Goalies moving forward.
Moderator: Referees
Re: Goalies moving forward.
I don't think picking up the phone and giving Markstrom's agent a final offer, take it or leave it, is the way to go.
I think you ask Markstrom and his agent what they are seeking. Outline the situation. Then tell them here is the max I can go right now in terms of salary and term. Then discuss expansion draft protection and let them know that if Marky is willing to take a one-year deal it might change things next year. It puts the ball back in Markstrom's court really.
I also don't think that trading his rights is going to make the players turn on management. Players want to play for a GM who is committed to putting together a winning group. They all know that guys have to move on at times because of the salary cap.
Over the long term will Bo, Petey, Hughes, and Boeser, be happier with Benning because he kept Markstrom (for a few years of top play), leaving no room for Demko, and a few others, or will they be happier with moves that make the Canucks competitive with a legitimate shot at winning for the next 5-10 years?
It sucks. But it's the business. There was a time when I got really attached to players, perhaps overestimating their talent, and wanted them kept around because they had been a fixture on the team an there was a fanboy allegiance.....and honestly Markstrom is probably one of my all-time favorite Canucks. He's been a fantastic goalie for us for the past 2 years, he's a really good success story coming from almost being a league washout to buying in, dedicating himself with Ian Clarke, and finally hitting his original potential (albeit as a late bloomer). On top of that he's clearly a team first personality. All that being said, if the cap was still looking to go up year-to-year, I'd say you make it work. However, thanks to current events (and the upcoming expansion draft) Markstrom, and many other players out there, will have to decide what's important to them, the big payday or staying where they are with a shot at winning.
If I was in Markstrom's shoes, and I wanted to stick with the team, I would be tempted to gamble on myself and sign a 1 year extension between 4.5M and 5M to stay in Vancouver and see where the chips fall next season.
I think you ask Markstrom and his agent what they are seeking. Outline the situation. Then tell them here is the max I can go right now in terms of salary and term. Then discuss expansion draft protection and let them know that if Marky is willing to take a one-year deal it might change things next year. It puts the ball back in Markstrom's court really.
I also don't think that trading his rights is going to make the players turn on management. Players want to play for a GM who is committed to putting together a winning group. They all know that guys have to move on at times because of the salary cap.
Over the long term will Bo, Petey, Hughes, and Boeser, be happier with Benning because he kept Markstrom (for a few years of top play), leaving no room for Demko, and a few others, or will they be happier with moves that make the Canucks competitive with a legitimate shot at winning for the next 5-10 years?
It sucks. But it's the business. There was a time when I got really attached to players, perhaps overestimating their talent, and wanted them kept around because they had been a fixture on the team an there was a fanboy allegiance.....and honestly Markstrom is probably one of my all-time favorite Canucks. He's been a fantastic goalie for us for the past 2 years, he's a really good success story coming from almost being a league washout to buying in, dedicating himself with Ian Clarke, and finally hitting his original potential (albeit as a late bloomer). On top of that he's clearly a team first personality. All that being said, if the cap was still looking to go up year-to-year, I'd say you make it work. However, thanks to current events (and the upcoming expansion draft) Markstrom, and many other players out there, will have to decide what's important to them, the big payday or staying where they are with a shot at winning.
If I was in Markstrom's shoes, and I wanted to stick with the team, I would be tempted to gamble on myself and sign a 1 year extension between 4.5M and 5M to stay in Vancouver and see where the chips fall next season.
Re: Goalies moving forward.
So you're basically asking those guys to sign back on for the exact same, or cheaper.....theman wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:50 am Yes, exactly. One reason why I think the Canucks have a good shot at bringing back Taffoli, Tanev and Markstrom. this a very weird situation for everyone and a horrible time to be a RFA, UFA. Doubt a lot of guys will get that payday they were hoping for and can see a lot of guys signing 1 year deals hoping that next off season will be better for them.
If the playoffs taught us one thing it's that we need a stronger, smarter, blueline, and that only happens with a change in personnel.....namely adding without subtracting from our current top-4.
For the Canucks to move forward they need to add some quality.
Re: Goalies moving forward.
