Canucks News n Notes 2019-2020

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Re: Canucks News n Notes 2019-2020

Post by Tciso »

Topper wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:16 am
BingoTough wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:57 am
micky107 wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:04 am
What "Peeps" really want is a certain defensive pairing, isn't it. Come-on, you know where I'm going with this.

OSCAR/MEYERS>>>>only one letter. since when does anyone give a flying encounter about spelling around here?

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That might be your single best insight on this here forum. Kudos :drink: :drink:
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Re: Canucks News n Notes 2019-2020

Post by Mickey107 »

.
SPORTS
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Aug 28 2019, 5:38 pm
Highlights from Nikolay Goldobin's revealing Russian-language interview

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canucks ... -interview
Goldobin admitted that his confidence took a dip last season after losing the trust of the coach.

When asked if he’s allowed to take risks, Goldobin said “A little bit. Less than Pettersson.”

“I wanted more, then it would be easier for me to open up completely. I am clamped and afraid to make a mistake, knowing what they can plant for an unsuccessful action, and lose the rhythm on ice.
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Re: Canucks News n Notes 2019-2020

Post by SKYO »

No excuses Goldy, score and you're in, he's gotta step up and get past the fringe/potential stage.
Can the Canucks just win a Cup within the next 5 years.
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Re: Canucks News n Notes 2019-2020

Post by Cherry Picker »

SKYO wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:41 am No excuses Goldy, score and you're in, he's gotta step up and get past the fringe/potential stage.
In all honesty, the best thing I heard from Benning this summer in regards to Goldobin is that Goldobin lost weight and is skating faster. I don’t find him especially fast for a small, non-physical player. Perhaps if he were faster he could make a go of it. I don’t see him as an NHL player, and I don’t see him cracking the Canucks roster this season, but if he got faster and showed some defensive awareness he might make a go of it as a support player/13th forward. If he is the same player as last season, I’d sooner keep Schaller or Eriksson on the roster for their defensive play, and I really don’t expect to see either of them on the team.
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Re: Canucks News n Notes 2019-2020

Post by Cornuck »

I'm just glad the roster is getting to a point where we don't have to fill spots with "potential" and can actually make some decisions based on who can actually play now.

I'd love to see Goldy prove me wrong, but I'm not betting on him to be a long term solution here (or anywhere).
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Re: Canucks News n Notes 2019-2020

Post by theman »

Wake me up when Boeser is signed, we can’t afford him to be a holdout this upcoming season.
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Re: Canucks News n Notes 2019-2020

Post by Mickey107 »

theman wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:16 am Wake me up when Boeser is signed, we can’t afford him to be a holdout this upcoming season.
10/4 on that one, good buddy!

In re; Goldy- just say>> Hey! I gotta be better, work harder! It's on me.
That's always the smart line. :sly:
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Re: Canucks News n Notes 2019-2020

Post by 2Fingers »

Cherry Picker wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:30 am
SKYO wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:41 am No excuses Goldy, score and you're in, he's gotta step up and get past the fringe/potential stage.
In all honesty, the best thing I heard from Benning this summer in regards to Goldobin is that Goldobin lost weight and is skating faster. I don’t find him especially fast for a small, non-physical player. Perhaps if he were faster he could make a go of it. I don’t see him as an NHL player, and I don’t see him cracking the Canucks roster this season, but if he got faster and showed some defensive awareness he might make a go of it as a support player/13th forward. If he is the same player as last season, I’d sooner keep Schaller or Eriksson on the roster for their defensive play, and I really don’t expect to see either of them on the team.
But he is correct, the issue I have with any coach/GM combo is understanding where you team is, i.e. rebuilding, challenging or tanking. 2 years ago the Canucks were rebuilding and Green would bench any rookie for making a mistake and play veterans over the younger guy. He was full of veteranitis which is understandable as he is fired if the team is not successful so it becomes win not attitude instead of developing.

