2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

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RoyalDude
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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

Post by RoyalDude » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:09 pm

Blob, UDL and Raffles should get their own time slot on 1040 right after the Sekeres and Price show. Call it the Golden Shower Hour
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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

Post by Uncle dans leg » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:28 pm

Would it be a show where we envite guests who are infatuated with jim bennings every move and piss all over them?

Why am i in there anyway? I'm not even down on shit...
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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:36 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:28 pm
Would it be a show where we envite guests who are infatuated with jim bennings every move and piss all over them?

Why am i in there anyway? I'm not even down on shit...
No you just don’t gush about every single move and call it brilliant. For the record I don’t hate the player, just the price. This could easily be a lottery pick. The team is still short two top six forwards and two top four D and has nobody in Utica that can fill in for an extended period when injuries occur. They look poised to sign another Eriksson type contract which scares the bejesus out of me.
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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

Post by Nuckertuzzi » Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:30 am

The drop in play / goal production last year scares me. Reminds me of a year ago when a part of the justification for signing Roussel, Beagle and Schaller was they were all just a year removed from putting up double digits in goals and were expected to "bounce back". Roussel was on track but don't have to mention how it worked out for the other two. Not that I'm comparing Miller to those guys, better not at least those guys didn't cost us non $ assets. Could it be a blip for Miller? What if it's more trend than blip? I know he got bumped down the depths charts due to a deep roster but a good player will find his way into any lineup. For a rebuilding team to give up a 1st and a 3rd you need to know exactly what you're getting in terms of reliability and consistency...not players with the potential for "off years". I personally hate the trade because we are still very much a rebuilding team and to me high draft picks are more valuable right now than an average top six forward, and if the dip is a trend then this is a complete disaster.

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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

Post by RoyalDude » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:24 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:36 pm
Uncle dans leg wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:28 pm
Would it be a show where we envite guests who are infatuated with jim bennings every move and piss all over them?

Why am i in there anyway? I'm not even down on shit...
This could easily be a lottery pick.
It won’t be

But it could be in 2020, your favourite draft year, but I got news for you. It’s lottery protected! Unlike the 1st Calgary gave up for “Stud” Hamonic
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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

Post by rikster » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:36 am

RoyalDude wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:09 pm
Blob, UDL and Raffles should get their own time slot on 1040 right after the Sekeres and Price show. Call it the Golden Shower Hour
Just an opinion, but I think there is one too many 24/7 sports talk stations in Vancouver and most of the hosts are too lazy to learn the entire league and would rather re circulate Canuck talk....

As a result, I prefer listening to XM radio and hosts/guests who cover the entire league to get a more balanced view on transactions...

Sekeres in particular has this habit of almost cross examining guests who don't agree with his point of view hoping that they will cave to his opinion...

Brough interviewing one of the Tampa play by play guys yesterday tried the Sekeres move by asking many different ways to get the guest to say that the 1st was overpayment...

A typical response from the National media on the deal....

http://ckstam.streamon.fm/listen-pl-18103?smc=10

The nightmare scenario???

If the Nucks miss the playoffs in 2 years and are a lottery team, then not only do you have to make a change at the top but you also have to seriously consider replacing the core group of players....

Take care...

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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:41 am

RoyalDude wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:24 am
Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:36 pm
Uncle dans leg wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:28 pm
Would it be a show where we envite guests who are infatuated with jim bennings every move and piss all over them?

Why am i in there anyway? I'm not even down on shit...
This could easily be a lottery pick.
It won’t be

But it could be in 2020, your favourite draft year, but I got news for you. It’s lottery protected! Unlike the 1st Calgary gave up for “Stud” Hamonic
So when you have no point and are getting crushed again bring up what Calgary did or some other team that also made a bad trade to justify the fact Elmer made a bad trade(s).