I don't think a lot of these guys will get the payday they were hoping for, before Covid, but I don't disagree with you that we need to upgrade our blue line. Don't think Stretcher will be back, probably be replaced by Joulevi and we will probably see another new D man come in, possibly via trade. I was just sayinng, I do see a situation where we bring all 3 of those players mentioned before coming back.Mëds wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:08 amSo you're basically asking those guys to sign back on for the exact same, or cheaper.....theman wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:50 am Yes, exactly. One reason why I think the Canucks have a good shot at bringing back Taffoli, Tanev and Markstrom. this a very weird situation for everyone and a horrible time to be a RFA, UFA. Doubt a lot of guys will get that payday they were hoping for and can see a lot of guys signing 1 year deals hoping that next off season will be better for them.
If the playoffs taught us one thing it's that we need a stronger, smarter, blueline, and that only happens with a change in personnel.....namely adding without subtracting from our current top-4.
For the Canucks to move forward they need to add some quality.
Re: Goalies moving forward.
I agree that many free agents will not get the payday they were anticipating in September 2019 if they had a strong season. However I can't see any of them taking a paycut. I can see Tanev coming back at the same price or for a $500K raise.....he bleeds blue and green. Markstrom isn't in Vancouver, or anywhere for that matter, next season at less than at least a $2M raise. Toffoli will totally depend on term, and thanks to some subpar seasons in LA since his last contract signing we might get him for a very modest raise. But to take the next step we need to add something more on top of them.theman wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:49 amI don't think a lot of these guys will get the payday they were hoping for, before Covid, but I don't disagree with you that we need to upgrade our blue line. Don't think Stretcher will be back, probably be replaced by Joulevi and we will probably see another new D man come in, possibly via trade. I was just sayinng, I do see a situation where we bring all 3 of those players mentioned before coming back.Mëds wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:08 amSo you're basically asking those guys to sign back on for the exact same, or cheaper.....theman wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:50 am Yes, exactly. One reason why I think the Canucks have a good shot at bringing back Taffoli, Tanev and Markstrom. this a very weird situation for everyone and a horrible time to be a RFA, UFA. Doubt a lot of guys will get that payday they were hoping for and can see a lot of guys signing 1 year deals hoping that next off season will be better for them.
If the playoffs taught us one thing it's that we need a stronger, smarter, blueline, and that only happens with a change in personnel.....namely adding without subtracting from our current top-4.
For the Canucks to move forward they need to add some quality.
Couple that with the shitty COVID market and it's even harder to picture anyone taking one of Eriksson, Sutter, or Baertschi, off our hands without us retaining salary.....which in the latter two cases we should consider as it helps this season and then they are off the books.
That's why I can see a situation where we bring back 2 of those 3 guys.
I think priority one should be Tanev. The right side of our blueline cannot afford to lose him.
Then it's a toss-up between Markstrom and Toffoli. Markstrom is the obvious choice, however he's also the guy we have the best chance of replacing for a fraction of the cost next year thanks to Demko.
Re: Goalies moving forward.
I agree Tanev is the priority to re-sign. Also, do think Stretcher is gone and we will probably bring in one more D man to solidify the top 6.
Taffoli and Markstrom is a toss up for who comes back, my gut is Taffoli will come back but that's just a feeling for much of the same reason you mentioned above.
Taffoli and Markstrom is a toss up for who comes back, my gut is Taffoli will come back but that's just a feeling for much of the same reason you mentioned above.
Re: Goalies moving forward.
25 minute mark, JB talks about Thatcher Demko as our goalie of the future in a year or two...Benning on @TSN1040
: While he wants to get Markstrom resigned, adds: “Jacob has earned that right if he needs to test the market if he’s not happy with where we end up...”
Re Demko: He’s capable of being a number one goalie. Refers to him as “our goalie of the future” #Canucks
11:39 AM · Sep 10, 2020
https://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1040 ... -1.1522248
I doubt anything has changed. Not yet. For me, any renewal of a Jacob Markstrom contract will have to mesh with the entire team plan.
I get the impression the UFA players will be waiting for quite some time. Unfortunately, there's no rush.
JB is very strong on the two goalie system for the Canucks, ( pretty sure he means a more equal split then what we saw this past year ).
Really, it's all up to Jacob Markstrom. I don't think the door is by any means closed.
My guess would be he eventually decides to keep playing here even if it means a short contract for the time being. I'm also guessing he
may well be a capable net minder well into his mid 30s, even 37-38. Seems to have really come a long ways in his conditioning planning
and game preparedness compared to the Markstrom that fought it out with Anders Nilsson here a few years back.
My Gaud; remember their glove hands?
"evolution"
- Madcombinepilot
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Re: Goalies moving forward.
