Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 18-19 Sponsored by SKYO

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Diehard1
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 18-19 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Diehard1 »

Richardstroker69 wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:00 pm
Carlyee wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:11 am
Richardstroker69 wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:41 am
ESQ wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:26 am
Carlyee wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:40 am

100% wins the internet today. Not giving shutter away would be “dumb”. Keeping Sutter would be idiotic, since Gaudette is younger and cheaper.
Well, is Sutter a better winger than any other bottom-6 (except Roussel, who played a top-6 role), plus with Gaudette this season, Bo still had to take more faceoffs than anyone in the league.

If Sutter's cap hit was an issue for this upcoming season, then sure it would be idiotic to keep him. But it's not.

There's zero chance Gaudette gets sent to the farm because of Sutter, and Benning has already confirmed that.

So I don't see the need to sell-low. His value will never be any lower, a 15-goal, 500 FOW with only 2 years will at least make him worth a 3rd. But there's no way his value goes down from what it currently is.
Thank you! And if there was a better option for that cap space for sure explore it, but the guy can play wing and is a really good bottom 6 player pker (if he can return to form). People need to stop with the either Sutter or Gaudette, there’s room for both on the roster.
1. He has never played wing.
2. He has never scored more than 40 points in a season. I can admit as a third liner this is probably ok.
3. His only good season in Vancouver he had 34 points but was -20.
4. He is a bandaid.
5. His trade value will not increase. He is what he is.
6. Other than winning face offs and occasionally creating turnovers he actually makes line-mates worse. Watch him. Having never played the wing combined with his lack of finish and playmaking ability will hurt Gaudette specifically stats wise
7. He has lost a step and is currently too slow to play on the third line.
8. He is too soft and expensive to play on the 4th line.
9. Just about anyone can kill penalties with the right system drilled into their heads. No need for Sutter.
There is a lot of misinformation in this, he was glued to the sedins as a winger for quite awhile in his first year. He has a good shot so playing wing is a decent option. A fourth line of Sutter and beagle gives the team a very good defensive shutdown line to go along with Horvat’s and most likely won’t be a “fourth” line when it comes to minutes played. Now if he Can’t recover his skating and his injuries are too much fine get rid of him but a year ago his skating was fine and had a great season.
That's a 4th line that will maybe score 15 goals a season between them, and will be paid at least $8 million even if the 3rd member is a minimum salary guy. That doesn't fit into the cap structure of this or any other team.

Boston's 4th line is paid under $3.25 million.
Tbay's 4th line is paid $2.8 million.
Toronto's 4th line is paid $3.8 million.
Colorado's 4th line is paid $3.9 milion.
Calgary's 4th line is paid $4.8 million.
SJ's 4th line is paid $4.55 million.
Vegas' 4th line is paid $4.7 million.

Sutter alone makes more than most of those full lines - it's hard to be a good team and have overpaid grinders. It does happen from time to time, but mostly because those players used to be good and are still on the roster while being paid for what they did years before.

If a 'great' season for Sutter is 11 goals and 26 points for $4.375 million a season that's sad - that's almost second line money for barely 3rd line performance. Sutter just isn't needed, trade him and move on, let Gaudette take over the 3rd line as he should.
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 18-19 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Diehard1 »

SKYO wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:33 pm Yes I know everyone wants to trade eriksson,sutter etc but those will be difficult.

So the type of 'hockey deals' Benning should try to emulate is:

hamilton, ferland, fox
for
hanifin, lindholm


galchenyuk for domi

rask for niederreiter

schenn, simmonds for m richards

& try to get either an in-prime top 6 scorer or a top 4 D right shot QB..

Our trade chips that have value (younger, good contracts, have upside & have some proven NHL experience):

Hutton, Virtanen, Stecher and Gaudette.
No question trading Sutter will be hard, Jimbo overpaid him both in dollar value and term, so it makes it harder to move him. Loui I just don't see being able to move unless you tie him to another contract.

As for the 4 you mentioned, I'm fine with trading any or all of them if it makes the team better.
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 18-19 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Strangelove »

Lol, ole Diehard is on a mission!

The only reason Sutter would be difficult to trade at this point is because he's been plagued with injuries of late.

He's an elite defensive forward who excels at killing penalties.