“Well evwyone else did it”.
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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

Post by UWSaint » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:47 am

Strangelove wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:00 pm
mr perfect wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:57 pm
Can you or anyone else here give me some examples where a perennial rebuilding/non playoff team traded their first rounder for a veteran player not named Gretzky and benefitted long term?
Can you give some examples of a perennial rebuilding/non playoff team trading their first rounder for a veteran player

... and not benefiting long term? :sly:
To Strangelove -- Islanders, Ryan Smyth, 2007. Now, as it turns out, that First Rounder and the other two players that went to Edmonton didn't amount to anything. But the Islanders at the time were a perennial bubble team or worse. And they followed the trade by several more years of futility, missing the playoffs 6 of 7 years before doing to again by trading a first and a second for Vanek after making the playoffs one year and thinking they were on to something. They traded Vanek at the deadline. This time, though, losing the first for Vanek didn't hurt the Islanders, as they've made the playoffs 3 of the past 5 years and have the pieces to make things work. [Curiously, the Islanders' 2015 pick was traded by the Sabres, a regular non-contender, to Ottawa for Robin Lehner. Lehner would go on to struggle in Buffalo only to sign a new deal in 2018 and look all-world for...the Islanders]. The pick was Colin White, who is decent now and I think will be an effective player.

Phil Kessel is probably another classic example. The Leaves gave up two firsts for him (which became Seguin and Hamilton....) and Kessel was only able to get them into the playoffs once. Arguably it set the Leaves development back so far that they were able to snag Nylander, Marner, and Matthews in consecutive drafts.... See, Blob, trading away a first is a jump start on the next rebuild!

And yet Mr. Perfect isn't correct entirely.

When the Kings traded for Dustin Penner, giving Edmonton their first and more, they had been on the outside looking in to the playoffs or like 5 years out of 6. In Penner's two and a half seasons in Los Angeles, the Kings won the Cup and made it to the conference finals. Now Penner himself Hoovered in LA. But that's beside the point. The trade didn't tube LA.

But Mr Perfect, your question implies that moving the first is a disaster and holding on to them isn't. That's simply not true either. There have been plenty of teams not to move a first and find themselves as bubble-and-below teams. Like the Sabres, who while trading a first for Lehner, have had a first every season since 2008 (they've had 16 firsts in the 12 drafts including 2008). Florida didn't make the playoffs in the 00's -- did they ever deal a first. How about the Coyotes. It seems that since that original Jets core dissipated and they took on the red and white color scheme, they've been anywhere from doormat to bubble (they've made the playoffs 3 of the past 16 seasons -- all three appearances were in consecutive seasons). In the 11 drafts between 2006 and 2016 (players now between 21 and 31), the Coyotes had 17 first round picks. They've missed a ton, of course, but every team does. One might argue they've been too antsy with development (trading recent first rounders Perlini, Strome, and Domi as examples), but thi only serves to show that having picks is only one part of the overall equation.

Playing counterfactuals isn't exactly fair, but c'mon, to evaluate whether teams can have success trading a first rounder during a rebuild then you have to evaluate the opportunity costs of not doing so. You have to ask what rebuilders stayed in a rebuild/bubble cycle because they refused to add the supplemental piece that would make them a solid playoff team. So lets look at the disaster that is the Edmonton Oilers. Would the Oilers, for example, have been better off dealing their #1 overall in 2012 or their first rounder in 2013 for some defense or goaltending? Might they have said, hey, RNH, Taylor Hall, Jordan Eberle, Sam Gagner (remember, he was pretty good once), that's a really good crop of kids to build around. Maybe we could use some help. Do we really need Yakopov? Darnell Nurse? Remember, this is a time period where Cory Schneider and Bobby Lu were available. When Bobrovsky was snagged by Columbus and Bishop by Tampa. When Brent Burns went to San Jose. Edmonton could have (and should have) pulled the trigger when the kids were making an impact but were forward heavy.

