2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

[rats19]

Yes thanks Blob.

See you at the secret meeting Ratski.

Copy that

[Carl Yagro]

So when someone makes a claim that someone else is a "Genius" we should all just accept that statement without proof.

But that isn't "blind faith" or being a sheep.

Ok.

Is the earth flat too?

What is being proved? Consider the source of the "claim".

Dude created this "Genius" and Doc is trolling #NextLevel with it.

Doesn't take a genius to see this.

Ok, back to the draft...

[Carl Yagro]

Do people here think that Dach is going to be a good one?

Ever since I saw Jett Woo destroy him twice, I just have visions of him ending up like Lindros.

[DonCherry4PM]

So when someone makes a claim that someone else is a "Genius" we should all just accept that statement without proof.

But that isn't "blind faith" or being a sheep.

Ok.

Is the earth flat too?

What is being proved? Consider the source of the "claim".

Dude created this "Genius" and Doc is trolling #NextLevel with it.

Doesn't take a genius to see this.

Ok, back to the draft...

Ah, so your comments directed at RG were really just out of concern that he not get trolled rather than criticisms of his desire to see evidence supporting various claims.

Yes, let's do get back to the draft.

https://www.nhl.com/news/2019-nhl-draft ... -306553438

We only have to wait until tomorrow to see whether our fantasy comes true. 5% odds of getting the Hughes bothers together.

Will JB be even more of a "Genius" if the lotto balls fall in our favour?

[Chef Boi RD]

Do people here think that Dach is going to be a good one?

Ever since I saw Jett Woo destroy him twice, I just have visions of him ending up like Lindros.

Maybe I just happened to catch one of his on games instead of his off games but he was quite impressive.

[Diehard1]

. It’s his biggest downfall as a GM IMHO, his lack of creativity in understanding how to build a team.

Yet here we are...a stable full of up and coming stars with plenty more developing in the wings.

Thats pretty well the textbook definition of a rebuilding team dude.

Bitches gunna bitch bro...

And no one mentions that the owners tweeted in 15 parts, finally using the words "Rebuild" and "Patience". The same sentiment that Linden finally uttered and got him canned.

Seems to me when this regime started, they were verboten to use these terms (Shhh, don't mention the war!)

So JB basically had to work under these constraints while building a new prospect pool from scratch. If he had any previous NHL-ready prospects, I'm sure he would've kept some of the picks instead.

I mean, if the owner wanted to continue pushing for more revenue, does it make much sense to hopefully wait for picks that might or might not turn out in 3-4 years? The owner had great loyalty to the 2011 team like the Sedins, Edler, etc. How many Chaputs and Megnas could you dredge up to support the previous core? Really.

Man, are people still not happy at where this team is at right now?

Is this a serious question? 5 straight seasons with no playoffs and we are supposed to be happy? I think most are fine with where the development arc is going for the young guys, but there are a number of other issues that seem to be glossed over again and again. I'm amazed how much support there is for a management team that has the worst overall record in Canucks history - a history that is pretty damn terrible, so that's saying a lot.

I don't mind a number of things they've done, but the unwavering support is just bizarre.

Notice in bold "Right Now", here in the present moment. It sounds to me like most people here are hopeful AND happy at the direction this team is headed for in the near future... RIGHT NOW in the present. Oh yeah, and that's 4 years of no playoffs. Serious!

And yet you gloss over the complete Canucks' history. Were the teams in the 70's or 80's who made the playoffs only to be crushed again and again by powerhouses much better than this "worst teams in Canucks' history"? How come you don't mention the best consecutive drafting in Canucks' history.

Were you seriously expecting a return to playoffs in 3 years or less if we'd only gotten more draft picks? Never mind the already known history of the owners' desire for revenue and only finally seeing a need for a full rebuild until after he fired the President? Never mind the already well-established fact of having zero young NHL players (except for a rookie Bo Horvat) or prospects in the system. Never mind the long list of NTCs or NMCs the GM had to get rid of.

So this management group is so inept it's bucking the league average in doing a full rebuild that will lead the team back into the playoffs? What is the league average btw? The Oilers model? The Arizona model? The Buffalo model? The Carolina model? The TO Tank model? The Avs yo-yo model where they go from a top team to a lottery team in one year and then luck out in getting top players like Mackinnon, Duchene, Landeskog, etc., then repeat that process?