Not saying players should not be held accountable but quit benching a rookie because he made a mistake in his own end. Work with them and explain what happened. Do not destroy their confidence.
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Re: Canucks News n Notes 2019-2020

Post by Madcombinepilot »

Reefer2 wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:19 am
Cherry Picker wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:30 am
SKYO wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:41 am No excuses Goldy, score and you're in, he's gotta step up and get past the fringe/potential stage.
In all honesty, the best thing I heard from Benning this summer in regards to Goldobin is that Goldobin lost weight and is skating faster. I don’t find him especially fast for a small, non-physical player. Perhaps if he were faster he could make a go of it. I don’t see him as an NHL player, and I don’t see him cracking the Canucks roster this season, but if he got faster and showed some defensive awareness he might make a go of it as a support player/13th forward. If he is the same player as last season, I’d sooner keep Schaller or Eriksson on the roster for their defensive play, and I really don’t expect to see either of them on the team.
But he is correct, the issue I have with any coach/GM combo is understanding where you team is, i.e. rebuilding, challenging or tanking. 2 years ago the Canucks were rebuilding and Green would bench any rookie for making a mistake and play veterans over the younger guy. He was full of veteranitis which is understandable as he is fired if the team is not successful so it becomes win not attitude instead of developing.

Not saying players should not be held accountable but quit benching a rookie because he made a mistake in his own end. Work with them and explain what happened. Do not destroy their confidence.
"Playing veterans over rookies" is a statement that is slung without full disclosure. You can only have so much youth (youth is youth, not nessisarily a rookie, but still an immature player) on a team or it implodes by developing the wrong culture (see Edmonton) 2 years ago, we needed some fillers like Grandlund on the team because we were full of 'youth'. When Goldobin (or whomever) got benched, another rookie was subbed in. Just because some people's favourite rookie was benched is not a reason to say 'replaced by veteran'. Some of those games we would have 4-5 rookies and 3-4 sophomores.. that's 1/2 the team.
Youth was being served.

Benching a young player (if handled correctly) does not destroy their confidence either. It is can can be a learning experience. Most young players benefit from watching as well as practicing.

Now, Goldobin was benched because he couldn't learn the lessons being taught, and not only did he keep making the same mistakes, he had a decided lack of effort when it came to corrections. Other young guys, showed the effort.

It's not a mishandling of a rookie, it's the rookie not learning.
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Re: Canucks News n Notes 2019-2020

Post by SKYO »

One short year ago 2018, Sept.
Whether it’s chipping the puck past his check to himself before a top-corner snipe or embarrassing one of the best defencemen in the league, Drew Doughty, Goldobin clearly has top-tier talent with the puck.

The issue for Goldobin is that he needs a little more substance to go with that style. Goldobin undoubtedly looks great when he has the puck, but Canucks head coach Travis Green emphasized to him last season that the vast majority of the game is played without the puck on your stick.

“He's good with the puck when he has it," said Green before a game in early March. "He's gotta find ways to be good away from it. I met with Goldy today for 15-20 minutes. ‘How long do you have the puck?’ I asked him. He said 2 minutes. Called our analytics guys, he had it for 29 seconds last game.

Some interpreted that as a slight against Goldobin, that he doesn’t have the puck enough, but that wasn’t the intent. No one player has the puck on their stick for very long during a game. 95% of the game is played without the puck.

That’s the substance that Goldobin needs in order to get into the lineup more regularly and play more minutes. There is a clear top-six opportunity available for Goldobin with the retirement of the Sedins. He could potentially play left wing on the top line with Bo Horvat and Brock Boeser. Alternately, he could end up on the right wing alongside Elias Pettersson, which is where he has skated so far in training camp.

That makes this training camp and preseason crucial for Goldobin and it could be a make or break moment for his time with the Canucks. He needs to prove that he can play away from the puck and provide enough of a two-way game that his coach can trust him in more situations.

Goldobin said he worked on that aspect of his game over the summer.

“I was working on every detail,” he said. “This summer was very long, so I’ve done a lot and improved myself in that area… You’ve just got to work hard, you know. You’ve got to skate harder.”

Goldobin knows that’s what Green will be looking for: winning puck battles, skating harder to loose pucks, and working harder defensively. That’s particularly true if he winds up on the wing with Pettersson, a rookie who may need some two-way support. He’s not a raw rookie anymore and he knows it.

“I feel more responsibility for this season. I’m not young anymore,” he said. “Time to take a job and be a good leader.”

Goldobin will be turning 23 in October and is entering the final year of his entry-level contract. He acknowledged the pressure of a contract year — “I hope I’ll do well,” he said — but he’s trying not to let it distract him: “I’m trying to put it away and just play my game.”

https://www.vancourier.com/pass-it-to-b ... 1.23433812
Goldobin clearly got some scoring/passing/playmaking skills, it's just Goldy has to improve his play without the puck, it's the oldest story in the NHL book - young guns trying to make the NHL pros by improving your play while you don't have the puck.

