2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

Post by Diehard1 »

Hank wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:18 pm JB's name has been associated with pretty much every single player and trade rumour this off-season. That doesn't sound like tunnel vision to me. That sounds like a GM exploring all of his options.
That may be true, but the overpayments for Guddy, Vey, Pedan, Philip Larsen, Sutter, Prust and now JT Miller show that he either zeroes in on one player and overpays for him, or he's just a horrible trader.

As I outlined in another post, there's a whack of players available in trade right now so if you're a team with cap space you have no need to overpay to get somebody. Carolina is maybe the best example of this, they just got a free 1st round pick, have a ton of picks in next year's historically strong draft and one of the best farm systems in the league, along with maybe the best draft of any team this year. Oh, and they also made the conference finals this year. It shows what shrewd drafting, good cap management and great asset management can do.
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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

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ESQ wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:31 am
Diehard1 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:49 am
I wouldn't worry about a few posters here always defending Jimbo. I learned a while ago that they just do it for the sheer entertainment, it has nothing to do with the job they actually think he's doing. Still fun to debate them but don't ever think you'll be able to reason with them no matter what the evidence is.
Hey, I just want to say thank you, it must be exhausting being the only poster with a reasonable point of view. Seriously, bravo, we could all learn so much from you. :roll:
Ha - wasn't even talking about you but obviously somebody is quite defensive. I can't wait to hear you defend the upcoming 7 year, $49 million deal for Tyler Myers.
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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

Diehard1 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:19 am
ESQ wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:31 am
Diehard1 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:49 am
I wouldn't worry about a few posters here always defending Jimbo. I learned a while ago that they just do it for the sheer entertainment, it has nothing to do with the job they actually think he's doing. Still fun to debate them but don't ever think you'll be able to reason with them no matter what the evidence is.
Hey, I just want to say thank you, it must be exhausting being the only poster with a reasonable point of view. Seriously, bravo, we could all learn so much from you. :roll:
Ha - wasn't even talking about you but obviously somebody is quite defensive. I can't wait to hear you defend the upcoming 7 year, $49 million deal for Tyler Myers.
I often wonder how he can post with Doc’s arm lodged in his ass.
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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

Post by Diehard1 »

UWSaint wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:31 am Weighing in on the draft and the Miller trade....

(1) It really shows you what a steal it was to get Pearson for Gudbrandson.... Both have similar offensive production upsides, but Miller can be used in all situations and at any position. Miller has the wheels; Pearson is more opportunistic.

(2) It sure would have been nice to get the TML first for buying out Marleau. That would remove the sting of giving up a first. It is a sting because we've seen some pretty good drafting lately (Pettersson, Hughes, Boeser, Demko). But imagine the drafts before that? Bag-of-pucks firsts (Gaunce, Jensen, Shinkaurk).

(3) JB isn't getting to the 2021 draft without making the playoffs one of the next two seasons. At some point you have to declare that you have a core moving forward and look to supplement it. I am not certain that it is now, but I am certain that from JB's perspective it needs to be. Therefore, the pick was going to be traded this offseason, and the BPA available for it after kicking tires was Miller.

If it fails, if this core doesn't work, the Canucks will have a lot of pieces that the next GM can trade for value. That wasn't really the case once MG got canned.

(4) I continue to think that championships are won down the middle and with defense. If a first could have been used as a package to get someone who could be a #1 D, I have problems with the Miller trade from an opportunity cost perspective. (I'm sure it could have been used as a package to get Subban, I am not sure he is the man, but probably was the best available for trade). But my guess is that the tires were all kicked on potential targets *and the team decided that they'd rather make a move in free agency for a defenseman instead of a forward.* Myers or Gardiner are the best available, but neither is the #1 the Canucks need, and none are available. Both would improve this team, but there are a few players lower on the radars that might also be an improvement over the current group in terms of a defensive defensemen. Patrik Nemeth comes to mind as a third pairing/penalty killer that should be available for less than it will cost to re-sign Hutton. And we ought to ask whether Hutton is more valuable as someone to trade than as a 3rd pairing defensemen.