A 17 minute plus forward whose salary Diehard compares to 7 minute forwards around the league...
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 18-19 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Richardstroker69 »

Diehard1 wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:38 pm
Richardstroker69 wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:00 pm
Carlyee wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:11 am
Richardstroker69 wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:41 am
ESQ wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:26 am
Carlyee wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:40 am

100% wins the internet today. Not giving shutter away would be “dumb”. Keeping Sutter would be idiotic, since Gaudette is younger and cheaper.
Well, is Sutter a better winger than any other bottom-6 (except Roussel, who played a top-6 role), plus with Gaudette this season, Bo still had to take more faceoffs than anyone in the league.

If Sutter's cap hit was an issue for this upcoming season, then sure it would be idiotic to keep him. But it's not.

There's zero chance Gaudette gets sent to the farm because of Sutter, and Benning has already confirmed that.

So I don't see the need to sell-low. His value will never be any lower, a 15-goal, 500 FOW with only 2 years will at least make him worth a 3rd. But there's no way his value goes down from what it currently is.
Thank you! And if there was a better option for that cap space for sure explore it, but the guy can play wing and is a really good bottom 6 player pker (if he can return to form). People need to stop with the either Sutter or Gaudette, there’s room for both on the roster.
1. He has never played wing.
2. He has never scored more than 40 points in a season. I can admit as a third liner this is probably ok.
3. His only good season in Vancouver he had 34 points but was -20.
4. He is a bandaid.
5. His trade value will not increase. He is what he is.
6. Other than winning face offs and occasionally creating turnovers he actually makes line-mates worse. Watch him. Having never played the wing combined with his lack of finish and playmaking ability will hurt Gaudette specifically stats wise
7. He has lost a step and is currently too slow to play on the third line.
8. He is too soft and expensive to play on the 4th line.
9. Just about anyone can kill penalties with the right system drilled into their heads. No need for Sutter.
There is a lot of misinformation in this, he was glued to the sedins as a winger for quite awhile in his first year. He has a good shot so playing wing is a decent option. A fourth line of Sutter and beagle gives the team a very good defensive shutdown line to go along with Horvat’s and most likely won’t be a “fourth” line when it comes to minutes played. Now if he Can’t recover his skating and his injuries are too much fine get rid of him but a year ago his skating was fine and had a great season.
That's a 4th line that will maybe score 15 goals a season between them, and will be paid at least $8 million even if the 3rd member is a minimum salary guy. That doesn't fit into the cap structure of this or any other team.

Boston's 4th line is paid under $3.25 million.
Tbay's 4th line is paid $2.8 million.
Toronto's 4th line is paid $3.8 million.
Colorado's 4th line is paid $3.9 milion.
Calgary's 4th line is paid $4.8 million.
SJ's 4th line is paid $4.55 million.
Vegas' 4th line is paid $4.7 million.

Sutter alone makes more than most of those full lines - it's hard to be a good team and have overpaid grinders. It does happen from time to time, but mostly because those players used to be good and are still on the roster while being paid for what they did years before.

If a 'great' season for Sutter is 11 goals and 26 points for $4.375 million a season that's sad - that's almost second line money for barely 3rd line performance. Sutter just isn't needed, trade him and move on, let Gaudette take over the 3rd line as he should.
Your comparing teams with their stars not on elc’s, that’s the difference. We don’t have that issue yet and when we do Sutter, beagle, and the other placeholders will be gone. Keeping Sutter around for another year does nothing but benefit the team, he can still contribute. Also quit bringing up Gaudette, Sutter can play wing he doesn’t need to be a center, keeping Sutter doesn’t mean we can’t play Gaudette. Also keeping Sutter gives us flexibility to trade guys like virtanen, Gaudette for an area of weakness like Defense.
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 18-19 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Island Nucklehead »

SKYO wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:33 pm Yes I know everyone wants to trade eriksson,sutter etc but those will be difficult.

So the type of 'hockey deals' Benning should try to emulate is:

hamilton, ferland, fox
for
hanifin, lindholm


galchenyuk for domi

rask for niederreiter

schenn, simmonds for m richards

& try to get either an in-prime top 6 scorer or a top 4 D right shot QB..

Our trade chips that have value (younger, good contracts, have upside & have some proven NHL experience):

Hutton, Virtanen, Stecher and Gaudette.
Save for maybe the Rask/Niedereiter deal, none of our guys have the same value as any of the key pieces listed above.
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 18-19 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by ESQ »

Carlyee wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:11 am 1. He has never played wing.
He has played wing several times, including with the Sedins.
4. He is a bandaid.
Yep, with 2 more years on his deal - ends the same time as Hughes ELC.
5. His trade value will not increase. He is what he is.