You see that across the league while it's true some players make a living by just scoring at a decent clip, not insane levels, but decent but they don't win Cups as they don't play well defensively. You have to score ELITE levels if you want slack from the coaches.

Even high scoring players can play better when they learn the art of playing well at both ends of the ice, Scotty Bowman masterfully made Stevie Yzerman do just that, SY was scoring insane levels, but Bowman came and made him into a dominant two-way center and well you know the rest of that story....

How do you get a prolific scorer, someone who had put together six straight 100-point seasons, to buy into being a two-way player if that's what you think the team needs?

In the case of Steve Yzerman, all Scotty Bowman had to do was ask.

"I mentioned to him that his stats would go down, but hopefully the team would do better," Bowman told NHL.com of one of his first conversations with Yzerman when he took over as the Detroit Red Wings coach in 1993. "He was the reason that it did better because he understood what it took and he wanted to be on a winner."

Yzerman's willingness and ability to put the team ahead of his own stats was, according to Detroit GM Ken Holland, one of the table setters for the wave of success the Red Wings have ridden since the mid-1990s.

Detroit's long-time captain -- the longest-serving captain for one team in NHL history (20 years) -- never put up another 100-point season and only once scored over 90, but after Yzerman turned into a two-way threat, Detroit won three Stanley Cup championships in four trips to the Final, and won the Presidents' Trophy five times.

https://www.nhl.com/news/when-yzerman-b ... d/c-504907


Stevie Y came into the league at 160lbs, wasn't great at fitness, but his talent was supreme.

I can see Elias Pettersson doing the same in time, but for now the team needs his scoring above all else until we get two more consistent scoring lines, then I see him learning the art of two-way play, but he already has shown some brilliance back checking at such a young age is astonishing. Happy we have Ferland + Benn now to help protect him, still think we could use a Reeves.
Can the Canucks just win a Cup within the next 5 years.
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Re: Canucks News n Notes 2019-2020

Post by Strangelove »

Madcombinepilot wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:44 am
Reefer2 wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:19 am
Cherry Picker wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:30 am
SKYO wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:41 am No excuses Goldy, score and you're in, he's gotta step up and get past the fringe/potential stage.
In all honesty, the best thing I heard from Benning this summer in regards to Goldobin is that Goldobin lost weight and is skating faster. I don’t find him especially fast for a small, non-physical player. Perhaps if he were faster he could make a go of it. I don’t see him as an NHL player, and I don’t see him cracking the Canucks roster this season, but if he got faster and showed some defensive awareness he might make a go of it as a support player/13th forward. If he is the same player as last season, I’d sooner keep Schaller or Eriksson on the roster for their defensive play, and I really don’t expect to see either of them on the team.
But he is correct, the issue I have with any coach/GM combo is understanding where you team is, i.e. rebuilding, challenging or tanking. 2 years ago the Canucks were rebuilding and Green would bench any rookie for making a mistake and play veterans over the younger guy. He was full of veteranitis which is understandable as he is fired if the team is not successful so it becomes win not attitude instead of developing.

Not saying players should not be held accountable but quit benching a rookie because he made a mistake in his own end. Work with them and explain what happened. Do not destroy their confidence.
"Playing veterans over rookies" is a statement that is slung without full disclosure. You can only have so much youth (youth is youth, not nessisarily a rookie, but still an immature player) on a team or it implodes by developing the wrong culture (see Edmonton) 2 years ago, we needed some fillers like Grandlund on the team because we were full of 'youth'. When Goldobin (or whomever) got benched, another rookie was subbed in. Just because some people's favourite rookie was benched is not a reason to say 'replaced by veteran'. Some of those games we would have 4-5 rookies and 3-4 sophomores.. that's 1/2 the team.
Youth was being served.

Benching a young player (if handled correctly) does not destroy their confidence either. It is can can be a learning experience. Most young players benefit from watching as well as practicing.

Now, Goldobin was benched because he couldn't learn the lessons being taught, and not only did he keep making the same mistakes, he had a decided lack of effort when it came to corrections. Other young guys, showed the effort.

