R1 - Canucks vs blues - 2020 playoffs

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Madcombinepilot
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Re: R1 - Canucks vs blues - 2020 playoffs

Post by Madcombinepilot »

Doyle Hargraves wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:25 am
Madcombinepilot wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:04 pm
Doyle Hargraves wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:57 pm The point is, that the bottom 3 guys on the D need sheltering. Maybe yank Virtanen and dress seven D. Even with Myers in the lineup it’s a razor thin D core. Myers, Tanev and Edler are all on the decline and are all passable #4 guys. So you have a #1 who’s still a kid, three old brittle #4 guys and three scrubs that can play bottom pairing minutes.
not sure if I would rate Myers, Tanev and Edler as #4 defencemen.. they are 2-3 guys for sure, and declining, also sure, but to rate them as #4 is a bit harsh.

More accurately is to say that as a game wears on, with the Blues dominating the offensive zone time, they wear down and the entire team looks bad.

Better defencemen is not the answer for that problem. We simply need to play in the offensive zone more.
I don’t see them as 2/3 guys on a good team. Its still a razor thin D corps and a razor thin D pipeline. More resources (draft picks) should have been thrown at the defence years ago. They’ve aged out and now we have Hughes and pretty much fuck all else back there for the future.
Well, the 2-3 or 4th guys is opinion based and debatable. I do agree with it’s a thin D pipeline, but a season of development will go a long ways with some of the younger guys, and at least JB has looked at upgrading the D corps (Myers, etc) so it’s not a total surprise.

Remember, this was a ‘Just make the playoffs’ Year (most pundits/ media pukes had us finishing Bottom 5 lotto pick). I think expectations got a little high with our 5 game win streak.
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Re: R1 - Canucks vs blues - 2020 playoffs

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Madcombinepilot wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:00 pm
UWSaint wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:21 pm
Madcombinepilot wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:04 pm Better defencemen is not the answer for that problem. We simply need to play in the offensive zone more.
We aren’t getting into the o-zone because we are not clearing the d-zone with possession or speed. The step back from Myers to Benn is enormous on transition, and so is Stetch going from 15 minutes to 20.
But it’s not all on the defence that we are not clearing the Dzone. Lots of times, forwards are not getting back in position to conduct a break out, they blow the zone a couple seconds early, or (most often) are either out of position to get a pass (skating behind coverage) or they simply miss the pass.. it seems we miss more passes than any other team..

And stetcher moving up from #5 Defenceman to #4 better not be a ‘make or break’ for this team. If any teams number 5 guy can’t handle #4 minutes, your team has other issues. And for a 2.5-3 million dollar guy in the 5 slot, Troy from Richmond is ok. Yes, there are always better options, but he is serviceable. Everyone expects him to play like a 5 million dollar guy, and he gets a lot of flak for it.
It would be nice if Stetcher played like $800,000 Fantenberg but he isn't. The winning goal by O'Reilly was a blown coverage which was strictly on Stetcher himself. Too often he looks lost on coverage in his own zone. Being he is now 26 years old and had 4 seasons NHL experience it's time to stop making excuses for mistakes that rookies make.
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Re: R1 - Canucks vs blues - 2020 playoffs

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mr perfect wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:34 am It would be nice if Stetcher played like $800,000 Fantenberg but he isn't. The winning goal by O'Reilly was a blown coverage which was strictly on Stetcher himself. Too often he looks lost on coverage in his own zone. Being he is now 26 years old and had 4 seasons NHL experience it's time to stop making excuses for mistakes that rookies make.
Yet Edler blew a coverage on one goal as well, we all have players we do not like and we see mistakes they make but not others.