(5) Heavy was the word of the year. The St. Louis Blues won with a heavy team. I am always suspicious of trying to emulate cup winners. The key is not to do what they do, but to do what they can't beat. Is Miller a move towards the Blues direction?

(6) Drafting the Russian... If draft and develop is the model, the Canucks have only half of this equation solved for the moment. European leagues and the NCAA seem to do a better job at development for the Canucks than Utica/Major Junior. So let them. Is this a coincidence: Russia, NCAA, SEL, SM Liiga, NCAA? The only Canadian-born Major Junior first rounders in the JB era are Virtanen and McCann, both of who were rushed to the NHL (and both of whom will likely be serviceable-but-nothing-special NHLers). The only other major junior player is Juolevi, who they decided would be better off in Finland for a year than playing in Utica. And the verdict is still out on that one (objectively, it should be still out on Hughes, but the case went in well....).

(7) After the draft: players than can return value in a trade: Woo, Tanev, Hutton, Stecher, Virtanen, Markstrom, Demko, DiPietro, Baertschi, Roussel (at deadline), Gaudette, Sutter (at deadline, if he is healthy and playing decently). If I am another team's GM, I would look to add Goldobin for cheap -- for those who have written off Goldy, that's value. For those of us (me only?) who think he think its a better bet to give him one last season instead of grabbing a unlikely-to-reward 3rd, I'd give him this year. But Goldobin is definitely value as a sweetener in another acquisition.

Not proposing any one of these players gets traded in particular, but this is what JB is working with for the next move. On top of that, he will be looking to move Eriksson and Spooner without having to out up a dowry or take a bad contract.
Some really good points in here - agree with much of it. I disagree with MG not leaving much for Jimbo - guys like Kesler, Garrison, Bieksa, Edler, Sedins, Hodgson, etc could have been traded and most were. The returns were decent in terms of players or picks, it's Jimbo who turned them into almost zero value from there with Vey, Kassian/Prust, Sbisa, Bonino, 2nd, etc.

Agreed re: the D, it's still shoddy and needs a ton of work. One of Myers or Gardiner is almost surely a Canuck at a massive contract (will weigh in on that if/when it happens) and I expect Jimbo will pick up another player of the Nemeth/Benn ilk as well. Should be able to move either a Hutton or Tanev after that. The issue is there's so little money available in the system teams won't give up much value as they can't sign them - or at least that's the perception. Let's see what Jimbo is able to accomplish.

As for the Podz pick, I agree that Europe and the NCAA seem to be better development models than Utica. The CHL is still very good as well, lots of players coming out of there, but Russia is a good spot for Podz to be. Juolevi couldn't play in Utica 2 years ago given his age, it was either the CHL again or Europe and I think they made the right call, it's just unfortunate he had the injuries last year. I still have high hopes there. As for Utica, there's a major issue with the development there given stalled development for a number of good prospects. Jimbo needs to have a long chat with Cull and let him know this is a development team, not one where he's supposed to try and showcase himself as a coach for future NHL employment.

Agreed also on returning value after the draft - there are a few forwards to move, and my guess is at least one or two get bought out or buried in the minors as well. I'd like Goldy to be back on this team as well though I'm not sure Green shares that sentiment. If Jimbo can move Eriksson or Spooner without taking on money in return he'll be a miracle worker even if he's the one to blame for those contracts in the first place. We won't hear anything on Loui until after July 1 when his bonus is payable, but my guess is he's likely moved after that for minimal (if any) return.
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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

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Diehard1 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:36 am
Some really good points in here - agree with much of it. I disagree with MG not leaving much for Jimbo - guys like Kesler, Garrison, Bieksa, Edler, Sedins, Hodgson, etc could have been traded and most were. The returns were decent in terms of players or picks, it's Jimbo who turned them into almost zero value from there with Vey, Kassian/Prust, Sbisa, Bonino, 2nd, etc.
Hodgson was traded by Gillis in 2012 trade deadline, not GMJB. Kesler, Garrison, Bieska, Edler and Sedins all had some sorts of clauses (NMC, NTC) to their contracts.
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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

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Diehard1 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:16 am
Hank wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:18 pm JB's name has been associated with pretty much every single player and trade rumour this off-season. That doesn't sound like tunnel vision to me. That sounds like a GM exploring all of his options.
That may be true, but the overpayments for Guddy, Vey, Pedan, Philip Larsen, Sutter, Prust and now JT Miller show that he either zeroes in on one player and overpays for him, or he's just a horrible trader.

