Offseason grades so far

[Strangelove]

you begged to be a mod

[DonCherry4PM]

I'm sorry to have to tell you this (I know it must be tough for you) but it was "well played" as his response was better than your initial joke.

Sorry, Buddy. Maybe next time? Don't fret though, I'm sure you've still got a lot of good material.

WHOOSH

DOUBLE WIN: Strangelove

I can see from all the self-aggrandizing that you really just need a hug.

Come here big fella.

[Strangelove]

I can see from all the self-aggrandizing that you really just need a hug.

Come here big fella.

Is that a punch bowl ladle in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?

[Nuckertuzzi]

... if you want to go into detail as to why trading away a draft pick today which will be at worst 2 drafts away is a bad idea for the Vancouver Canucks I'm open to a change of opinion...

Take care..

Ok then I will repeat myself.

I don't like the trade because…

A) It is a risky trade and we have a very recent reference point that shows how it can backfire: Ottawa

B) Miller to me is not a player worth taking that big of a risk on.

C) There are other means of acquiring players that don't have to cost as much or at as big of a risk, even if you need to aim lower it's probably a better option weighed against the risk.

D) Why now? We don't know enough about where we're at in the stage of our development as a team to be making such a risky trade. If we are going to use those assets in a trade, why not wait till we've actually taken a step forward and who knows by then can maybe dangle them for a better deal.

E) Stand ground against hamstrung team. If you have to get him, play hardball for a lower price and if Tampa says no simply walk and go to option C. It's not like Miller is a player you can't afford to pass up on.

F) Good draft year. If we miss and retain it, that's fine but implies trade didn't work and didn't assess team well enough (D). Would also leave us exposed the next year..can assume improvement by then but been around game long enough to know growth is not always a straight line (see A, Ottawa prob felt 2nd year was safe after getting Ktachuk..hell I'm sure they didn't expect 1 pick to be lottery, let alone both).


This is how I feel. I will accept if you disagree or contend with any of my points but I'm not changing my mind on it. In fact, if I was offered a chance to rescind it I would. Because ultimately I want the same as you which is the best for this team and if we disagree on what is best, cool...I have no problems with you buddy. As long as you allow me my opinion and don't categorize it as complaining for the sake of complaining.

Lastly, since I can't take back the trade I will be on board with it because I have no choice. I won't dispute that Miller will help the team. Just not comfortable with by how much and at such a cost but will hope for the best.

Take care ...

[asidas]

I think the trade for miller was great. We add a player of 1st round value today, rather then wait 3-4 years for that gamble of a 1st rounder to make any contribution to the team. Virtanen and juolevi were top 5 picks who i would take miller over any day. The pick 2 years from now will not be a top 5 pick.

Miller is the type of player who compliments our core. He is someone we would hope a rookie could become, but he is already there. He is fiesty, versatile, heavy and a playmaker. Great cap hit and in his prime years now. With Canucks selecting podkolzin and Hoglander. Realistically, all our drafting needs are covered. We are good on center for a long time. We landed wingers. We have dmen coming and some vets signed long term. Juolevi will break out this year and college signings will be there for injury help.

The miller trade also let it be known to UFAs that we are looking to max out our ELC contracts and go for it. You dont wait for EP and QH to sign their top dollar contracts to then start being competitive. With miller there, Myers and Benn came on board and figure we will be a contender. With Ferlund now, I think we are a playoff team. I dont think the canucks are finished yet, We have a beautiful city to help attract players. All we lacked was a competitive team. Now with a competitive team, we can load up on ufas and trade out our garbage (which the process has begun) gone are the days the fringe players were all we could attract. Frankly, ufas saw our team as a stop gap and choices were slim. Benning had last dibs and is roasted today daily for his past signings.