It's not a mishandling of a rookie, it's the rookie not learning.
YUP

Of Canuck forwards that played 27+ games last season, the top 7 in minutes-per-game were all 25 and younger.

Goldie was 6th.

He often refused to backcheck and often made lazy plays... and now he's whining. :evil:
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Re: Canucks News n Notes 2019-2020

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SKYO wrote:
You have to s Benn now to help protect him,
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Re: Canucks News n Notes 2019-2020

Post by 2Fingers »

Madcombinepilot wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:44 am
Reefer2 wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:19 am
Cherry Picker wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:30 am
SKYO wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:41 am No excuses Goldy, score and you're in, he's gotta step up and get past the fringe/potential stage.
In all honesty, the best thing I heard from Benning this summer in regards to Goldobin is that Goldobin lost weight and is skating faster. I don’t find him especially fast for a small, non-physical player. Perhaps if he were faster he could make a go of it. I don’t see him as an NHL player, and I don’t see him cracking the Canucks roster this season, but if he got faster and showed some defensive awareness he might make a go of it as a support player/13th forward. If he is the same player as last season, I’d sooner keep Schaller or Eriksson on the roster for their defensive play, and I really don’t expect to see either of them on the team.
But he is correct, the issue I have with any coach/GM combo is understanding where you team is, i.e. rebuilding, challenging or tanking. 2 years ago the Canucks were rebuilding and Green would bench any rookie for making a mistake and play veterans over the younger guy. He was full of veteranitis which is understandable as he is fired if the team is not successful so it becomes win not attitude instead of developing.

Not saying players should not be held accountable but quit benching a rookie because he made a mistake in his own end. Work with them and explain what happened. Do not destroy their confidence.
"Playing veterans over rookies" is a statement that is slung without full disclosure. You can only have so much youth (youth is youth, not nessisarily a rookie, but still an immature player) on a team or it implodes by developing the wrong culture (see Edmonton) 2 years ago, we needed some fillers like Grandlund on the team because we were full of 'youth'. When Goldobin (or whomever) got benched, another rookie was subbed in. Just because some people's favourite rookie was benched is not a reason to say 'replaced by veteran'. Some of those games we would have 4-5 rookies and 3-4 sophomores.. that's 1/2 the team.
Youth was being served.

Benching a young player (if handled correctly) does not destroy their confidence either. It is can can be a learning experience. Most young players benefit from watching as well as practicing.

Now, Goldobin was benched because he couldn't learn the lessons being taught, and not only did he keep making the same mistakes, he had a decided lack of effort when it came to corrections. Other young guys, showed the effort.

It's not a mishandling of a rookie, it's the rookie not learning.
First - I did not say play more rookies.

Second - I said Green IMHO likes to bench a rookie for making a mistake, for the love of God do not ask me to prove it as there is zero possibility to do this without spending time with stats.

I also would say that 2 seasons ago especially when the Sedin's were still on the team the youth was not given the chance to take on some of the tougher assignments so that can learn.

Lastly - I do not like/dislike Goldobin, I only care that the Coach/GM/owner are all on the same page so the Coach is not fired because he allowed the youth to learn especially in a meaningless season (i.e. making the playoffs).
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Re: Canucks News n Notes 2019-2020

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Reefer2 wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:50 pm
Second - I said Green IMHO likes to bench a rookie for making a mistake,
But sometimes a vet; Louis Eriksson scratched for one game.
Seriously though; benching a player / any player, is sometimes the only way a coach can "really" get a point across.
Used to be called the press box. A place where maybe someone can get a better idea of what was meant.
Watching the action and putting himself in that situation and then realizing just what his coach was asking of him.
After he has had time to watch and evaluate, "then" would be the appropriate time to question the coach if he still was in disagreement.
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Re: Canucks News n Notes 2019-2020

Post by Cherry Picker »

Goldobin wasn’t a rookie last year.
Pettersson was, and Green didn’t bench him.
Green benched Goldobin because he wasn’t helping the team win.
It had nothing to do with rookie status.
If he needs more development, he should be in the AHL waiting for an injury call up, like MacEwen, and clearly take the job of a veteran. If he is fully developed, which I think he is, he just isn’t good enough.
The NHL isn’t a developmental league. When you get the chance, take a job.
Goldobin had tons of chances already. He hasn’t earned anything.
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