Really, in a cap-world where windows open and shut quickly, we should expect a much faster turn around? Has every other NHL team rebuilt better and faster than the Canucks? If this team continues trending up and gets back to the glory days, should we still get pissed off about these 4 years of no playoffs and the "worst tenure in history"? Did you even enjoy this season of young up and coming stars taking control of the team and competing every night?

You seriously were not happy once about what happened this season?

People realize that no GM is perfect, but can find a cloud in the silver lining and support the mostly good of what's been transpiring. What's bizarre is the unwavering negativity even after a very positive season.

I think someone might have mentioned a few times that some people can't handle a rebuild.

Talk about missing the point - where to start?

Benning has the worst winning record of any Nucks GM in history. That is a fact. I didn’t say this was the worst team in history but feel free to continue on your rant.

Was I expecting this team to make the playoffs in 3 years after bottoming out? I mean, it’s never happened right so how could one expect that? Unless:

Colorado - worst team in salary cap era history with 48 points in 2016-17. Made playoffs with 95 points the next season, and also made the playoffs this year.

LA - bottomed out in 2006-07 with 68 points. Made the playoffs 2 years later with 101 points, won the cup 2 years after that.

Chicago - bottomed out in 2003-04 with 59 points, but also only had 65 in 2005-06 (lockout year in between remember). Made the playoffs in 2008-09, won the cup a year later.

leaves - bottomed out in 2014-15 with 68 points. Also sucked in 15-16 with 69 points. Made the playoffs in 16-17 and continue to be a contender with heir 3rd straight playoff appearance.

Preds - bottomed out with 41 points in the lockout year. Missed the playoffs the next season and now are in their 5th straight playoffs.

Blues - bottomed out in 2005-06 with 57 points, made the playoffs 2 seasons after and subsequently made 8 of the next 11 years, including this year.

Pitt - bottomed out in 2003-04 and 2005-06, again lockout year in there so that’s 2 consecutive seasons. Made the playoffs in 06-07 and now headed into their 13th(!) playoffs in a row.

Need I continue? I definitely could, as most teams follow this rule. I mean, who expects them to rebuild and make the playoffs in 3 years when there are no examples right?

As for the Oilers, Arizona, Buffalo model - those teams are the exception, not the norm. They have sucked harder than anybody in the league the past 10 or so years, so why would we ever want to hold ourselves to that standard? Buffalo is the only team with more losses than the Nucks in the past 4 years, Edmonton is terribly run franchise, one of the worst in all pro sports not just the NHL, and Arizona is a bankrupt team that has a payroll typically 25% less than ours. Why do we even talk about these teams except to dismiss them?

As for being happy this year - you really just have missed how many times I said to sit back and enjoy the entertainment, it was a ton of fun watching Petey do his thing, Bo improve massively, loved Hughes’ 5 games, thought Demko looked very strong, etc. Yep I enjoyed all of that, and yep, I’m still not happy with where this team is because it could be much better.

As for the unwavering negativity, you are either being intentionally obtuse or you just haven’t read any of my posts in this thread. I call it as I see it, I have no agenda and don’t try to be negative or positive. I don’t blindly follow along and I will criticize Benning, Green, the team, Aquilini when I think it’s warranted. I will also praise them when it’s warranted. Being positive about the future and criticizing past moved are not mutually exclusive. If you think that’s being negative you are again missing the point.

As for not handling a rebuild, I’ve been around here a lot longer than almost anyone, and was on other message boards before that. Been over 25 years now. I think with that staying power I’ve proven time and time again I can handle a rebuild - in fact I’d like to see more of it!

[Diehard1]

This is amusing as usual but back to the point:

Watched a lot of video/ partial games on some kids over the weekend

One of Byram, Cozens or Turcotte pls. Fucking mighty mite Caufield can flat out play too

My guess is Byram is long gone simply because he’s a D, which is relatively unique in this draft. Cozens maybe, but I expect a team like Jersey to grab him as they seem to love big guys who can skate fast, even if they don’t have the best hockey sense (Zacha, Mike McLeod).