As I outlined in another post, there's a whack of players available in trade right now so if you're a team with cap space you have no need to overpay to get somebody. Carolina is maybe the best example of this, they just got a free 1st round pick, have a ton of picks in next year's historically strong draft and one of the best farm systems in the league, along with maybe the best draft of any team this year. Oh, and they also made the conference finals this year. It shows what shrewd drafting, good cap management and great asset management can do.
I don't know DieHard...

$72 million over 8 years with a full NMC for Skinner?

Will be interesting to see what they do with Aho...

What if they lose Ferland for nothing and whose in net next year?

All of those names you list are dime a dozen players who rotate in and out of NHL lineups on a regular basis...Every team has them and no reason to waste a frown muscle worrying about them....

Wasn't that long ago that many were gaga over leaves management with Shanahan and Lou and the wonder kid....Even brought in Gilman the supposed cap master...

Whereas Benning was able to sign Edler to a 2 year deal, the leaves signed Marleau to a 3 year deal which extended into the new deals the likes of Matthews and Nylander and Marner would be signing causing such a cap issue that they had to give away a first round pick to shed the contract so that they can sign Marner....

And let's not beat the Nylander contract up any more than the rest of the hockey world does...

The leaves didn't have a first round pick this year and gave away their first round pick next year and still haven't won a playoff series with their current core group of players...

We can go on and knit pick other GM's track record...

At the end of the day, the team is trending in the right direction and while the local scribes hated the deal and are now softening to it, most of the National media feel the deal was a fair deal....

Take care...
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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

Post by mr perfect »

rikster wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:18 pm
Diehard1 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:16 am
Hank wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:18 pm JB's name has been associated with pretty much every single player and trade rumour this off-season. That doesn't sound like tunnel vision to me. That sounds like a GM exploring all of his options.
That may be true, but the overpayments for Guddy, Vey, Pedan, Philip Larsen, Sutter, Prust and now JT Miller show that he either zeroes in on one player and overpays for him, or he's just a horrible trader.

As I outlined in another post, there's a whack of players available in trade right now so if you're a team with cap space you have no need to overpay to get somebody. Carolina is maybe the best example of this, they just got a free 1st round pick, have a ton of picks in next year's historically strong draft and one of the best farm systems in the league, along with maybe the best draft of any team this year. Oh, and they also made the conference finals this year. It shows what shrewd drafting, good cap management and great asset management can do.
I don't know DieHard...

$72 million over 8 years with a full NMC for Skinner?

Will be interesting to see what they do with Aho...

What if they lose Ferland for nothing and whose in net next year?

All of those names you list are dime a dozen players who rotate in and out of NHL lineups on a regular basis...Every team has them and no reason to waste a frown muscle worrying about them....

Wasn't that long ago that many were gaga over Leaves management with Shanahan and Lou and the wonder kid....Even brought in Gilman the supposed cap master...

Whereas Benning was able to sign Edler to a 2 year deal, the Leaves signed Marleau to a 3 year deal which extended into the new deals the likes of Matthews and Nylander and Marner would be signing causing such a cap issue that they had to give away a first round pick to shed the contract so that they can sign Marner....

And let's not beat the Nylander contract up any more than the rest of the hockey world does...

The Leaves didn't have a first round pick this year and gave away their first round pick next year and still haven't won a playoff series with their current core group of players...

We can go on and knit pick other GM's track record...

At the end of the day, the team is trending in the right direction and while the local scribes hated the deal and are now softening to it, most of the National media feel the deal was a fair deal....

Take care...
Skinner's in Buffalo.

Can you or anyone else here give me some examples where a perennial rebuilding/non playoff team traded their first rounder for a veteran player not named Gretzky and benefitted long term? The ghost of Sam Pollock and myself can wait.
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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

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UWSaint wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:31 am Weighing in on the draft and the Miller trade....
Nice post. Re. Emulating the Blues - what they succeeded at was shutting down the Bruins' scoring line. When they did that, the Bruins lacked the scoring depth to overcome. Imo, Miller brings added scoring depth, as did Pearson. It would have been nice if Loui and Sven provided that depth, but neither worked out. Both were acquired after the Gillis era for virtually nothing, so it's not a big deal that they didn't work out. As others have said, it will be a Very Big Deal if Miller does not work out.

