R2 - Canucks vs vegas - 2020 Playoffs

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Hockey Widow
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Re: R2 - Canucks vs vegas - 2020 Playoffs

Post by Hockey Widow »

Vegas was the better team. Yes we had a cinderella run, backstopped by two incredible performances by two incredible goalies. But Vegas was still the better team. They out shot us, out hit us, outscored us in the end. We owned the face off dot but that was it. We had stretches of time were we performed extremely well but we could not sustained that for long stretches or games. Vegas could. This was a great run by our team. Better than expected from most quarters. But in the end we had nothing left. When you get to game 7 and all you can muster is 13 shots I think it is pretty self explanatory that we ran out of gas. Yet still, Demko kept us in it. All we needed was 1 goal at the right time and maybe we would have pulled off the miracle. But it was not to be. Did Vegas have more rest leading up to our series? Yes. But that is one of the perks of finishing as high as they did in the standings.

Would that extra day have helped us? Yes it may have helped a tremendous amount but in the end we got the goaltending we needed in game 7 and that should have been enough for us to push through. If Demko got bombed for 5 goals I would agree with you but he didn't. With goaltending like that if the team had been able to push just an extra 10% well we might have had a different outcome.

Simply put, Vegas was the better team.
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Re: R2 - Canucks vs vegas - 2020 Playoffs

Post by Meds »

Hockey Widow wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:53 pm Vegas was the better team. Yes we had a cinderella run, backstopped by two incredible performances by two incredible goalies. But Vegas was still the better team. They out shot us, out hit us, outscored us in the end. We owned the face off dot but that was it. We had stretches of time were we performed extremely well but we could not sustained that for long stretches or games. Vegas could. This was a great run by our team. Better than expected from most quarters. But in the end we had nothing left. When you get to game 7 and all you can muster is 13 shots I think it is pretty self explanatory that we ran out of gas. Yet still, Demko kept us in it. All we needed was 1 goal at the right time and maybe we would have pulled off the miracle. But it was not to be. Did Vegas have more rest leading up to our series? Yes. But that is one of the perks of finishing as high as they did in the standings.

Would that extra day have helped us? Yes it may have helped a tremendous amount but in the end we got the goaltending we needed in game 7 and that should have been enough for us to push through. If Demko got bombed for 5 goals I would agree with you but he didn't. With goaltending like that if the team had been able to push just an extra 10% well we might have had a different outcome.

Simply put, Vegas was the better team.
I don't know that we were as gassed as you're suggesting. Maybe by the 3rd period of game 7 we saw the wear and tear and grind slowing our legs.....

The ONLY way to beat a team like Vegas, who attack in numbers and come at you with a very strong systematic, predatory, forecheck, is with a full team system where players know exactly where the support will be and can move the puck quickly past the oncoming double-team. It's something that Vegas also has. You cannot beat it with a system that requires the puck retriever to first corral the puck and then look and see. You also need guys who can make that quick chip pass quickly and can read where to be to receive the first pass that goes around the boards. Too often the first pass wasn't strong enough and the forward on the wall had to wait for it, or it was too hot and bounced around. The system that Vancouver played simply was not good enough to counter the type of puck pursuit that Vegas brings to each game.

I do agree that they were the better team, but I think it was a combination of system and coaching, as well as too many of our guys just can't pass the puck very well.

Fatigue had less to do with it.

Still a helluva series. Proud of the team, they played their hearts out.
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Re: R2 - Canucks vs vegas - 2020 Playoffs

Post by Cherry Picker »

I like Green as a coach, but one criticism of his moves I have is he did not use his depth, and did not have a feel for what his bench could do. He only used Demko because Marky got hurt. He choose not to rest Marky In game four in back-to-backs. We now know what Demko could have done. Green did not have a feel for Demko’s potential. If Marky had gotten rest in game four, he may have been healthy for the rest of the series.

Likewise MacEwen was never subbed in for Sutter or Roussel which may have given their older legs rest and helped them do better in the series.

As well keeping Sutter and Roussel on the third line and keeping Jake on the fourth, instead of putting Motte Gaudette any Virtanen together until they were behind late in game seven, showed his distrust of youth, even though the veterans were doing nothing offensively.