If you were EP and QH and had a taste of playoffs. You will realize you cannot be a playoff team for long unless you take a team friendly cap hit. If the team is still in rebuild mode and middle of the pack. I would then care about dollars more then a chance at a championship. Cause and effect. Its all relative. It is was gillis used to leverage players that fucked benning when he took over.

I truly believe we are playoff bound this coming year. So much so i bought season tickets after ferlund signed. Boeser will sign and ericksoon and baertchi will be moved.

on a side note

my buddy is dating tyson barrie's sister. The deal was in place days before the draft. Barrie met with green and even had an 8 year x 8.25 m extension in place. On canada day, they were all in victoria when he got word of his trade to toronto. He told everyone what happened and went for a prolonged walk (wasnt happy at all). They kept saying sakic was asking too much (from canucks), and good on benning to draft the russian. Word is if canucks still have the cap space, he will come here. But obviously go to where he gets paid the most. He was the glue of the avs. Mackinnons best friend. Apparently no team functions happened unless barrie was there. The avs players hate how sakic treated barrie.

[ESQ]

my buddy is dating tyson barrie's sister.

I. Live. For rumours like this.

[Nuckertuzzi]

Entire post

Excellent reply! Still not sold but many compelling, well though out reasons why I should be. Bravo.

I just really hope Miller is as advertised and not a new addition to the list of over-estimated players Benning paid too much for. I hope last year's drop is a blip and not a trend.

One thing I might disagree with is that drafted player may not take as long as a 3-4 year wait when you consider the quality of the upcoming draft, and how our core 4 came into the league and produced fairly quickly. The thought is when they are ready to really come into their own and lead the team to new heights, they'll be at their new expensive contracts and the new guys will provide the support while on ELC's. Perhaps you're right and that wave will come from Podkolzin, Hoglander, etc.. Or they may not be anything, I just want to increase our odds...AND if possible add another blue chip D prospect to the mix then I think we're set for the future.


Oh, and for the record I am not a Benning basher. It just sounds that way for not approving the trade and when I point out the mistakes from the past to support why. If Francesco let me decide if we keep JB around for a while, it's a no-brainer for me, 100% Yes. The Draft trumps all and I want him at the helm just based on that alone.


The Barrie thing warrants a thread of its own. Wow.

[SKYO]

on a side note

my buddy is dating tyson barrie's sister. The deal was in place days before the draft. Barrie met with green and even had an 8 year x 8.25 m extension in place.

On canada day, they were all in victoria when he got word of his trade to toronto. He told everyone what happened and went for a prolonged walk (wasnt happy at all).

They kept saying sakic was asking too much (from canucks), and good on benning to draft the russian. Word is if canucks still have the cap space, he will come here. But obviously go to where he gets paid the most. He was the glue of the avs. Mackinnons best friend. Apparently no team functions happened unless barrie was there. The avs players hate how sakic treated barrie.

Avs probably wanted more from the Canucks due to being in western conference.

idk about having cap space next year, and Jett Woo should be ready to take Tanev's spot for the 2020/21 season.

So lets hope Stecher can step it up a notch for a breakout season, he's ready for it entering his 4th NHL season, and has now earned Green's/Baumer's trust with earning more TOI as the season progressed. 24 points as a rookie, 23 points this past season, I think he can crack 30+ points this upcoming season.

Plus Quinn Hughes boy.....all-star in the making.

[Mickey107]

Resistance is futile.

Best part of the evening..

[Mickey107]

The idea of accumulating picks assumes there is a law of averages.

And increasing odds of success. It's a strategy/philosophy a lot of rebuilding teams employ.

..





Oops

[Nuckertuzzi]

Oops

That's why you need to hold/add picks. You miss on one, you land with another. That's how odds work.

[Mickey107]

B) Miller to me is not a player worth taking that big of a risk on.

Lastly, since I can't take back the trade I will be on board with it because I have no choice. I won't dispute that Miller will help the team. Just not comfortable with by how much and at such a cost but will hope for the best.