Turcotte is one of my favourites, do everything centre that reminds me a bit of Monahan, just solid all around. That said, I also like Zegras, Krebs, and Dach as centres as well.

I guess I will post my new list after the lottery tomorrow, where I fully expect to drop a spot and pick 10.

[Cousin Strawberry]

Well sheee-yit. Wherever we pick we will be adding another solid asset into the pool. New guy will fit right in with the current core i would imagine. Who is commited to another year of college again? Was it turcotte?

[Ronning's Ghost]

You seem to be arguing, on the one hand, that we have too many young players playing up in the line up

I would appear to have explained myself poorly. Apologies. I am arguing that the Canucks have too many placeholders playing up in the lineup.

You are also relying upon false logic about how he could/should have acquired those picks. Without evidence, without proof, you have made assumptions that he could/should have gotten better returns than he did, simply because you think he could/should have?

As i explained, there can be no "proof" as I understand the word. I explained the logic behind why I suspect the returns could have been better. More important to my argument, though, that the returns had been earlier, and taken the form of draft picks.

Based upon a few faulty assumptions you've decided the rebuild has failed? Yet admit that no matter who the GM was we would basically be in the same position.

Ummm...I think that was your position. I neither agreed nor disagreed.

Sure, if Benning had another 5-8 picks over the last five drafts we would have more prospects in the system. Can't argue that. That doesn't necessarily translate into being further along in our development.

For me, the concern is not that the Canucks should be farther along, but that it should be across a broader front, with more depth, and more young players in the system. The crust, I maintain, is too thin. That's where I'd look for an advantage in having had another 5-8 picks over the last five drafts.

The value of having vets like Hamhuis, Bieksa, the Twins, Edler, Tanev, Sutter, Beagle,Rousell even Burrows, for the few extra years we had some of them and the remaining years on others, is invaluable to the development of all those draft picks.

Except for Tanev and Edler, none of the vets who were here are the start of rebuild were around to mentor Pettersson and Hughes. I was mildly in favour of signing Rousell and Beagle -- in fact, those signings reinforce my point. If veteran leadership is important during the rebuild, management can sign good leaders from free agency when required, after trading away more talented, higher value assets.

And why do you arbitrarily suggest success is winning 6 playoff games.

You know, I explained that. The other half of Strangelove's prediction was "and look good once they got there." He declined to explain what that meant, so I offered what would look good to me.

But let's say that was too high a standard. Let's say -- hypothetically -- that I should have been convinced that the rebuild were proceeding well if the Canucks won only two playoff games in 2019. That's not going to happen either, so the point is moot.

Benning has been successful. The results are there.

Well the ultimate goal is a Cup of course.

And when the Canucks win the Cup, I'll talk about how successful the rebuild was.

Edit: actually, Royal Dude promised multiple Cups in a dynasty. That would be the result of a genius rebuild.

[Ronning's Ghost]

Blob has become nothing more than a cheerleader for those who appear to him to challenge the Great Strangelove.

Appear to challenge ?

It looks like this is, in fact, a mere trolling, and not an honest discussion.

I'll leave you to your games, then.

I hope someone was at least entertained.

[Carl Yagro]

I don't want to make this too long because this thread was supposed about the ENTRY DRAFT.

The 2014 - 2015 team had these top five scorers:

Daniel (34 years old)
Henrik (34)
Vrbata (33)
Bonino (26)
Higgins (31)

^ An absolutely murderers row

No longer did we have the great Lu/Schneids tandem. We had a competent Ryan Miller (34 years old).

Bo Horvat was a rookie (19). There was a 15-year gap between present and future. This highlights how truly terrible the drafting and development was under the previous regime.

Look at this lineup. It was horrible for a 101 point team. We would be much further ahead if this team had missed the playoffs and the owners saw the light.

Talk about missing the point - where to start?

Hmmm... yes...

Was I expecting this team to make the playoffs in 3 years after bottoming out? I mean, it’s never happened right so how could one expect that? Unless:

Colorado - worst team in salary cap era history with 48 points in 2016-17. Made playoffs with 95 points the next season, and also made the playoffs this year.

2013 - 2014 - They had 112 points (with a core of Duchene (23), Stastny (28), Landeskog (21), Johnson (25), Barrie (22), Mackinnon (18)) <- This ain't the chopped liver the Canucks had.

