2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

[DonCherry4PM]

Is Benning the first GM in hockey who doesn’t trade pending UFA’s with NTCs at the deadline?

Perhaps the first to be hailed as a "Genius" while not managing to do so.

[Ronning's Ghost]

Fucking Benning-bashers...

Pointing out that Benning had more options that people usually ascribe to him isn't "bashing"; it is, if anything, "excuse dismissal".

But if you believe that the rebuild is going brilliantly, and has been since Benning took the reins, then you don't think he needs any excuses, do you?

Well I know for a fact that Edler does not want to play for anyone but the Canucks...

Is Benning the first GM in hockey who doesn’t trade pending UFA’s with NTCs at the deadline?

I am beginning to feel some sympathy with Blob's frustration at your reading comprehension skills. Maybe try re-reading Hockey Widow's post -- as I said, she explained it better.

You're a pretty insightful poster when you're sober. Have you considered a breathalyzer lock for your CC login ?

[Hockey Widow]

Fucking Benning-bashers...

Pointing out that Benning had more options that people usually ascribe to him isn't "bashing"; it is, if anything, "excuse dismissal".

But if you believe that the rebuild is going brilliantly, and has been since Benning took the reins, then you don't think he needs any excuses, do you?

Well I know for a fact that Edler does not want to play for anyone but the Canucks...

Is Benning the first GM in hockey who doesn’t trade pending UFA’s with NTCs at the deadline?

I am beginning to feel some sympathy with Blob's frustration at your reading comprehension skills. Maybe try re-reading Hockey Widow's post -- as I said, she explained it better.

You're a pretty insightful poster when you're sober. Have you considered a breathalyzer lock for your CC login ?

Nice to quote me but don't forget the part that said I agreed with him not strong arming any of those other players. Yes Benning had a choice, I don't see anyone disputing that. But his choices were extremely limited, which is the part you forget.

Kesler, waived to 1-2 teams, depending upon who tells the story.In the end only one team. Benning got what he could.

Hamhuis injured, came back and refused to waive until about a week before the TDD. Then only 1-2 teams. In the end Dallas tried to get one over on Benning and Benning decided that having Hamhuis finish out the year with the Canucks Brough more value than a 4th round pick.

Bieksa, agreed to waive for a handful of teams but only if they agreed to a two year extension.

Burrows agreed to waive but only to a team that agreed to a 2 year extension.

Hansen gave a list.

Edler refused to waive.

I'm not sure how much more Benning could have gotten done in those above mentioned. Who else should he have strong armed in your opinion? Like really who did he refuse to trade or refuse to push out the door? Higgins? He tried for 1.5 years to trade him, no takers. Prust? No takers. Vrbata? He provided a list as required but no takers.

I'm confused by who you think he wasted an opportunity to move.

[Ronning's Ghost]

Nice to quote me but don't forget the part that said I agreed with him not strong arming any of those other players. Yes Benning had a choice, I don't see anyone disputing that. But his choices were extremely limited, which is the part you forget.

Kesler, waived to 1-2 teams, depending upon who tells the story.In the end only one team. Benning got what he could.

Hamhuis injured, came back and refused to waive until about a week before the TDD. Then only 1-2 teams. In the end Dallas tried to get one over on Benning and Benning decided that having Hamhuis finish out the year with the Canucks Brough more value than a 4th round pick.

Bieksa, agreed to waive for a handful of teams but only if they agreed to a two year extension.

Burrows agreed to waive but only to a team that agreed to a 2 year extension.

Hansen gave a list.

Edler refused to waive.

I'm not sure how much more Benning could have gotten done in those above mentioned. Who else should he have strong armed in your opinion? Like really who did he refuse to trade or refuse to push out the door? Higgins? He tried for 1.5 years to trade him, no takers. Prust? No takers. Vrbata? He provided a list as required but no takers.

I'm confused by who you think he wasted an opportunity to move.

I'm not sure what search terms would be sufficiently limiting to return useful results on a deep dive in the archive, but it seems to me I've frequently heard that the reason Benning could not be more aggressive at the start of the re-build was that there were so many NTCs and NMCs on the roster. I was not, at the start of this discussion, necessarily advocating that he should have strong armed anyone in particular, only asserting that the fact that he did it once means that it was at least possible. He therefore had, as you say, a choice, however constrained those choices may have been.

