Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 18-19 Sponsored by SKYO

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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 18-19 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by SKYO »

Tciso wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:00 am No way in hell the Cancucks take Lucic.
According to your insider sources?

Tciso wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:00 am And if we did a Loui for Looch swap, it would be the Oilers who have to sweeten the pot. Lucic fell off the cliff last year, and I don't see a way back.
Yeah just for the extra year they'd toss in a 3rd or something, nothing too spectacular.
Tciso wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:00 am Loui is still at least effective in his defense, and throws in 30 points. )
We have a zillion two-way types, sutter, beags, horvat, gaudette &
Roussel and Granlund can do what Eriksson does at a much cheaper cost, while Roussel adds many more intangibles.


And to further add.

LUCIC over 3 seasons has scored 104pts, avg 35pts per. (all Oilers)

ERIKSSON over 3 seasons has scored 76pts, avg 25pts per. (all Canucks)


Tciso wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:00 am Given that Loui's contract is easier to buy out, I see no reason to take Looch, especially since the Canucks really don't want either of these players (like many predicted 3 years ago....)
You don't want to buy out LE's contract & what save $400K ish for the next 3 years? cap hit is still 5.5M per according to capfriendly. And the Canucks were heavily interested in lucic 3 yrs ago.
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Post by Madcombinepilot »

SKYO wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:04 pm
Tciso wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:00 am No way in hell the Cancucks take Lucic.
According to your insider sources?

Tciso wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:00 am And if we did a Loui for Looch swap, it would be the Oilers who have to sweeten the pot. Lucic fell off the cliff last year, and I don't see a way back.
Yeah just for the extra year they'd toss in a 3rd or something, nothing too spectacular.
Tciso wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:00 am Loui is still at least effective in his defense, and throws in 30 points. )
We have a zillion two-way types, sutter, beags, horvat, gaudette &
Roussel and Granlund can do what Eriksson does at a much cheaper cost, while Roussel adds many more intangibles.


And to further add.

LUCIC over 3 seasons has scored 104pts, avg 35pts per. (all Oilers)

ERIKSSON over 3 seasons has scored 76pts, avg 25pts per. (all Canucks)


Tciso wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:00 am Given that Loui's contract is easier to buy out, I see no reason to take Looch, especially since the Canucks really don't want either of these players (like many predicted 3 years ago....)
You don't want to buy out LE's contract & what save $400K ish for the next 3 years? cap hit is still 5.5M per according to capfriendly. And the Canucks were heavily interested in lucic 3 yrs ago.
... don't confuse insider sources with common sense.

looch also has to be protected during expansion. Why would Benning do that for a 'non spectacular' 3rd round pick??

'Interested' in a player 3 years ago, and interested now are different things. No need for us to take on the oilers mistakes.

Lucic on the 4th line gives us a 4th line worth at least 11 million dollars because looch does nothing to add to the top 9 we already have.
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 18-19 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by SKYO »

Madcombinepilot wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:39 pm
SKYO wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:04 pm
LUCIC over 3 seasons has scored 104pts, avg 35pts per. (all Oilers)

ERIKSSON over 3 seasons has scored 76pts, avg 25pts per. (all Canucks)

And the Canucks were heavily interested in lucic 3 yrs ago.
... don't confuse insider sources with common sense.

looch also has to be protected during expansion. Why would Benning do that for a 'non spectacular' 3rd round pick??

'Interested' in a player 3 years ago, and interested now are different things. No need for us to take on the oilers mistakes.

Lucic on the 4th line gives us a 4th line worth at least 11 million dollars because looch does nothing to add to the top 9 we already have.
They've been discussing this recently.
According to Pierre LeBrun and Darren Dreger, the #Canucks are 'interested' in Milan Lucic.

New Oilers coach knows Loui Eriksson with Dallas. Potential swap could make sense. EDM would likely need to add in a sweetener.
https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/n ... ilan-lucic
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Post by Mickey107 »

I didn't write this but I see some think it's true. Trying to find out who did say it.

TWITTER/MEDIA
If Lucic *is* traded to the #Canucks, he would have to waive his NMC to do so. At which time, the Canucks can opt to not honour that NMC going forward and thus not forced to protect him in the expansion draft (see PK Subban to NSH as precedent)
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Post by Madcombinepilot »

Who is "They"?!?

Until Benning or Holland or a players agent confirms this, it's all hearsay spun up by the media who is fucking bored this summer.. and silly hearsay at that.

And if Benning takes on that contract without a significant asset added and Lucic's NMC voided, he should be joining chiarelli in short notice.
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Post by 2Fingers »

Madcombinepilot wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:00 pm Who is "They"?!?

Until Benning or Holland or a players agent confirms this, it's all hearsay spun up by the media who is fucking bored this summer.. and silly hearsay at that.

And if Benning takes on that contract without a significant asset added and Lucic's NMC voided, he should be joining chiarelli in short notice.
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Post by Meds »

Madcombinepilot wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:00 pm Who is "They"?!?

