Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 19-20 Sponsored by SKYO

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Doyle Hargraves
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 19-20 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Doyle Hargraves »

lol he drags that line down. Horvat and Pearson are giving lip service. The guy is a disaster. Staal is about as bad as Gudbranson minus the pseudo toughness. Both are still capable of playing 15 min a night in the leaguein a 6/7 role. Louise does not belong in the league.
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 19-20 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Madcombinepilot »

Doyle Hargraves wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:33 am
Tciso wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:18 am What is Loui's real trade cost. Detroit got a 2nd to take on Marc Staal, who's cap is $5.7, and cash is $3.2 (assuming signing bonus has been paid). Loui is only owed $5, and has a cap hit of $12. And, he's still a serviceable bottom 6 guy for a crappy team.

Staal seems to have set the price for Loui at around a 2nd, or maybe even a 3rd. Anything less is a great deal.
Staal only has one year left. Louise has two years. Staal isn’t a completely useless piece of shit. Eriksson is. These situations are not similar.
I guess it’s how you perceive the market. Both are bottom guys with big contracts. Some teams might be looking for “cheap cap space” to get to the cap floor. Louise can play a 4th line role for them. One one hand, the extra contract year is crappy for some teams close to the cap. On teams looking to get to the floor for the next couple years, it’s not a bad thing. Heck, a desperate team might actually give us something back to get to the floor. (Not likely, but possible!)
The buying team will determine the price.
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 19-20 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Meds »

Madcombinepilot wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:02 pm
Doyle Hargraves wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:33 am
Tciso wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:18 am What is Loui's real trade cost. Detroit got a 2nd to take on Marc Staal, who's cap is $5.7, and cash is $3.2 (assuming signing bonus has been paid). Loui is only owed $5, and has a cap hit of $12. And, he's still a serviceable bottom 6 guy for a crappy team.

Staal seems to have set the price for Loui at around a 2nd, or maybe even a 3rd. Anything less is a great deal.
Staal only has one year left. Louise has two years. Staal isn’t a completely useless piece of shit. Eriksson is. These situations are not similar.
I guess it’s how you perceive the market. Both are bottom guys with big contracts. Some teams might be looking for “cheap cap space” to get to the cap floor. Louise can play a 4th line role for them. One one hand, the extra contract year is crappy for some teams close to the cap. On teams looking to get to the floor for the next couple years, it’s not a bad thing. Heck, a desperate team might actually give us something back to get to the floor. (Not likely, but possible!)
The buying team will determine the price.
Well unless your perception of the market is badly skewed then you know that an aging top-4 pairing defenseman, who can now only play 15 minutes a night on the bottom pair, is worth a helluvalot more than an aging winger who is only suitable for few than 10 minutes per game including PK duty.

Roussel, Beagle, and Sutter are all more useful players than Loui Eriksson in a bottom-6 role. We think all of them are over paid, and Loui makes $1.6M more than the closest paycheque in that group.

In the Staal vs Eriksson case, the former will play 15+ minutes a night, and do so responsibly filling his role of eating minutes and keeping the puck to the outside. Likely while partnered with a younger, future top-4, who will benefit from his experience. He won't drag down a line, and he won't be a $6M healthy scratch in big games.

Not sure how much clearer a perspective one can grasp for the market.
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 19-20 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by theman »

Here's a question for you.

If the Canucks were going to buyout his contract, how much savings would they get? I have always heard Loui's contract is buyout proof but just how bad is it?
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 19-20 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Meds »

theman wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:03 pm Here's a question for you.

If the Canucks were going to buyout his contract, how much savings would they get? I have always heard Loui's contract is buyout proof but just how bad is it?
I read this the other day. Pretty sure it was less than $3M of savings, and then the impact over the following 2 years was not worth it.

Edit.

Sorry.

If we buy him out today his cap hit for this year would still be $5.6M, next year it would be $3.6, and then $600K for the following two seasons.

Send him to Utica and I think we save just over $1M.
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 19-20 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Madcombinepilot »

Meds wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:57 pm
Madcombinepilot wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:02 pm
Doyle Hargraves wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:33 am
Tciso wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:18 am What is Loui's real trade cost. Detroit got a 2nd to take on Marc Staal, who's cap is $5.7, and cash is $3.2 (assuming signing bonus has been paid). Loui is only owed $5, and has a cap hit of $12. And, he's still a serviceable bottom 6 guy for a crappy team.