In an ideal world, you would rotate from one core to the next, spending on homegrown-would-otherwise-be-UFAs or RFAs on bridges or deals cutting into FA, maybe a UFA and getting contributions from one or two on ELCs, and rounding out the team with serviceable players. Those ELCs become the next group, and recycle. But when you don't have enough of contributing vets but do have the ELCs, you have either wait until those ELCs become the next group or you can supplement that next group now. JB is doing the latter -- probably out of a desire for self-preservation, but it isn't objectively a terrible idea.
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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

Post by Uncle dans leg » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:55 am

The one intangible we have going for us is that Pettersson is more than your average emerging prospect. Hes a franchise type difference maker. Quinn Hughes has some of that same level of elite talent.
Benning is banking on this and it appears is going all in now while the kids are cheap.

I can dig it if he makes the right additions. It all hinges on that fuckin defense though. We need 2 pieces who can move the puck added to the lineup....one of which needs to be a barrie or letang calibre player
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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

Post by Richardstroker69 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:23 am

rikster wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:36 am
RoyalDude wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:09 pm
Blob, UDL and Raffles should get their own time slot on 1040 right after the Sekeres and Price show. Call it the Golden Shower Hour
Just an opinion, but I think there is one too many 24/7 sports talk stations in Vancouver and most of the hosts are too lazy to learn the entire league and would rather re circulate Canuck talk....

As a result, I prefer listening to XM radio and hosts/guests who cover the entire league to get a more balanced view on transactions...

Sekeres in particular has this habit of almost cross examining guests who don't agree with his point of view hoping that they will cave to his opinion...

Brough interviewing one of the Tampa play by play guys yesterday tried the Sekeres move by asking many different ways to get the guest to say that the 1st was overpayment...

A typical response from the National media on the deal....

http://ckstam.streamon.fm/listen-pl-18103?smc=10

The nightmare scenario???

If the Nucks miss the playoffs in 2 years and are a lottery team, then not only do you have to make a change at the top but you also have to seriously consider replacing the core group of players....

Take care...
Rik I listened to that clip it was a fucking joke, amateur hour at its finest.

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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

Post by Nuckertuzzi » Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:15 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:55 am
The one intangible we have going for us is that Pettersson is more than your average emerging prospect. Hes a franchise type difference maker. Quinn Hughes has some of that same level of elite talent.
When you bring up those names, especially Pettersson, it's a good reminder of the adage the best trade you make is the one you don't. We offered up that No. 5 for Subban. Can you imagine the outlook now if that trade had been made.

The Miller trade improves our short term chances at making the playoffs. That's fine, but I just don't care to be a team that at best perpetually spins its wheels hovering near the playoffs with no hope of being a contender. I want a team that is a serious contender year after year. This team still needs a few more big pieces, not just complimentary parts, to get to that point and we may have blown an opportunity.

Also, there seems to be a consensus with this trade the tank is dead. Really? If anything, due to the lottery protection, I think the tank might be stronger than ever, especially for this year. If the next draft is as strong as people say I'll be cheering hard to ensure we get in on it. THEN...the tank will most certainly be dead the following year.

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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

Post by Diehard1 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:24 pm

Cherry Picker wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:23 pm
All you people who hate the Miller trade only get to bitch about Benning BECAUSE the GM is Benning.

The ten top picks before Benning became GM were Horvat, Gaunce, Jensen, McNally, Schroeder, Hodgson, White, Grabner, Bourdon, and Schneider - Whoopdeefriggindo!

Some people act like first round picks are guaranteed hall of framers. Take a friggin pill. Sell your house and go buy a truck load of lottery tickets. There is no way you can lose!

Bunch of friggin morons.
So because Gillis was one of the worst drafters in history we should give away our 1st rounders now? Makes a lot of sense. Not to mention aside from Horvat (great pick), Hodgson (good pick until he developed a disease forcing him to retire), and Bourdon (who knows what he would have become) all of those are mid/late 1st rounders and likely not applicable to this team - you even included a 4th rounder like McNally for good measure which is just odd.

How about Jake, McCann, Brock, Olli, Petey, Quinn and Podz? I think the reason people don't like this trade is because Benning is a good drafter and we want him to use MORE picks, not trade them. I'm not sure how you spin that to what you wrote.