This team will be better off when Edler finally retires IMHO and we use that $6M for someone else. JB does have to address this and maybe letting Tof walk is a better option. Let Stecher go, get rid of Benn and sign a proper 2nd pairing d man.
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Re: R1 - Canucks vs blues - 2020 playoffs

Post by Micky »

The drive of Bo Horvat in these playoffs has been the key. St' Louis has got that figured out. They've been targeting him. Pearson has basically
gone away and LE doesn't offer up any push-back and the line isn't as effective as it was.
Blues have enough depth to do the same thing to the 649 line, and are!
So the key factor is getting a better, grittier effort from the bottom six. Force the Blues to use some of their better players vs the bottom
of our line-up.
The Canucks powerplay wasn't as effective the last game. Part of the reason for that is they were gassed, not enough energy and when that
happens, lower percentage passes start occurring or maybe more accurately, just bad decisions.
Gonna need a more complete team effort to beat the Blues now. Don't see how Jake Virtanen can be trusted any longer to be part of it.
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Re: R1 - Canucks vs blues - 2020 playoffs

Post by mr perfect »

2Fingers wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:38 am
mr perfect wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:34 am It would be nice if Stetcher played like $800,000 Fantenberg but he isn't. The winning goal by O'Reilly was a blown coverage which was strictly on Stetcher himself. Too often he looks lost on coverage in his own zone. Being he is now 26 years old and had 4 seasons NHL experience it's time to stop making excuses for mistakes that rookies make.
Yet Edler blew a coverage on one goal as well, we all have players we do not like and we see mistakes they make but not others.

This team will be better off when Edler finally retires IMHO and we use that $6M for someone else. JB does have to address this and maybe letting Tof walk is a better option. Let Stecher go, get rid of Benn and sign a proper 2nd pairing d man.
The Juice himself, Kevin Bieksa explained quite nicely during intermission that on the dump in Edler had to go back for the puck battle with Perron while Stetcher needed to stay with O'Reilly. Instead Stetcher stands there, then goes to crosscheck Perron in the back and leaves O'Reilly wide open to walk out in front of the next and score on a nice backhanded shot. Edler has had some brain farts this series but nowhere near what Stetcher has had. I was one of Edler's biggest critics through the 2012 playoffs until halfway though Travis Green's first season where Nolan Baumgartner has worked with Edler to really improve his game. Now it wouldn't bother me if the Canucks resign him in 2021 albeit as a third pairing D-man at a much lesser salary.
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Re: R1 - Canucks vs blues - 2020 playoffs

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Sure. But Edler is paid Twice as much as Stetcher.

The point I was making, is that your number 5 guy will ALWAYS make mistakes, that’s why they are a 5 guy. Stetcher is paid like a 4-5 so he is playing like one. It happens. People hammer on Troy because he is short. They forget about his work ethic, drive, hockey smarts (smarts When compared to OTHER #5 Defenceman) and price point. You get what you pay for. And at Stetchers current contract, he is fair market value.

On the cap side of things,
Next season, we re-up Edler on a 1 year (if he wants) for about 3 million. Stetch gets offered about 2. (They don’t sign, they walk) Then our 4, 5, and 6 guys (6-8 guys are 1 or less) are making about 6 to 6.5 million total. Right in line.
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Re: R1 - Canucks vs blues - 2020 playoffs

Post by Chef Boi RD »

There is a tendency to overvalue the lovable likeable Canucks In this market (Linden), Stecher is that. Everyone is pulling for him me included, he’s a good man, but business is business. He’s better suited as your 7th D- man, short term filler guy. It’s not good if he’s moving up the line up, he can’t handle logging big minutes. He should be getting the least amount of minutes on your D core if he’s playing
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Re: R1 - Canucks vs blues - 2020 playoffs

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Micky wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:45 am The drive of Bo Horvat in these playoffs has been the key. St' Louis has got that figured out. They've been targeting him. Pearson has basically
gone away and LE doesn't offer up any push-back and the line isn't as effective as it was.
Blues have enough depth to do the same thing to the 649 line, and are!
So the key factor is getting a better, grittier effort from the bottom six. Force the Blues to use some of their better players vs the bottom
of our line-up.
The Canucks powerplay wasn't as effective the last game. Part of the reason for that is they were gassed, not enough energy and when that
happens, lower percentage passes start occurring or maybe more accurately, just bad decisions.
Gonna need a more complete team effort to beat the Blues now. Don't see how Jake Virtanen can be trusted any longer to be part of it.
Bo has always been a bit of a one trick pony, he plays more like a winger outside of his excellent work on the draw. I’ve always felt that Bo would be better suited playing with a winger who plays like a centre. Podkolzin apparently has been described that way, it might be a fit with those two on the same line
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Re: R1 - Canucks vs blues - 2020 playoffs