Until Benning or Holland or a players agent confirms this, it's all hearsay spun up by the media who is fucking bored this summer.. and silly hearsay at that.

And if Benning takes on that contract without a significant reasonable asset added and Lucic's NMC voided, he should be joining chiarelli in short notice.
Yep.
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Post by Strangelove »

micky107 wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:58 pm I didn't write this but I see some think it's true. Trying to find out who did say it.

TWITTER/MEDIA
If Lucic *is* traded to the #Canucks, he would have to waive his NMC to do so. At which time, the Canucks can opt to not honour that NMC going forward and thus not forced to protect him in the expansion draft (see PK Subban to NSH as precedent)
Nope, that is not how it works!

Subban was traded before (2 days) his NMC was due to kick in.

Only if a player is traded before it kicks in does a team have the option to not honour it.

Players with NMCs get traded all the time (if they waive) and keep their NMCs with the new team.
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 18-19 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Tciso »

SKYO wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:04 pm
Tciso wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:00 am No way in hell the Cancucks take Lucic.
According to your insider sources?

Tciso wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:00 am And if we did a Loui for Looch swap, it would be the Oilers who have to sweeten the pot. Lucic fell off the cliff last year, and I don't see a way back.
Yeah just for the extra year they'd toss in a 3rd or something, nothing too spectacular.
Tciso wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:00 am Loui is still at least effective in his defense, and throws in 30 points. )
We have a zillion two-way types, sutter, beags, horvat, gaudette &
Roussel and Granlund can do what Eriksson does at a much cheaper cost, while Roussel adds many more intangibles.


And to further add.

LUCIC over 3 seasons has scored 104pts, avg 35pts per. (all Oilers)

ERIKSSON over 3 seasons has scored 76pts, avg 25pts per. (all Canucks)


Tciso wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:00 am Given that Loui's contract is easier to buy out, I see no reason to take Looch, especially since the Canucks really don't want either of these players (like many predicted 3 years ago....)
You don't want to buy out LE's contract & what save $400K ish for the next 3 years? cap hit is still 5.5M per according to capfriendly. And the Canucks were heavily interested in lucic 3 yrs ago.
The only year that counts is 2021, when Hughes and the Alien need new contracts. Loui is only $4mil on buy-out at that point. Sucks, but still an option if we need that last few pennies. Look, they both suck, but Looch is not worth an extra year of cap hell for whatever slight improvement he might be over Loui.
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Post by SKYO »

Tciso wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:11 pm The only year that counts is 2021, when Hughes and the Alien need new contracts. Loui is only $4mil on buy-out at that point. Sucks, but still an option if we need that last few pennies. Look, they both suck, but Looch is not worth an extra year of cap hell for whatever slight improvement he might be over Loui.
2021/22 this team barely has anyone under contract.

Lucic and Horvat will have 2 yrs left.

Beags/Roussel last year on contracts perfect TDD trade bait.

And that's it lol for right now until Boeser signs his 6+ yr contract.

& to quote D. Wagner:
Neither player brings much offence at this point in their careers, but they’re about equally valuable, just in different ways. Where Eriksson provides a positive impact on the penalty kill, Lucic brings positive puck possession at 5-on-5 in a bottom-six role.

Perhaps those different roles make the two players a little more desirable to the opposing team. The Oilers had the second-worst penalty kill in the NHL last season, while the Canucks were one of the worst puck possession teams in the league, so there’s potentially a fit.

And both teams could possibly believe that new surroundings would help each player rekindle their offence.
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Post by Hockey Widow »

Strangelove wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:59 pm
micky107 wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:58 pm I didn't write this but I see some think it's true. Trying to find out who did say it.

TWITTER/MEDIA
If Lucic *is* traded to the #Canucks, he would have to waive his NMC to do so. At which time, the Canucks can opt to not honour that NMC going forward and thus not forced to protect him in the expansion draft (see PK Subban to NSH as precedent)
Nope, that is not how it works!

Subban was traded before (2 days) his NMC was due to kick in.

Only if a player is traded before it kicks in does a team have the option to not honour it.

Players with NMCs get traded all the time (if they waive) and keep their NMCs with the new team.
Actually how it works is a player needs to waive his NMC to get traded. The new team has the option to pick up the NMC or not. Thus a player can refuse to waive to make the trade happen if the acquiring team refuses to pick up the NMC. Which is usually what happens. So in this case, if I were Benning I’d make it clear they would only take Lucic if there was no NMC. The question then becomes does Lucic go for it.

In Subban’s case his trade protection hadn’t kicked in so he had no say in it. But in Lucic’s case he does.

What I’m not clear on is can they renegotiate the trade protection, ie turn it into a modified NMC or NTC.