From 2014 - 2015 to 2015 - 2016, they missed the playoffs with 90 and 82 points. When they "bottomed out" in 2016 - 2017 with 48 points, they had the same core minus Statsny but added new draft pick Tyson Jost, who made his debut.

In fact, it was just that a very good, young, up and coming team had an epically bad year for whatever reasons. They rebounded back in 2017 - 2018 as Rantanen took a huge step, Landeskog returned to form and with the addition of Kerfoot.

They also dropped to 69 points in 2008 - 2009 from 95 points in the previous year. They returned to the playoffs in 2009 - 2010 with the transition from Sakic/Forsberg to Statsny/Duchene.

This is hardly the rebuild model that any team can follow. But it's much easier to expedite when you draft well and win the lottery! Also by having HOFs set their culture for so long. The Nordiques/Avs have had a constant stream of great players that few teams could emulate.

LA - bottomed out in 2006-07 with 68 points. Made the playoffs 2 years later with 101 points, won the cup 2 years after that.

LA missed the playoffs from 2002 - 2003 to 2008 -2009. That's 6 years. After "bottoming out" at 68 points, they got 71 & 79 points, before getting back into the playoffs in 2009 - 2010 with 101 points.

Now, I will agree with you that LA's "rebuild" (If you can call it that. I can't say for certain since I didn't follow them during this period) is the type of normal rebuilds that many teams could emulate. They absolutely stole franchise center Kopitar (or had it drop in their laps), Doughty, Quick, Brown... that's a core.

Where would we be now if we had drafted Kopitar? Sigh. RIP Luc.

Pitt - bottomed out in 2003-04 and 2005-06, again lockout year in there so that’s 2 consecutive seasons. Made the playoffs in 06-07 and now headed into their 13th(!) playoffs in a row.

I'm not sure why you would even use the Pens as an example. They missed the playoffs from 2001 - 2002 to 2005 - 2006. That's 4 years... and that's with Mario effin' Lemieux!

Sure, you're going to bottom out when Mario only plays ten games and your leading scorer is defenceman DICK TARNSTROM with 52 points.

37-year old Mario at scored 91 points in 67 games. 40-year old Mario still scored 22 points in 26 games. He played with rookie Sidney Crosby who scored 102 points. Sidney effin' Crosby, a HOF who they won in a league-wide lottery.

They also won the lottery with #2 overall HOF Malkin and #1 overall HOF Fleury.

Hardly a plan that rebuilding teams can count on.

Need I continue? I definitely could, as most teams follow this rule. I mean, who expects them to rebuild and make the playoffs in 3 years when there are no examples right?

Okay... sure

Man, I have to stop for now. It's getting way too long. I might revisit this but I'm sure people are sick of this debate in this here NHL DRAFT thread and after just finishing this exciting season.

[Mickey107]

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............................................................................June 21 and 22 is it? um, ya.

[Hockey Widow]

I just got a chill. I think the hockey gawds are speaking to me. Tuesday will be a good day, I hear. Either that or I'm stoned from all the second hand marijuana smoke.

[Meds]

LA missed the playoffs from 2002 - 2003 to 2008 -2009. That's 6 years. After "bottoming out" at 68 points, they got 71 & 79 points, before getting back into the playoffs in 2009 - 2010 with 101 points.

Now, I will agree with you that LA's "rebuild" (If you can call it that. I can't say for certain since I didn't follow them during this period) is the type of normal rebuilds that many teams could emulate. They absolutely stole franchise center Kopitar (or had it drop in their laps), Doughty, Quick, Brown... that's a core.

Where would we be now if we had drafted Kopitar? Sigh. RIP Luc.

I feel like tagging Kopitar as a franchise center gets tossed around to freely. I'm not sold on it. He's an elite level forward, but he's not franchise level.

Had we drafted him we probably would have had Hank-Kopitar-Kesler down the middle. Which would be unquestionably the best trio of centers that any team could boast in the past decade.

We wouldn't have had anyone to play with Kopitar and Kesler though. It was salary cap era hockey, it is what it is.

[Diehard1]

I don't want to make this too long because this thread was supposed about the ENTRY DRAFT.