Post by Doyle Hargraves »

Chef Boi RD wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:00 am There is a tendency to overvalue the lovable likeable Canucks In this market (Linden), Stecher is that. Everyone is pulling for him me included, he’s a good man, but business is business. He’s better suited as your 7th D- man, short term filler guy. It’s not good if he’s moving up the line up, he can’t handle logging big minutes. He should be getting the least amount of minutes on your D core if he’s playing
There has also been a tendency to overvalue overpaid scrubs like Erik Gudbranson and Luca Sbisa.
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Re: R1 - Canucks vs blues - 2020 playoffs

Post by SKYO »

Guess Green wasn't doing the ol' carrot/stick trick with JV, as that ain't working.

Jake Virtanen held pointless in the playoffs with 11 hits in the playoffs making him 181st ranking in hits.

Canucks leading hitter is Motte with 28.
Beagle - 16
Edler - 15
Miller - 15
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Re: R1 - Canucks vs blues - 2020 playoffs

Post by SKYO »

I love to read about the greatest of all time in Scotty Bowman, I remember what he said about the young Capitals team 12 years ago after missing the playoffs for two years & Ovie's 3rd season.
Scotty Bowman: They did get the third seed. What they have to guard against, especially with so many young players, is to think — consciously or unconsciously — that just making the playoffs is their championship.
Says teams that win Cups stick to one goalie throughout the playoffs, unless:
I’d say that unless he struggles or gets injured, you have to run with one goalie.
In any case even if the Canucks do get knocked out 1st round, at least we made the playoffs! which bodes well for the youngsters who have played remarkable! and we could get knocked out by the OLD veteran 2019 CUP champs, so it's not like we got knocked out by some average team.

But shit CC brothers, what a nice story it would be, the Canucks young guns knocking out the 2019 Cup champs. wow
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Re: R1 - Canucks vs blues - 2020 playoffs

Post by Strangelove »

Micky wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:31 am To Date, playoff stats:
https://assets1.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl ... cks/stats/
Thanks Mick, just because we're hardcore Canuck fans who have been on the internet for decades

... doesn't mean we know how to find stats!
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Re: R1 - Canucks vs blues - 2020 playoffs

Post by Strangelove »

Madcombinepilot wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:10 am On the cap side of things,
Next season, we re-up Edler on a 1 year (if he wants) for about 3 million. Stetch gets offered about 2. (They don’t sign, they walk) Then our 4, 5, and 6 guys (6-8 guys are 1 or less) are making about 6 to 6.5 million total. Right in line.
Edler has one year left at $6M and personally I'm done with Stecher...
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Re: R1 - Canucks vs blues - 2020 playoffs

Post by SKYO »

Strangelove wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:26 pm
Madcombinepilot wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:10 am On the cap side of things,
Next season, we re-up Edler on a 1 year (if he wants) for about 3 million. Stetch gets offered about 2. (They don’t sign, they walk) Then our 4, 5, and 6 guys (6-8 guys are 1 or less) are making about 6 to 6.5 million total. Right in line.
Edler has one year left at $6M and personally I'm done with Stecher...
All in favour of letting Tanev and Stecher go and replace them with Alex Pietrangelo?

8-)
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Re: R1 - Canucks vs blues - 2020 playoffs

Post by Doyle Hargraves »

SKYO wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:54 pm
Strangelove wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:26 pm
Madcombinepilot wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:10 am On the cap side of things,
Next season, we re-up Edler on a 1 year (if he wants) for about 3 million. Stetch gets offered about 2. (They don’t sign, they walk) Then our 4, 5, and 6 guys (6-8 guys are 1 or less) are making about 6 to 6.5 million total. Right in line.
Edler has one year left at $6M and personally I'm done with Stecher...
All in favour of letting Tanev and Stecher go and replace them with Alex Pietrangelo?

8-)
You’re still about 4 million short. Can’t do it.
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