Re. The major-junior/AHL route, the canucks are definitely not alone in that regard. The vast majority of offensive stars in the league skip the AHL. The AHL is really a proving ground for B/C level prospects - which is something the canucks have struggled with. However, several such prospects remain in the NCAA, and will likely skip the AHL - Gaudette, Rathbone, Lockwood. That leaves the dregs of the prospect pool in the A. When we saw a productive farm team, it was during the 04 lockout, when guys that would have skipped the farm wound up cooking another year.
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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

Post by Lancer »

ESQ wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:12 pm
UWSaint wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:31 am Weighing in on the draft and the Miller trade....
Re. The major-junior/AHL route, the canucks are definitely not alone in that regard. The vast majority of offensive stars in the league skip the AHL. The AHL is really a proving ground for B/C level prospects - which is something the canucks have struggled with. However, several such prospects remain in the NCAA, and will likely skip the AHL - Gaudette, Rathbone, Lockwood. That leaves the dregs of the prospect pool in the A. When we saw a productive farm team, it was during the 04 lockout, when guys that would have skipped the farm wound up cooking another year.
Tend to agree. Makes you wonder what the CHL isn't doing WRT developing players for the next level. People could argue that the CHL shouldn't care - it's not their job. I think the NHL should negotiate a better agreement regarding releasing drafted players and letting them play in the AHL sooner, rather than stick them in the CHL for two more years. It didn't really hurt Horvat; I would argue it hurt Juolevi - and London is acknowledged as one of the better programs in this regard. I heard somewhere that one of the big reasons for keeping Virtanen in Vancouver was because they had zero confidence in the Hitmen's ability to develop Virtanen if he went back to them.

Once they're drafted, the clubs should have more say in what happens to their drafted assets. I don't think the players nor the agents would disagree.

I still think Utica needs some cleaning up - especially with the coaching. Ryan Johnson has done some good work there in his first year or two, but Cull is no Green. When you hear stories of players checking out on him before the season is out, you have to wonder.
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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

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mr perfect wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:57 pm
Can you or anyone else here give me some examples where a perennial rebuilding/non playoff team traded their first rounder for a veteran player not named Gretzky and benefitted long term? The ghost of Sam Pollock and myself can wait.
Interesting way of looking at it. Edmonton, Arizona, Ottawa, Buffalo have not traded 1sts. Yet they are the worst franchises for rebuild models.

St Louis, funnily enough, traded 3 of their 8 first rounders prior to winning the cup.

The Jets hoarded all of their picks until 2018, trading away their first and finally, for the first time in franchise history (over 15 years), winning a playoff round.

I don't know if that's the point you are trying to make, but it's a fascinating trend nonetheless.
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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

Post by Diehard1 »

rikster wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:18 pm
Diehard1 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:16 am
Hank wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:18 pm JB's name has been associated with pretty much every single player and trade rumour this off-season. That doesn't sound like tunnel vision to me. That sounds like a GM exploring all of his options.
That may be true, but the overpayments for Guddy, Vey, Pedan, Philip Larsen, Sutter, Prust and now JT Miller show that he either zeroes in on one player and overpays for him, or he's just a horrible trader.

As I outlined in another post, there's a whack of players available in trade right now so if you're a team with cap space you have no need to overpay to get somebody. Carolina is maybe the best example of this, they just got a free 1st round pick, have a ton of picks in next year's historically strong draft and one of the best farm systems in the league, along with maybe the best draft of any team this year. Oh, and they also made the conference finals this year. It shows what shrewd drafting, good cap management and great asset management can do.
I don't know DieHard...

$72 million over 8 years with a full NMC for Skinner?

Will be interesting to see what they do with Aho...

What if they lose Ferland for nothing and whose in net next year?

All of those names you list are dime a dozen players who rotate in and out of NHL lineups on a regular basis...Every team has them and no reason to waste a frown muscle worrying about them....