All personal credos, analogies, and experience aside, It is a risk. I agree with you on that. His point totals are not overwhelmingly high
and his age is at the "one more kick at the can" point. Well, not quite.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say he's been brought in for his hockey IQ, durability for sure, experience in how to win, (sounds simplistic), but
it is true.
If Virtanen sticks around, he could learn from this guy. A few of our younger guys could.
Does it signify an abrupt change in strategy? I don't think so. Just something we haven't seen for a while.
It is, IMO, time for playoff hockey again. For "Pete's" sake. And others....

[Mickey107]

I’m imagining you saying all this in a Donald Duck voice

Thought I missed it, huh?
http://www.freakingnews.com/Clint-Eastw ... 124892.asp
j/k

[Nuckertuzzi]

His point totals are not overwhelmingly high ...


I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say he's been brought in for his hockey IQ, durability for sure, experience in how to win, (sounds simplistic),

Don't really have an issue with his numbers to be honest. A 20 goal, 50/60 point player is nothing to sneeze at. My concern is is that what we're getting every year for the next 4 years minimum, or the guy who dropped to 13 goals last year and ended up on the 4th line..due to Tampa's depth, I know, I know, but like I said before a good player will find his way into ANY lineup. Also 3 goals in 61 playoff games doesn't exactly scream a leader who can show kids how to win. More a player needing to reestablish his own game and consistency and perhaps gets overwhelmed by pressure? Well he'd better deal with pressure soon because he's not escaping it here I tell ya.

Everybody gets excited about new players because we haven't seen their flaws yet. Gudbranson was going to be that big nasty s.o.b. we haven't had in ages and desperately needed at the time. So many here loved that deal when it happened...at least it didn't cost us a ton.

If Miller fits in perfectly and produces well with Brock and Petey on the top line or Bo and Sven/Tanner on the 2nd, and can do it consistently for years while team improves (Duchene produced like a motherfucker for Sens), I'll have no issues with the trade and will happily admit wrong.

[Cherry Picker]

It’d be nice to have not moved the first, everyone can agree, but top six LW was a black hole on the Canucks and the prospects they were hoping to challenge for that spot were not developing well (Dahlen, Goldobin, Gadjovich). I mentioned earlier this year that the top line would ideally get someone, like a Blake Wheeler, with size and skill to play with Pettersson and Boeser. Miller has the size and skill to potentially be that kind of player. I don’t think he’ll get as many points as Wheeler, but if he plays all year with those two who knows? Another GM isn’t going to give a fairly young top six winger with a pretty decent contract away for much less than a first. So the question is would you rather move Horvat to get a player like him? Do you want to pass on the opportunity to compete, which basically means not adequately filling one of the team’s biggest needs when the opportunity presents itself. Do you want to put another place holder, someone susceptible to concussions, or an undeveloped prospect in the top six? Personally I’m fine with the move. It might not work out, but you have to take some chances to fill your team’s needs. I don’t want to follow the Edmonton model where they don’t or can’t bring in anyone that fills their needs and are constantly getting placeholders like Granlund or Gagner and then back in the lottery. Yes, the Canucks could have kept Granlund and Eriksson in the top six and saved the first round pick, but nobody would say the Canucks are improving or will be challenging for the playoffs this season if they had done that. So, basically you’re throwing the season away and tanking for the draft by not doing what it takes to build a proper line-up. Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat, and Hughes have the potential to be an excellent core in the NHL. They need a team built around them. Trading Miller for a first round likely lottery protected draft pick helps with that tremendously. The games are played on the ice, bad things might happen to ruin the season. As Canuck fans, we all know this. But at the very least the Canucks line-up looks quite competitive going into the season. Maybe bad things will ruin a couple other team’s seasons. Maybe the Canucks stay relatively healthy and find some chemistry. Good things could happen, too. By icing a competitive line-up at the start of the season, they’re giving themselves a chance, which is more than they had prior to signing Miller.