Generally Green has a respect for veteran experience, and distrust in younger players, that may have cost the team this series.
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Re: R2 - Canucks vs vegas - 2020 Playoffs

Post by Strangelove »

Cherry Picker wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:43 pm I like Green as a coach, but one criticism of his moves I have is he did not use his depth, and did not have a feel for what his bench could do. He only used Demko because Marky got hurt. He choose not to rest Marky In game four in back-to-backs. We now know what Demko could have done. Green did not have a feel for Demko’s potential. If Marky had gotten rest in game four, he may have been healthy for the rest of the series.

Likewise MacEwen was never subbed in for Sutter or Roussel which may have given their older legs rest and helped them do better in the series.

As well keeping Sutter and Roussel on the third line and keeping Jake on the fourth, instead of putting Motte Gaudette any Virtanen together until they were behind late in game seven, showed his distrust of youth, even though the veterans were doing nothing offensively.

Generally Green has a respect for veteran experience, and distrust in younger players, that may have cost the team this series.
I generally agree with this and Meds' point about a lacking puck-support system.

And assholes.

We need more assholes. :drink:
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Re: R2 - Canucks vs vegas - 2020 Playoffs

Post by Chef Boi RD »

The Canucks puck pursuit was awful to be honest. To many sloth like movers on the team when it comes to play reaction and bearing down on pucks. Vegas pretty much won every puck battle. Sutter, Beagle and Pearson are god awful in this department. Roussel works hard at skating but isn’t the smartest at puck pursuit. Jake Virtanen is utterly clueless at puck pursuit.

Motte, Miller, Pettersson and Boeser were our teams best and most consistent forwards at puck pursuit. Toffoli and Horvat can at times be quite lame at fighting for loose pucks

Canucks need to definitely pick it up in this department. Podkolzin, Hoglander and Lockwood all seem to get praised for their puck pursuit style games.
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Re: R2 - Canucks vs vegas - 2020 Playoffs

Post by Doyle Hargraves »

Chef Boi RD wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:10 pm The Canucks puck pursuit was awful to be honest. To many sloth like movers on the team when it comes to play reaction and bearing down on pucks. Vegas pretty much won every puck battle. Sutter, Beagle and Pearson are god awful in this department. Roussel works hard at skating but isn’t the smartest at puck pursuit. Jake Virtanen is utterly clueless at puck pursuit.

Motte, Miller, Pettersson and Boeser were our teams best and most consistent forwards at puck pursuit. Toffoli and Horvat can at times be quite lame at fighting for loose pucks

Canucks need to definitely pick it up in this department. Podkolzin, Hoglander and Lockwood all seem to get praised for their puck pursuit style games.
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Chef Boi RD
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Re: R2 - Canucks vs vegas - 2020 Playoffs

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Doyle Hargraves wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:08 pm
Chef Boi RD wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:10 pm The Canucks puck pursuit was awful to be honest. To many sloth like movers on the team when it comes to play reaction and bearing down on pucks. Vegas pretty much won every puck battle. Sutter, Beagle and Pearson are god awful in this department. Roussel works hard at skating but isn’t the smartest at puck pursuit. Jake Virtanen is utterly clueless at puck pursuit.

Motte, Miller, Pettersson and Boeser were our teams best and most consistent forwards at puck pursuit. Toffoli and Horvat can at times be quite lame at fighting for loose pucks

Canucks need to definitely pick it up in this department. Podkolzin, Hoglander and Lockwood all seem to get praised for their puck pursuit style games.
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Re: R2 - Canucks vs vegas - 2020 Playoffs

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We can assume the serving platter sized bald spot will be enjoying another growth spurt again
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Re: R2 - Canucks vs vegas - 2020 Playoffs

Post by Strangelove »

He ain't gonna make it.
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Re: R2 - Canucks vs vegas - 2020 Playoffs

Post by SKYO »

I think having a more well-rounded defense would have helped tremendously vs Vegas, they got a lot of shots on net & we only won by either scoring a lot, or when Demko stepped in & played like an all-star.

Burke said the Canucks top need is to find a top 4 dman to help.