Wasn't that long ago that many were gaga over Leaves management with Shanahan and Lou and the wonder kid....Even brought in Gilman the supposed cap master...

Whereas Benning was able to sign Edler to a 2 year deal, the Leaves signed Marleau to a 3 year deal which extended into the new deals the likes of Matthews and Nylander and Marner would be signing causing such a cap issue that they had to give away a first round pick to shed the contract so that they can sign Marner....

And let's not beat the Nylander contract up any more than the rest of the hockey world does...

The Leaves didn't have a first round pick this year and gave away their first round pick next year and still haven't won a playoff series with their current core group of players...

We can go on and knit pick other GM's track record...

At the end of the day, the team is trending in the right direction and while the local scribes hated the deal and are now softening to it, most of the National media feel the deal was a fair deal....

Take care...
Hey Rikster,

As already said, Skinner is in BLo. I'm not sure Carolina got enough for him in return with a 2nd this year, and 3rd and 6th rounders next year, but he did only have 1 year left on his deal.

Ferland barely played in the playoffs, he was injured most of it so it's not really applicable.

Carolina has very good young players in Aho, Teravainen (cap dump from the Hawks, just score 76 points), Svechnikov, Neidereiter and guys like Necas and Geekie ready to step in. Their D is the best young D in the league with Pesce, Slavin, Faulk, Dougie Hamilton and prospects like Jake Bean and Haydn Fleury NHL ready. This is a very good young team that will be a true contender for years to come - did I mention they have 11 picks next year including 2 first rounders and 3 thirds?

The point regarding the players Jimbo has gone through isn't that they were good, it's quite the opposite - the point is Jimbo wasted an asset or assets on every one of them. That's not good management. I get you have to take a swing but he's taken a lot of them and hasn't connected on many. His top 10 picks have done well so far but you need more than just that.

As for the leaves - they are a great example of what happens when you have very good to great young players. Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Reilly, Kapanen, Johnsson, Kadri, Brown as home grown (more or less) and Tavares, Muzzin added to their core. They have cap issues but so does almost every good team. We're really comparing apples and oranges here though as the leaves are coming off 95, 105 and 100 point seasons while we've been 69, 73 and 81 in the same seasons.

I agree we are trending in the right direction, again mostly due to Jimbo's picks in the top of the draft. I don't know how many times I have to give him credit for these before people get it, but I'll say it again - he's done very well there aside from Jake. I still think Juolevi will be a top 4 dman as soon as this year and the rest look very good to great. It's the signings (mostly bad to very bad) and trades (almost all bad) that I have issue with.

The team will continue to trend in the right direction with Petey, Hughes, Horvat and Boeser at the helm, but I can't shake the feeling that it's not going to be Jimbo building the rest of the team. I think this is his last year and Aquaman will be replacing him with a new GM at the end of this season. I hope I'm wrong and we are cheering for a playoff team next year, I just can't see it happening with the roster Jimbo has constructed.
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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

Post by Diehard1 »

ESQ wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:29 pm
mr perfect wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:57 pm
Can you or anyone else here give me some examples where a perennial rebuilding/non playoff team traded their first rounder for a veteran player not named Gretzky and benefitted long term? The ghost of Sam Pollock and myself can wait.
Interesting way of looking at it. Edmonton, Arizona, Ottawa, Buffalo have not traded 1sts. Yet they are the worst franchises for rebuild models.

St Louis, funnily enough, traded 3 of their 8 first rounders prior to winning the cup.

The Jets hoarded all of their picks until 2018, trading away their first and finally, for the first time in franchise history (over 15 years), winning a playoff round.

I don't know if that's the point you are trying to make, but it's a fascinating trend nonetheless.
I think he's asking for rebuilding teams that traded a first rounder, not teams like St. Louis that haven't picked before the 20s in the last 7-8 years.