Staal seems to have set the price for Loui at around a 2nd, or maybe even a 3rd. Anything less is a great deal.
Staal only has one year left. Louise has two years. Staal isn’t a completely useless piece of shit. Eriksson is. These situations are not similar.
I guess it’s how you perceive the market. Both are bottom guys with big contracts. Some teams might be looking for “cheap cap space” to get to the cap floor. Louise can play a 4th line role for them. One one hand, the extra contract year is crappy for some teams close to the cap. On teams looking to get to the floor for the next couple years, it’s not a bad thing. Heck, a desperate team might actually give us something back to get to the floor. (Not likely, but possible!)
The buying team will determine the price.
Well unless your perception of the market is badly skewed then you know that an aging top-4 pairing defenseman, who can now only play 15 minutes a night on the bottom pair, is worth a helluvalot more than an aging winger who is only suitable for few than 10 minutes per game including PK duty.

Roussel, Beagle, and Sutter are all more useful players than Loui Eriksson in a bottom-6 role. We think all of them are over paid, and Loui makes $1.6M more than the closest paycheque in that group.

In the Staal vs Eriksson case, the former will play 15+ minutes a night, and do so responsibly filling his role of eating minutes and keeping the puck to the outside. Likely while partnered with a younger, future top-4, who will benefit from his experience. He won't drag down a line, and he won't be a $6M healthy scratch in big games.

Not sure how much clearer a perspective one can grasp for the market.
No, I get that. The point I was making, is that it probably won’t cost us Hoglander, a 1st, and Virtanen (or something to that cost) as a price tag to move him as some suggest. If we find the right partner, and can fill the right need, he can be moved. Or terminated.. or killed (don’t matter to me) for the comparable cost of a second.. or even cheaper.
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 19-20 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by theman »

Posted this earlier, but I think the best we can hope for, other than him being a 'throw in' for a blockbuster trade is:

Loui (50% retained) + 3rd round pick for future considerations (something like a 7th round pick)

We loose a decent asset but get 3 mil in cap savings. That I think might be the best we can hope for.

I would rather send him to Utica and get 1 mil in savings then give up a 1st.
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 19-20 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Meds »

Madcombinepilot wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:11 pm
Meds wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:57 pm
Madcombinepilot wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:02 pm
Doyle Hargraves wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:33 am
Tciso wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:18 am What is Loui's real trade cost. Detroit got a 2nd to take on Marc Staal, who's cap is $5.7, and cash is $3.2 (assuming signing bonus has been paid). Loui is only owed $5, and has a cap hit of $12. And, he's still a serviceable bottom 6 guy for a crappy team.

Staal seems to have set the price for Loui at around a 2nd, or maybe even a 3rd. Anything less is a great deal.
Staal only has one year left. Louise has two years. Staal isn’t a completely useless piece of shit. Eriksson is. These situations are not similar.
I guess it’s how you perceive the market. Both are bottom guys with big contracts. Some teams might be looking for “cheap cap space” to get to the cap floor. Louise can play a 4th line role for them. One one hand, the extra contract year is crappy for some teams close to the cap. On teams looking to get to the floor for the next couple years, it’s not a bad thing. Heck, a desperate team might actually give us something back to get to the floor. (Not likely, but possible!)
The buying team will determine the price.
Well unless your perception of the market is badly skewed then you know that an aging top-4 pairing defenseman, who can now only play 15 minutes a night on the bottom pair, is worth a helluvalot more than an aging winger who is only suitable for few than 10 minutes per game including PK duty.

Roussel, Beagle, and Sutter are all more useful players than Loui Eriksson in a bottom-6 role. We think all of them are over paid, and Loui makes $1.6M more than the closest paycheque in that group.

In the Staal vs Eriksson case, the former will play 15+ minutes a night, and do so responsibly filling his role of eating minutes and keeping the puck to the outside. Likely while partnered with a younger, future top-4, who will benefit from his experience. He won't drag down a line, and he won't be a $6M healthy scratch in big games.

Not sure how much clearer a perspective one can grasp for the market.
No, I get that. The point I was making, is that it probably won’t cost us Hoglander, a 1st, and Virtanen (or something to that cost) as a price tag to move him as some suggest. If we find the right partner, and can fill the right need, he can be moved. Or terminated.. or killed (don’t matter to me) for the comparable cost of a second.. or even cheaper.
Ahhh... Ok. I agree, though it likely could cost us one of Virtanen or Hoglander. A 1st is too high. And certainly not all 3.
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Post by Madcombinepilot »

theman wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:17 pm Posted this earlier, but I think the best we can hope for, other than him being a 'throw in' for a blockbuster trade is:

Loui (50% retained) + 3rd round pick for future considerations (something like a 7th round pick)

We loose a decent asset but get 3 mil in cap savings. That I think might be the best we can hope for.