But since you asked:

- he had to move Kesler anyway. As you so well described, Benning could have held out for better terms, and indeed considered doing so. He made a strategic decision not to, because he didn't want to sacrifice the 2014-2015 season. I submit that it would have been better to sacrifice the season for a better return.

- he traded Bieksa anyway. If he had done it earlier, he might have gotten more.

- ditto for Burrows and Hansen

- if he'd started leaning on Hamhuis earlier, he might have been able to get an acceptable return.

- there would also have more likely been takers for Vrbata the season before (and really, that should have been the premise for attracting free agents all along: sign for a year, we'll put you with the Sedins to pump your stats, trade you to a contender, and you can use this year's performance to negotiate a fatter contract with your new team next year.)

- Prust, remember, was the asset formerly represented by Kassian. I understand the need to get Kassian out of there, but trading for an older player meant depreciating the asset.

- and of course, Tanev never had any movement protection at all, and could have been moved any time Benning felt like it without any pressure exerted

Basically, my thesis since Benning arrived has been the same: it would have been better to go into full re-build mode earlier. This is, admittedly, an untestable hypothetical. It may have been better, it may have been a disaster. We'll never know for sure.

At the point where a full rebuild was clearly the plan, I'm not even sure how much strong-arming would have been necessary. ("Gentlemen, Kes is being a prick about it, but he's basically right: we need a rebuild here, and it won't be a fun process for veterans. Wouldn't you rather play someplace where you can win, and have a shot at a championship?") That doesn't move Edler or the Sedins, of course, because Swedish players operate differently that way, but I think it could have been at least an effective overture to the pressure to waive process.

But that's also still hypothetical. What we do know is what Benning did, and what the results have been. If you are happy with the results, then none of his strategic choices need defending.

[Hockey Widow]

Ya I'm happy with the results. I wait to be made happier though.

Benning did what he said he'd do. He drafted and waited patiently for the kids to develop. We are starting to see those results and they are good results. As much as this season had suckage, and it did have suckage, it was also fun and exciting at times. I truly believe that no matter who the GM was we would have ended up in basically the same place. We would have Taychook instead of Juolevi. Who knows who we would have instead of Pettersson, maybe Glass. Who knows who we would have instead of Hughes or Boeser or Demko.

My point, the team was broken, old, on the downside and as our beloved Torts said, stale. No matter who the GM was they would have had to rebuild, re-tool, transition. No matter who the GM was it would have been painful. Re-builds take about 5 years. Next year must be a playoff year though.

I and others have said this before, the biggest obstacle to our rebuild, re-tool, transition, was year one under Benning and that damn 101 point season. It gave the water-boy a false sense that we just needed to tinker. But ya, overall I'm happy with Benning"s work to date. That doesn't mean I see him as a genius or that he has been perfect. But if you look at his entire body of work and not differing areas in isolation I think he has done a fine job.

[Mickey107]

JB's drafting has been better than we've seen here in many years, maybe ever.
Linden was a legit good pick.
Bure was a wee bit of trickery. Pat Quinn had some genius himself, particularly in trading.
Burke wins one giant prize.
But Bening and his scouting staff are being a little more creative and ya, maybe thorough would be an appropriate word.
I'm not at odds with how Garrison was treated. Plain and simple was totally under performing.

I do not, however agree with the way the Kesler or Hamhuis situations unfolded.
In Kesler's case, I would have forced an eight team list from him or just let him sit and rot or let him play, till the contract was officially over.
Regardless of any cancer in the room shit which would have only hurt himself anyways.
By the way; I liked Kesler. At one point, my vote went for him as captain over Henrick.

I really hated the "All my Children", soap opera the Hamhuis garbage turned into. Was way too public. Everyone looked bad.
The Canucks lost. Benning didn't handle that one well; I think mainly because he thought it would be easy.
Little Danny boy crying the blues on the radio, at least twice; My family, my family, it's so hard on them.
That made me sick. Buck-up "BOY", your a professional athlete making millions of dollars, moving, maybe multiple times, is part
of it sometimes.
Bet the PA loves him, (insert puking smiley).

[Meds]

JB's drafting has been better than we've seen here in many years, maybe ever.
Linden was a legit good pick.
Bure was a wee bit of trickery. Pat Quinn had some genius himself, particularly in trading.
Burke wins one giant prize.
But Bening and his scouting staff are being a little more creative and ya, maybe thorough would be an appropriate word.
I'm not at odds with how Garrison was treated. Plain and simple was totally under performing.