The 2014 - 2015 team had these top five scorers:

Daniel (34 years old)
Henrik (34)
Vrbata (33)
Bonino (26)
Higgins (31)

^ An absolutely murderers row

No longer did we have the great Lu/Schneids tandem. We had a competent Ryan Miller (34 years old).

Bo Horvat was a rookie (19). There was a 15-year gap between present and future. This highlights how truly terrible the drafting and development was under the previous regime.

Look at this lineup. It was horrible for a 101 point team. We would be much further ahead if this team had missed the playoffs and the owners saw the light.

Talk about missing the point - where to start?

Hmmm... yes...

Was I expecting this team to make the playoffs in 3 years after bottoming out? I mean, it’s never happened right so how could one expect that? Unless:

Colorado - worst team in salary cap era history with 48 points in 2016-17. Made playoffs with 95 points the next season, and also made the playoffs this year.

2013 - 2014 - They had 112 points (with a core of Duchene (23), Stastny (28), Landeskog (21), Johnson (25), Barrie (22), Mackinnon (18)) <- This ain't the chopped liver the Canucks had.

From 2014 - 2015 to 2015 - 2016, they missed the playoffs with 90 and 82 points. When they "bottomed out" in 2016 - 2017 with 48 points, they had the same core minus Statsny but added new draft pick Tyson Jost, who made his debut.

In fact, it was just that a very good, young, up and coming team had an epically bad year for whatever reasons. They rebounded back in 2017 - 2018 as Rantanen took a huge step, Landeskog returned to form and with the addition of Kerfoot.

They also dropped to 69 points in 2008 - 2009 from 95 points in the previous year. They returned to the playoffs in 2009 - 2010 with the transition from Sakic/Forsberg to Statsny/Duchene.

This is hardly the rebuild model that any team can follow. But it's much easier to expedite when you draft well and win the lottery! Also by having HOFs set their culture for so long. The Nordiques/Avs have had a constant stream of great players that few teams could emulate.

LA - bottomed out in 2006-07 with 68 points. Made the playoffs 2 years later with 101 points, won the cup 2 years after that.

LA missed the playoffs from 2002 - 2003 to 2008 -2009. That's 6 years. After "bottoming out" at 68 points, they got 71 & 79 points, before getting back into the playoffs in 2009 - 2010 with 101 points.

Now, I will agree with you that LA's "rebuild" (If you can call it that. I can't say for certain since I didn't follow them during this period) is the type of normal rebuilds that many teams could emulate. They absolutely stole franchise center Kopitar (or had it drop in their laps), Doughty, Quick, Brown... that's a core.

Where would we be now if we had drafted Kopitar? Sigh. RIP Luc.

Pitt - bottomed out in 2003-04 and 2005-06, again lockout year in there so that’s 2 consecutive seasons. Made the playoffs in 06-07 and now headed into their 13th(!) playoffs in a row.

I'm not sure why you would even use the Pens as an example. They missed the playoffs from 2001 - 2002 to 2005 - 2006. That's 4 years... and that's with Mario effin' Lemieux!

Sure, you're going to bottom out when Mario only plays ten games and your leading scorer is defenceman DICK TARNSTROM with 52 points.

37-year old Mario at scored 91 points in 67 games. 40-year old Mario still scored 22 points in 26 games. He played with rookie Sidney Crosby who scored 102 points. Sidney effin' Crosby, a HOF who they won in a league-wide lottery.

They also won the lottery with #2 overall HOF Malkin and #1 overall HOF Fleury.

Hardly a plan that rebuilding teams can count on.

Need I continue? I definitely could, as most teams follow this rule. I mean, who expects them to rebuild and make the playoffs in 3 years when there are no examples right?

Okay... sure

Man, I have to stop for now. It's getting way too long. I might revisit this but I'm sure people are sick of this debate in this here NHL DRAFT thread and after just finishing this exciting season.

You can put together a list of reasons for each team being able to make the playoffs 3 years after they bottomed out - fact is, they did it when you said we shouldn’t expect it. It happens all the time so why should we expect less from the Nucks?

Jimbo is going into his 6th offseason and 6th season coming up. We should expect nothing less than playoffs this coming year and turning into a contender after that. It’s possible, just requires some more moves and hopefully Jimbo is up to the task.