So what’s this? How many times are you going to post the same link?
Gomer just gonna keep on Gomering
Gomer just gonna keep on Gomering
The 'Chain of Command' is the chain I am going to beat you with until you understand I am in charge.
Re: Goalies moving forward.
Why don't you try and post something pertinent to the team all on your own? Including your source if required for validity.Madcombinepilot wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:48 pm So what’s this? How many times are you going to post the same link?
"evolution"
Re: Goalies moving forward.
Considering 80% of what you post doesn't qualify in that category, and 50% of that is unfounded rumor.....I'd say you're hardly one to talk there Sir Linksalot.Micky wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:13 pmWhy don't you try and post something pertinent to the team all on your own? Including your source if required for validity.Madcombinepilot wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:48 pm So what’s this? How many times are you going to post the same link?
Re: Goalies moving forward.
Says you shaggy. The rabbit was cool though.Mëds wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:16 pmConsidering 80% of what you post doesn't qualify in that category, and 50% of that is unfounded rumor.....I'd say you're hardly one to talk there Sir Linksalot.Micky wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:13 pmWhy don't you try and post something pertinent to the team all on your own? Including your source if required for validity.Madcombinepilot wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:48 pm So what’s this? How many times are you going to post the same link?
"evolution"
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Re: Goalies moving forward.
Is this the part where I am supposed to quote myself with links to my posts??Micky wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:13 pmWhy don't you try and post something pertinent to the team all on your own? Including your source if required for validity.Madcombinepilot wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:48 pm So what’s this? How many times are you going to post the same link?
Or should I just post a bunch of links to random shit from long ago?
Perhaps I could make up a previous conversation from someone who I was on the board with here for 13 weeks.. that would be EPIC!
...
Oh Gomer, how do you make these choices? Is it like choosing the crayons your going to eat each day??
The 'Chain of Command' is the chain I am going to beat you with until you understand I am in charge.
Re: Goalies moving forward.
I wouldn't even bother MCP.Madcombinepilot wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:51 pmIs this the part where I am supposed to quote myself with links to my posts??Micky wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:13 pmWhy don't you try and post something pertinent to the team all on your own? Including your source if required for validity.Madcombinepilot wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:48 pm So what’s this? How many times are you going to post the same link?
Or should I just post a bunch of links to random shit from long ago?
Perhaps I could make up a previous conversation from someone who I was on the board with here for 13 weeks.. that would be EPIC!
...
Oh Gomer, how do you make these choices? Is it like choosing the crayons your going to eat each day??
Gomer is so far gone he eats the crayons because he read (in a link somewhere) that if he does he'll be able to finger paint a rainbow with his own feces the next day.....
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Re: Goalies moving forward.
... this is true.
Sadly, all true.
Sadly, all true.
The 'Chain of Command' is the chain I am going to beat you with until you understand I am in charge.
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Re: Goalies moving forward.
Micky wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:15 am Doubt the Canucks are willing to do 6m for 5 or 6 years. Had nothing gone wrong with world health that would have been his approximate
value I think. Maybe 5.8, maybe even 6.5 if others were locked up quickly.
For me, he's worth around 4.8 for three years. He wont do that.
Seriously Mick, do you have an Off Switch?Micky wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:49 am Really, it's all up to Jacob Markstrom. I don't think the door is by any means closed.
My guess would be he eventually decides to keep playing here even if it means a short contract for the time being. I'm also guessing he
may well be a capable net minder well into his mid 30s, even 37-38. Seems to have really come a long ways in his conditioning planning
"Markstrom would have got up to $6.5M x 6 years if not for COVID but now he's worth $4.8 x 3... But he won't do that."
"I think Markstrom will sign a $4M-$4.5M-per retirement style contract.2 people asked what I mean by that, but I'm not answering."
"I think Markstrom will be a capable goalie for 7 more years and I also think he's only worth $4.8 x 3 years."
"Yeahno, I'm not here to have conversations... or even make sense... I just like to hear myself talk blah blah blah blah fucking blah."
For God's sake man. Shut. The fuck. Up.
____
Try to focus on someday.
Try to focus on someday.
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Re: Goalies moving forward.
Mick Marky will be cashing in wherever he goes. Hes a Vezina calibre goalie about to set him, his children and his childrens children up for life.
Hes easily going to be landing over 6.5 with another team, likely 6 at least if Van decides to step up.
I doubt Van steps up.
If you need air...call it in