I do not, however agree with the way the Kesler or Hamhuis situations unfolded.
In Kesler's case, I would have forced an eight team list from him or just let him sit and rot or let him play, till the contract was officially over.
Regardless of any cancer in the room shit which would have only hurt himself anyways.
By the way; I liked Kesler. At one point, my vote went for him as captain over Henrick.

I really hated the "All my Children", soap opera the Hamhuis garbage turned into. Was way too public. Everyone looked bad.
The Canucks lost. Benning didn't handle that one well; I think mainly because he thought it would be easy.
Little Danny boy crying the blues on the radio, at least twice; My family, my family, it's so hard on them.
That made me sick. Buck-up "BOY", your a professional athlete making millions of dollars, moving, maybe multiple times, is part
of it sometimes.
Bet the PA loves him, (insert puking smiley).

You need to stop posting half in the bag.

He couldn't force an 8 team list from Kesler. He couldn't force anything. Kesler wanted out and, thanks to Gillis, he held all the cards. Sitting your number 2 center, or forcing him to play when the rest of the team knows he wants out, that's not how you start your first day on the job as a GM with a new team.....especially your first time as GM. He did what he could. He tried to convince Kesler to stick around, but Kes was having none of it. Your method is ridiculous and would have resulted in nobody wanting to play here.

The Hamhuis crap was useless. Hamhuis getting hurt when he did sure didn't help. But Dan had his NTC and he wasn't waiving it for more than a couple of teams.....who turned out to be tendering insultingly low-ball offers. Hamhuis turned out not to be much of a "team" guy in the sense of doing what was best, and he definitely showed himself as someone who is afraid of short-term upheaval for long-term stability as the rumor was that a new offer was in the cards with Vancouver as an UFA only a few short months later. Apparently making millions of dollars to play a game makes him too good to do what a large percentage of the Canadian natural resources workforce does on a regular basis.....spend over half the year away from their families for a pittance of the income that ole Dan gets.

But yeah. You're right Mick.....Benning mismanaged this 6 ways from Sunday.

This time of year, and particularly on the subject of previous trades and moves by Benning, you take the crown for being the most obtuse poster we've got around here. Go back to HFBoards if you're gonna be that childish.

[Mickey107]

You need to stop posting half in the bag.

He couldn't force an 8 team list from Kesler. He couldn't force anything. Kesler wanted out and, thanks to Gillis, he held all the cards. Sitting your number 2 center, or forcing him to play when the rest of the team knows he wants out, that's not how you start your first day on the job as a GM with a new team.....especially your first time as GM. He did what he could. He tried to convince Kesler to stick around, but Kes was having none of it. Your method is ridiculous and would have resulted in nobody wanting to play here.

The Hamhuis crap was useless. Hamhuis getting hurt when he did sure didn't help. But Dan had his NTC and he wasn't waiving it for more than a couple of teams.....who turned out to be tendering insultingly low-ball offers. Hamhuis turned out not to be much of a "team" guy in the sense of doing what was best, and he definitely showed himself as someone who is afraid of short-term upheaval for long-term stability as the rumor was that a new offer was in the cards with Vancouver as an UFA only a few short months later. Apparently making millions of dollars to play a game makes him too good to do what a large percentage of the Canadian natural resources workforce does on a regular basis.....spend over half the year away from their families for a pittance of the income that ole Dan gets.

But yeah. You're right Mick.....Benning mismanaged this 6 ways from Sunday.

This time of year, and particularly on the subject of previous trades and moves by Benning, you take the crown for being the most obtuse poster we've got around here. Go back to HFBoards if you're gonna be that childish.

What are you talking about? I'm a Benning supporter! Not an HF goon who want him gone.
It's absolute bullshit that other players and their agents think that a strong willed organization is something to stay away from.
Probably more the opposite.
WTF is 6 ways from Sunday? No clue.
DO you think a person has to be all in or all out and say perfect all the time or horrid all the time. Is that what you think a hockey forum is?
Now that truely is childish....

Kesler would have backed off and been profesional the next year. Believe it.
I'm not bashing JB.
Keep it to coffee in the morning.

[Ronning's Ghost]

Ya I'm happy with the results...Next year must be a playoff year though.

Absolutely, the proof of the pudding is in the playoffs. Are you content with the rebuild progress if the Canucks just make the playoffs next year, or is there some specific level of performance you will be looking for once they get there to assure you that the rebuild is on track?