So lets take a gander at the top 6 defenses from the past Cup winners:

2019: Blues D
Pietrangelo, Parayko,
Gunnarsson, Edmundson,
Dunn, Jbo, Bortuzzo

2018: Caps D
Carlson, Chorney,
Djoos, Kempny,
Niskanen, Orlov, Orpik

2017: Pens D
Letang(INJ), Schultz (took lead),
Maatta, Dumoulin,
Cole, Daley, Hainsey.

2016: Pens D
Letang (lead), Cole,
Maatta, Daley,
Dumoulin, Lovejoy, Schultz-wasn't used much that playoffs.

2015: Blackhawks D
Keith (lead), Seabrook (dominate),
Hjalmarsson, Oduya,
Timonen, then split duties with Cumiskey/Rozsival/Rundblad.

2014: Kings D
Doughty (lead), Martinez,
Muzzin, Voynov,
Greene, Mitchell. split duties Regehr/J.Schultz.

Why I wouldn't mind Tyson Barrie, we could build our defense similar to the Penguins (two QB's and two-way dmen), since we won't have a Pietrangelo, Carlson, Keith or Doughty.
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Re: R2 - Canucks vs vegas - 2020 Playoffs

Post by Micky »

Barrie is too old. Is a UFA. Iffy plus/minus on two teams now. Doesn't play a big man's game particularly. Mostly all lazy 2 minute holding and
hooking penalties and if all that's not enough?


Looks way too much like Kyle Wellwood

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Re: R2 - Canucks vs vegas - 2020 Playoffs

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Micky wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:38 pm Barrie is too old. Is a UFA. Iffy plus/minus on two teams now.
Doesn't play a big man's game particularly.
Mostly all lazy 2 minute holding and hooking penalties and if all that's not enough?

We can build a 1994 style NYR defense:

Leetch - Beukeboom (QB - big burly dman)
Lowe - Zubov (defensive dman - QB)
Wells - Karpovtsev
Lidster

1992/93"Kevin Lowe the 33 year old defenseman was brought in to teach a young defense that featured Brian Leetch, Jeff Beukeboom, and Sergei Zubov how to win."

Hughes - Myers (QB - big burly dman)
Edler - Barrie (vet two-way dman - QB)
Juolevi - Tryamkin
Benn


The recently turned 29 yrs Barrie is basically is a much more proven and effective scorer vs a Stecher, Tyson is lethal on the attack & adds another right shot weapon for Petey and em to use. The Sedins would agree in this regard.

Colorado had righty Makar so they could let Barrie go and Toronto had too many weak dmen, wasn't a good fit there especially with Babcock, after he left Barrie had a really strong year. And we wouldn't be paying him to be "the man", but just another weapon to add to the arsenal & make our powerplays, 5v5 that much more deadly.

1994 Canucks and 2011 Canucks defense were at their best when they had two high scoring dmen.
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Re: R2 - Canucks vs vegas - 2020 Playoffs

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Except Tryamkin cant come back next season unless it is very late in our season and the NHL extends the timeline to allow players in Europe to come over when their season is done. Tanev was very durable this year. I think playing with Hughes has helped his game. He has a partner that can protect him by clearing the fucking puck.
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Re: R2 - Canucks vs vegas - 2020 Playoffs

Post by Todd Bersnoozi »

Micky wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:16 am I will always be bitter, losing this round. It was ours! We were destined to carry into the third round. (which was really like a fourth).
I was disappointed in getting bumped out too, but I'm over it. To me, beating the Wild was great, everything else after that was gravy (taking down the Champs Blues and taking Vegas to 7). I was just glad they came back to finish off the season after the whole COVID thing, as I really like the way our team is built. I really like that we're strong down the middle (centre ice) and goaltending was a pleasant surprise turning out to be much better than expected. If we can improve our defense and forwards a bit with some skill & muscle, it'll be great.

We gotta be excited with this team though, the future is blazing bright. Petey & Hughes look like the really deal. They were our best players, but this was only Petey's 2nd year and Huggy was just a rookie. They're only going to get better. This playoff experience will be invaluable for us (especially our young stars) going forward. They know they can compete and win against some of the best teams out there now. I think this Nuck's team will easily go down as the best in our franchise's history, better than the 94 and 2011 teams by a country mile.
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