I would rather send him to Utica and get 1 mil in savings then give up a 1st.
If 6 million dollar cap hit (Marleau) is worth a 1st,
And a 5 million cap hit (Stall) is worth a second,

Then why is a 3 million hit (50% of Loise) that only costs 1 million worth a Third?
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 19-20 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by theman »

Madcombinepilot wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:21 pm
theman wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:17 pm Posted this earlier, but I think the best we can hope for, other than him being a 'throw in' for a blockbuster trade is:

Loui (50% retained) + 3rd round pick for future considerations (something like a 7th round pick)

We loose a decent asset but get 3 mil in cap savings. That I think might be the best we can hope for.

I would rather send him to Utica and get 1 mil in savings then give up a 1st.
If 6 million dollar cap hit (Marleau) is worth a 1st,
And a 5 million cap hit (Stall) is worth a second,

Then why is a 3 million hit (50% of Loise) that only costs 1 million worth a Third?
1. Other teams know they have the Canucks 'by the balls' so they can try to leverage that to get a higher pick from us?
2. Benning has a bad poker face.
3. Loui has two years left on his contract. Stall has one year, how many more years does Marleau have?
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Post by Richardstroker69 »

Doyle Hargraves wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:00 pm lol he drags that line down. Horvat and Pearson are giving lip service. The guy is a disaster. Staal is about as bad as Gudbranson minus the pseudo toughness. Both are still capable of playing 15 min a night in the leaguein a 6/7 role. Louise does not belong in the league.
I dunno man, here’s an article with some of the stats I was talking about

https://thehockeywriters.com/canucks-lo ... black-ace/
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Post by Doyle Hargraves »

And then there was the recent Canucks Army piece that said he was the least engaged and productive player on the Canucks in the post season. Obviously Green had enough. He scratched him 8 straight. The guy is done. Probably my most hated Canuck ever.
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Post by 2Fingers »

theman wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:17 pm Posted this earlier, but I think the best we can hope for, other than him being a 'throw in' for a blockbuster trade is:

Loui (50% retained) + 3rd round pick for future considerations (something like a 7th round pick)

We loose a decent asset but get 3 mil in cap savings. That I think might be the best we can hope for.

I would rather send him to Utica and get 1 mil in savings then give up a 1st.
I liked Sl trade which was Demko + LE and we receive a 2nd back.

If Demko is the starting goalie we all thought then a younger team like Ottawa/Detroit might do this deal knowing that LE will be gone before they need his space and they just picked up one of the most promising young goalies in the market.
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Post by rats19 »

Doyle Hargraves wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:43 pm And then there was the recent Canucks Army piece that said he was the least engaged and productive player on the Canucks in the post season. Obviously Green had enough. He scratched him 8 straight. The guy is done. Probably my most hated Canuck ever.
Personally I can’t stand the look of him..
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Post by Strangelove »

theman wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:25 pm
Madcombinepilot wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:21 pm
theman wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:17 pm Posted this earlier, but I think the best we can hope for, other than him being a 'throw in' for a blockbuster trade is:

Loui (50% retained) + 3rd round pick for future considerations (something like a 7th round pick)

We loose a decent asset but get 3 mil in cap savings. That I think might be the best we can hope for.

I would rather send him to Utica and get 1 mil in savings then give up a 1st.
If 6 million dollar cap hit (Marleau) is worth a 1st,
And a 5 million cap hit (Stall) is worth a second,

Then why is a 3 million hit (50% of Loise) that only costs 1 million worth a Third?
1. Other teams know they have the Canucks 'by the balls' so they can try to leverage that to get a higher pick from us?
2. Benning has a bad poker face.
3. Loui has two years left on his contract. Stall has one year, how many more years does Marleau have?
In the case of Marleau, the Canes agreed to carry a $6M cap hit and pay $4.6M real dollars to a player they had to buy out.

They had the extra cap space anyway, so essentially Carolina bought a 1st round pick for $4.6M.

Not the same as a Eriksson dump, as the receiving team in this case would getting the services of an okay 4th-line penalty-killer.

Is Loui worth the $2.5M-per real bucks he'd be receiving in that role?

No, probably only a half of that, so a sweetener would be added to the deal.

In my mind I have no doubt Jimmy will dump Loui's entire cap hit by attaching a sweetener to him.
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