[ESQ]

- he had to move Kesler anyway. As you so well described, Benning could have held out for better terms, and indeed considered doing so. He made a strategic decision not to, because he didn't want to sacrifice the 2014-2015 season. I submit that it would have been better to sacrifice the season for a better return.

- he traded Bieksa anyway. If he had done it earlier, he might have gotten more.

- ditto for Burrows and Hansen

- if he'd started leaning on Hamhuis earlier, he might have been able to get an acceptable return.

- there would also have more likely been takers for Vrbata the season before (and really, that should have been the premise for attracting free agents all along: sign for a year, we'll put you with the Sedins to pump your stats, trade you to a contender, and you can use this year's performance to negotiate a fatter contract with your new team next year.)

Oh, okay.

I'm just gonna put this out there, poster RG is smarter than any GM in the league, GMs in the NHL are all idiots and RG would be way better than Benning as GM.

I mean, he could have held out and gotten a better return on Kesler? Why didn't Benning think of that?!?! He could've gotten more for Bieksa?! Well what the heck Jim???!?

I'm glad to finally have my eyes opened to the truth - Benning should have got more on all of his trades. What a turkey.

[SKYO]

Kirby DACH showing some flash and pizzazz in the playoffs, dude might got the elite skills after all.
*I think that was the GWG as well.

[Hockey Widow]

Ya I'm happy with the results...Next year must be a playoff year though.

Absolutely, the proof of the pudding is in the playoffs. Are you content with the rebuild progress if the Canucks just make the playoffs next year, or is there some specific level of performance you will be looking for once they get there to assure you that the rebuild is on track?

Well the ultimate goal is a Cup of course. Yes, making the playoffs is mission one and makes it a successful season in my eyes.

Regardless the rebuild is right on track. That doesn’t there isn’t more to be done. Any team not winning the Cup has to keep improving.

If they make the playoffs I will be ok with that. Of course I want them to go deep and will be disappointed if we are out in four. Anything past round one will be a huge success, but again I’ll be disappointed if they get bounced in round two. Rinse repeat.

So I’m already convinced the rebuild is on track and don’t need confirmation or assurances of that. That doesn’t mean I don’t see areas we need to improve in. I understand we still need upgrades, move some players out. In other words we need more of what Benning has been doing for five years.

[Mickey107]

You need to stop posting half in the bag.

"JB's drafting has been better than we've seen here in many years, maybe ever."

"I do not, however agree with the way the Kesler or Hamhuis situations unfolded."

First line speaks for itself
In the second line you see the word "unfolded". That doesn't mean I'' blaming the GM.

[Mickey107]

Kirby DACH showing some flash and pizzazz in the playoffs, dude might got the elite skills after all.
*I think that was the GWG as well.

Kirby Dach is who I was leaning towards last november. Although he dropped in some of the rankings for a while,
he's gaining again now and might be out of reach if we are, ho hum, ninth.

[Diehard1]

. It’s his biggest downfall as a GM IMHO, his lack of creativity in understanding how to build a team.

Yet here we are...a stable full of up and coming stars with plenty more developing in the wings.

Thats pretty well the textbook definition of a rebuilding team dude.

Bitches gunna bitch bro...

And no one mentions that the owners tweeted in 15 parts, finally using the words "Rebuild" and "Patience". The same sentiment that Linden finally uttered and got him canned.

Seems to me when this regime started, they were verboten to use these terms (Shhh, don't mention the war!)

So JB basically had to work under these constraints while building a new prospect pool from scratch. If he had any previous NHL-ready prospects, I'm sure he would've kept some of the picks instead.

I mean, if the owner wanted to continue pushing for more revenue, does it make much sense to hopefully wait for picks that might or might not turn out in 3-4 years? The owner had great loyalty to the 2011 team like the Sedins, Edler, etc. How many Chaputs and Megnas could you dredge up to support the previous core? Really.

Man, are people still not happy at where this team is at right now?

Is this a serious question? 5 straight seasons with no playoffs and we are supposed to be happy? I think most are fine with where the development arc is going for the young guys, but there are a number of other issues that seem to be glossed over again and again. I'm amazed how much support there is for a management team that has the worst overall record in Canucks history - a history that is pretty damn terrible, so that's saying a lot.

I don't mind a number of things they've done, but the unwavering support is just bizarre.