The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Ottawa for Duchene, and that might be the worst trade of the past 10 years. I'm sure there must be others.
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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

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Lancer wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:27 pm
Tend to agree. Makes you wonder what the CHL isn't doing WRT developing players for the next level. People could argue that the CHL shouldn't care - it's not their job. I think the NHL should negotiate a better agreement regarding releasing drafted players and letting them play in the AHL sooner, rather than stick them in the CHL for two more years. It didn't really hurt Horvat; I would argue it hurt Juolevi - and London is acknowledged as one of the better programs in this regard. I heard somewhere that one of the big reasons for keeping Virtanen in Vancouver was because they had zero confidence in the Hitmen's ability to develop Virtanen if he went back to them.

Once they're drafted, the clubs should have more say in what happens to their drafted assets. I don't think the players nor the agents would disagree.

I still think Utica needs some cleaning up - especially with the coaching. Ryan Johnson has done some good work there in his first year or two, but Cull is no Green. When you hear stories of players checking out on him before the season is out, you have to wonder.
What is the objective of Junior if not to develop players? Is the OHL, the Q and the WHL to political now to properly develop players when we see so many prospects coming out of the US development league? I agree 100% the NHL needs to work more closer with the junior teams to not only develop but to provide better nutritional information and other aspects. Now as I am not involved at all so I may be smoking some of UDL good stuff again.
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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

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Diehard1 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:33 pm
ESQ wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:29 pm
mr perfect wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:57 pm
Can you or anyone else here give me some examples where a perennial rebuilding/non playoff team traded their first rounder for a veteran player not named Gretzky and benefitted long term? The ghost of Sam Pollock and myself can wait.
Interesting way of looking at it. Edmonton, Arizona, Ottawa, Buffalo have not traded 1sts. Yet they are the worst franchises for rebuild models.

St Louis, funnily enough, traded 3 of their 8 first rounders prior to winning the cup.

The Jets hoarded all of their picks until 2018, trading away their first and finally, for the first time in franchise history (over 15 years), winning a playoff round.

I don't know if that's the point you are trying to make, but it's a fascinating trend nonetheless.
I think he's asking for rebuilding teams that traded a first rounder, not teams like St. Louis that haven't picked before the 20s in the last 7-8 years.

The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Ottawa for Duchene, and that might be the worst trade of the past 10 years. I'm sure there must be others.
I don't think you can compare the pre-cap Gretzky era to the current cap era where players are getting max contracts right out of their ELCs. That wasn't even the case a few years ago. The window literally opens and closes much faster now.

Even if we had a new GM right now, the Aqua timeline doesn't change... it's playoffs in 19-20 or 20-21. No excuses.

Let's say Tampa gets our 2021 1st rounder. Best case scenario is he comes in 2-3 years, with no guarantees of making an impact in the top-6.

Given the owner mandate and helping the core (Petey, Brock, Bo, Hughes) reach contending status sooner rather than later, a proven top-6, big, youngish, veteran winger on a great contract is a reasonable gamble. He brings the requisite skills they need right now. You can move towards contention in the next 2-3 years or wait for a 1st rounder and other picks to hopefully develop?

Buffalo and Edmonton have been stewing in their messes for years, wasting their core because they don't bring in the right veteran supplements at the right time.

At some point, you gotta shit or get off the pot.

(this isn't directed at you Diehard, just adding to the discussion)

EDIT: Just got to add... 4 years without playoffs after more than a decade of success is not a perennial rebuilding/non playoff team. Buffalo and Edmonton are more in this category. Even the great Detroit franchise (with a fuller cupboard) has now missed 3 years in a row with an avg. of 70 points a season.

With this owner, you can even debate when the rebuilding actually started.
Last edited by Carl Yagro on Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

Post by ESQ »

Diehard1 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:33 pm
I think he's asking for rebuilding teams that traded a first rounder, not teams like St. Louis that haven't picked before the 20s in the last 7-8 years.
Right, the Blues were in the tank prior to that, picking #1 and #4 just a few seasons prior to starting to trade their 1sts consistently.
The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Ottawa for Duchene, and that might be the worst trade of the past 10 years. I'm sure there must be others.
There's also the Kessel trade, but that was ten years ago. And the Duchene trade was after a Senators run to the ECF, so I don't think that would qualify necessarily as "perennially rebuilding". And funnily enough, Duchene recouped one 1st, and possibly a second 1st if he resigns in Columbus. I wouldn't call a 15-spot downgrade "the worst trade of the past 10 years", particularly if that second 1st comes along.
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