Honestly, trade Ericksson to another team for whatever you can get, a 7th round pick, no retention, which should be possible after July 1st. Then trade for Lucic in a separate stand alone deal, getting Edmonton to retain 1.5-2 M, plus a sweetener for taking him on. This helps Edmonton get cap relief which is one of their issues and gets Lucic here on a more palatable cap.

A swap only helps Edmonton.

Edit:

Stole this from somewhere:

“This requires that the acquiring team sign an addendum to the contract ensuring that the clause does in fact travel with the player (written by the player's agent)

If the acquiring team refuses to sign the addendum, and the player waives his clause anyway, at that point the clause may be nullified

If the player is traded before the clause takes effect, the acquiring team can opt to void the clause
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Post by Strangelove »

Hockey Widow wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:38 pm
Strangelove wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:59 pm
micky107 wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:58 pm I didn't write this but I see some think it's true. Trying to find out who did say it.

TWITTER/MEDIA
If Lucic *is* traded to the #Canucks, he would have to waive his NMC to do so. At which time, the Canucks can opt to not honour that NMC going forward and thus not forced to protect him in the expansion draft (see PK Subban to NSH as precedent)
Nope, that is not how it works!

Subban was traded before (2 days) his NMC was due to kick in.

Only if a player is traded before it kicks in does a team have the option to not honour it.

Players with NMCs get traded all the time (if they waive) and keep their NMCs with the new team.
Actually how it works is a player needs to waive his NMC to get traded. The new team has the option to pick up the NMC or not. Thus a player can refuse to waive to make the trade happen if the acquiring team refuses to pick up the NMC. Which is usually what happens. So in this case, if I were Benning I’d make it clear they would only take Lucic if there was no NMC. The question then becomes does Lucic go for it.

In Subban’s case his trade protection hadn’t kicked in so he had no say in it. But in Lucic’s case he does.
Right, it's up to Lucic, not up to the Canucks.

(nothing like the so-called "Subban precedent" in Micky's quote above)

Pretty sure no NHL player with an active NMC has ever been traded and didn't take his NMC with him.

Hockey Widow wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:38 pm What I’m not clear on is can they renegotiate the trade protection, ie turn it into a modified NMC or NTC.
Hmmmm I dunno about that, but I've wondered if, at the time of the trade

... Lucic could be asked to waive the NMC for the trade AND the future expansion draft.

Hockey Widow wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:38 pm Honestly, trade Ericksson to another team for whatever you can get, a 7th round pick, no retention, which should be possible after July 1st. Then trade for Lucic in a separate stand alone deal, getting Edmonton to retain 1.5-2 M, plus a sweetener for taking him on. This helps Edmonton get cap relief which is one of their issues and gets Lucic here on a more palatable cap.
I've said before I'd rather trade Eriksson somewhere else and forget about Lucic altogether.

Hockey Widow wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:38 pm Stole this from somewhere:

“This requires that the acquiring team sign an addendum to the contract ensuring that the clause does in fact travel with the player (written by the player's agent)

If the acquiring team refuses to sign the addendum, and the player waives his clause anyway, at that point the clause may be nullified

If the player is traded before the clause takes effect, the acquiring team can opt to void the clause
I think that's part of a quote that originated from here:

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/207650
What is a No-Move Clause (NMC)? A No-Move Clause (NMC) can be added to a player's contract in the years after they are eligible for Group 3 Unrestricted Free Agency (7 Accrued seasons or 27 years of age), and has the following properties: Player cannot be traded without his consent (however, the clause can specify a modified no-trade clause that limits the NTC to a certain number of teams) Player cannot be placed on waivers without his consent Player cannot be assigned to the minors without his consent Player is not exempt from a buyout or contract termination The clause can travel with the player even if he consents to being traded or is claimed on waivers This requires that the acquiring team sign an addendum to the contract ensuring that the clause does in fact travel with the player (written by the player's agent) If the acquiring team refuses to sign the addendum, and the player waives his clause anyway, at that point the clause may be nullified If the player is traded before the clause takes effect, the acquiring team can opt to void the clause

Anyway, I can't see a player ever agree to permanently erase his NMC...
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Post by SKYO »

I mean really who do we have to protect up front?

petey/boeser/horvat/gaudette/madden?/jv?/looch?

even looch could waive his nmc for the exp draft to protect another forward.

The way I see we got 4 options for Eriksson:

Keep Eriksson (booooo)
Move for Lucic (I can dig it)
Move Eriksson + Virtanen (no retention) for a 2nd + 3rd.
Move Eriksson + Gaudette (30% retention $1.8M cap hit for us) for a 2nd + 3rd.
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Post by Cousin Strawberry »

Why not unload eriksson, keep virtanen and gaudette and retain a small portion as incentive for his new team? Why swap a bad contract for a worse one just to squeeze 3 extra fights a year out of that cap hit?
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Post by Blob Mckenzie »

They have another option you didn’t mention SKYO; They can waive Eriksson in the fall. I can’t see him too jazzed about riding the buses and living in Utica for one year let alone three.
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