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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:38 pm

rikster wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:36 am
RoyalDude wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:09 pm
Blob, UDL and Raffles should get their own time slot on 1040 right after the Sekeres and Price show. Call it the Golden Shower Hour
Just an opinion, but I think there is one too many 24/7 sports talk stations in Vancouver and most of the hosts are too lazy to learn the entire league and would rather re circulate Canuck talk....

As a result, I prefer listening to XM radio and hosts/guests who cover the entire league to get a more balanced view on transactions...

Sekeres in particular has this habit of almost cross examining guests who don't agree with his point of view hoping that they will cave to his opinion...

Brough interviewing one of the Tampa play by play guys yesterday tried the Sekeres move by asking many different ways to get the guest to say that the 1st was overpayment...

A typical response from the National media on the deal....

http://ckstam.streamon.fm/listen-pl-18103?smc=10

The nightmare scenario???

If the Nucks miss the playoffs in 2 years and are a lottery team, then not only do you have to make a change at the top but you also have to seriously consider replacing the core group of players....

Take care...
If the Canucks miss the playoffs next year Ignatowski is gone. He isn’t getting a chance at missing six years in a row. And no they don’t have to tear it apart if they miss the next two years .... really ??
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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

Post by Jovocop » Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:41 pm

Diehard1 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:24 pm
Cherry Picker wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:23 pm
All you people who hate the Miller trade only get to bitch about Benning BECAUSE the GM is Benning.

The ten top picks before Benning became GM were Horvat, Gaunce, Jensen, McNally, Schroeder, Hodgson, White, Grabner, Bourdon, and Schneider - Whoopdeefriggindo!

Some people act like first round picks are guaranteed hall of framers. Take a friggin pill. Sell your house and go buy a truck load of lottery tickets. There is no way you can lose!

Bunch of friggin morons.
So because Gillis was one of the worst drafters in history we should give away our 1st rounders now? Makes a lot of sense. Not to mention aside from Horvat (great pick), Hodgson (good pick until he developed a disease forcing him to retire), and Bourdon (who knows what he would have become) all of those are mid/late 1st rounders and likely not applicable to this team - you even included a 4th rounder like McNally for good measure which is just odd.

How about Jake, McCann, Brock, Olli, Petey, Quinn and Podz? I think the reason people don't like this trade is because Benning is a good drafter and we want him to use MORE picks, not trade them. I'm not sure how you spin that to what you wrote.
Back to the same discussion, if the Canucks miss the playoffs this year, JB might not be here any more. Is the next GM going to be like Gillis or Benning, or somewhere in between?

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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

Post by Uncle dans leg » Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:57 pm

Nuckertuzzi wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:15 pm
Uncle dans leg wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:55 am
The one intangible we have going for us is that Pettersson is more than your average emerging prospect. Hes a franchise type difference maker. Quinn Hughes has some of that same level of elite talent.
When you bring up those names, especially Pettersson, it's a good reminder of the adage the best trade you make is the one you don't. We offered up that No. 5 for Subban. Can you imagine the outlook now if that trade had been made.

The Miller trade improves our short term chances at making the playoffs. That's fine, but I just don't care to be a team that at best perpetually spins its wheels hovering near the playoffs with no hope of being a contender. I want a team that is a serious contender year after year. This team still needs a few more big pieces, not just complimentary parts, to get to that point and we may have blown an opportunity.

Also, there seems to be a consensus with this trade the tank is dead. Really? If anything, due to the lottery protection, I think the tank might be stronger than ever, especially for this year. If the next draft is as strong as people say I'll be cheering hard to ensure we get in on it. THEN...the tank will most certainly be dead the following year.
Well i guess we are in our seats and the captain has put on the fasten seat belts sign. We are going where he takes us whether we like it or not.

He has a vision. He wants to build around a young core of boeser pettersson horvat and hughes...and the pod i suppose. Hes going to add pieces he feels will put us over that hump to contention and is prepared to move out distant futures to get there.

At least we are seeing some sort of direction...whether its exactly how each and every one of us would do it is irrelevant really. Hes the hockey guy...we are the condescending observers lol. I'd rather see some sort of plan in action that 15 years of 1st rounders coming and going as they price themselves out of our future.
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