.
Agree it could be much better but history has clearly shown Vancouver is a tough sell to high end players. Just saying.
Canadian teams in general are a tough sell to high end players when they hit UFA status. Burke was saying that the other day on RSN, he said it was painful to watch even with the talented Canadian kids when it was contract time and they were adding NTC's to the contracts, all of the Canadian teams were on the no trade lists because of the tax structure.

Realistically a Canadian team should have won a Cup at least once in the last 28 years. There's a reason the talent goes south.
Why it's best to have a good scouting department for the Canucks, the players drafted tend to stay long-term here.
Time will tell.

We haven't drafted superstar talent very often. The Sedin's were special in that they had loyalty to Vancouver.

We'll see what Petey and Hughes do.
In either case, it's much much easier drafting/developing than trying to trade for a #1C #1D or sign one via UFA....drafting is the way to go towards success.

Those two'll re-sign, probably close at the same time as they both have the same agency I think?
The problem I have with that is that Pettersson looks like he's going to turn into a legit 1C, I don't think he's ever going to be a franchise caliber player, but he's definitely top talent. But his inconsistency this season is troubling, and I'm seeing a ton of hesitation in his game at times. Hughes? I'm less sold on. I think he's going to be a more talented version of Tyson Barrie. Top pairing guy? Yes, based on point production. However, he doesn't scream stud blueliner right now, his defensive game is too weak. I'd be very hesitant to pin the future of the franchise on these guys with long term deals.
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Re: Early Coaching Change? Yay or Nay.

Post by Curmudgeon »

Season is over, might as well ride it out now and let Green scorch the earth playing Sutter as 3rd line center and Virtanen in the top 6 and take the lottery pick. The only trades I'd consider are for picks but Pearson is the only marketable pending UFA they have and Virtanen might return something with salary retention of a million or so. Would be hilarious and the ultimate Benning move to deal a 2nd rounder to the Wings for Stecher though.

In the offseason they need to add a POHO and new GM and coaching staff less Clark. They can start the POHO search immediately. Then I'd be willing to listen on every single player they have.
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Re: Early Coaching Change? Yay or Nay.

Post by SKYO »

Meds wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:34 pm
SKYO wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:06 pm In either case, it's much much easier drafting/developing than trying to trade for a #1C #1D or sign one via UFA....drafting is the way to go towards success.

Those two'll re-sign, probably close at the same time as they both have the same agency I think?
The problem I have with that is that Pettersson looks like he's going to turn into a legit 1C, I don't think he's ever going to be a franchise caliber player, but he's definitely top talent. But his inconsistency this season is troubling, and I'm seeing a ton of hesitation in his game at times. Hughes? I'm less sold on. I think he's going to be a more talented version of Tyson Barrie. Top pairing guy? Yes, based on point production. However, he doesn't scream stud blueliner right now, his defensive game is too weak. I'd be very hesitant to pin the future of the franchise on these guys with long term deals.
Precisely why you don't go full 8 years/max contract on them just yet, that rarely works in the cap era, the Cup teams always 'medium' bridge their potential franchise players, the team gets em at somewhat decent AAV for about 5 years, the player gets comfortable with the team, the team grows/develops and from there they can then sign the mega 8 yr deals if they are indeed legit franchise types.
A long time ago, a baseball player remarked: "If I owned a ballclub, I'd hire a $5,000 coach and a $15,000 scout."
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Re: Early Coaching Change? Yay or Nay.

Post by Micky »

Curmudgeon wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:15 pm Season is over, might as well ride it out now and let Green scorch the earth playing Sutter as 3rd line center and Virtanen in the top 6 and take the lottery pick. The only trades I'd consider are for picks but Pearson is the only marketable pending UFA they have and Virtanen might return something with salary retention of a million or so. Would be hilarious and the ultimate Benning move to deal a 2nd rounder to the Wings for Stecher though.

In the offseason they need to add a POHO and new GM and coaching staff less Clark. They can start the POHO search immediately. Then I'd be willing to listen on every single player they have.
Folks love to overreact. A POHO is a good idea but not like what Linden was. With hardly any revenue coming to the owners this year and we'll see about next, I cannot imagine millions of $$ are going to be spent on non player personell. I think that vote of confidence recently from Francesco was
his way of saying that in an around the backdoor kind of way. The financial situation is going to be at it's worst by the end of what looks to be, a non playoff campaign.
BUT: I don't think Green's wages are all that high and I certainly would not be adverse to punting him now and putting a quality coach with some experience in there for the rest of this year and see what shakes out. This team is not as bad as their record indicates. Generally this points to the coach, IMO.
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