Agree to disagree - his value cannot be lower, ergo it has nowhere to go but up.
6. Other than winning face offs and occasionally creating turnovers he actually makes line-mates worse. Watch him. Having never played the wing combined with his lack of finish and playmaking ability will hurt Gaudette specifically stats wise
7. He has lost a step and is currently too slow to play on the third line.
8. He is too soft and expensive to play on the 4th line.
9. Just about anyone can kill penalties with the right system drilled into their heads. No need for Sutter.
Well, he doesn't belong on the power play, which is where most of the ire directed at him arises. But the pk was significantly more effective when he was in the lineup. Skyo had the stats, but the pk was night and day better when Sutter came back.
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 18-19 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

Sutter is garbage. Way overpaid and there isn’t a team in the league that would pay 4.35 million per to have that scrawny wet fart in its middle six. Vancouver is eating a minimum of 1.5 per to jettison this bum.

He’s here until his contract expires, Elmer takes a shitty deal back or they eat a substantial chunk. See Gagner, Sam.
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 18-19 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by SKYO »

Island Nucklehead wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:51 pm
SKYO wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:33 pm \Our trade chips that have value (younger, good contracts, have upside & have some proven NHL experience):

Hutton, Virtanen, Stecher and Gaudette.
Save for maybe the Rask/Niedereiter deal, none of our guys have the same value as any of the key pieces listed above.
Stecher is underrated, Ben Hutton got much better this season notably when Edler got injured he stepped up & started getting big minutes avg over 22min TOI & had a respectable 5g,15a,20pts season for the 6'2-207lbs LD.


Just looking at the LA Kings trade:

BSchenn drafted 2009 5th overall, only had 7 AHL games and 9 NHL games played with 2 points.

Simmonds drafted 2007 #61 overall, scoring 14g, 16 assists in 2010/11.

Both were swapped for a 26 year old Mike Richards, who just scored 66pts, who also just had a dominant 2010 playoffs in 23 games scoring 23 points, plus was the team captain and signed long-term.


I think Jake Virtanen is kinda similar to Simmonds in regards to being a bigger, swift RW, who just scored 15g, 10a.

And young center/winger Adam Gaudette just finished 56gp, 12pts in his rookie year.

Both of those guys packaged for a proven winger from a team looking to shed cap space or can't afford to pay up for a certain winger, might be able to make a move here.

Jake Virtanen + Adam Gaudette for ??

or Ben Hutton + a forward for ??

These are the type of moves - if done right - can really help your team, could be a win/win trade as well, as all these guys have upside and are ready to improve further.
Can the Canucks just win a Cup within the next 5 years.
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 18-19 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Blob Mckenzie wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:49 pm Sutter is garbage.
Blobs range
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 18-19 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

RoyalDude wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:17 pm
Blob Mckenzie wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:49 pm Sutter is garbage.
Blobs range
Dude’s drivel
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Diehard1
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 18-19 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Diehard1 »

Richardstroker69 wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:59 pm
Diehard1 wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:38 pm
Richardstroker69 wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:00 pm
Carlyee wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:11 am
Richardstroker69 wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:41 am
ESQ wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:26 am
Carlyee wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:40 am

100% wins the internet today. Not giving shutter away would be “dumb”. Keeping Sutter would be idiotic, since Gaudette is younger and cheaper.
Well, is Sutter a better winger than any other bottom-6 (except Roussel, who played a top-6 role), plus with Gaudette this season, Bo still had to take more faceoffs than anyone in the league.

If Sutter's cap hit was an issue for this upcoming season, then sure it would be idiotic to keep him. But it's not.

There's zero chance Gaudette gets sent to the farm because of Sutter, and Benning has already confirmed that.

So I don't see the need to sell-low. His value will never be any lower, a 15-goal, 500 FOW with only 2 years will at least make him worth a 3rd. But there's no way his value goes down from what it currently is.
Thank you! And if there was a better option for that cap space for sure explore it, but the guy can play wing and is a really good bottom 6 player pker (if he can return to form). People need to stop with the either Sutter or Gaudette, there’s room for both on the roster.
1. He has never played wing.
2. He has never scored more than 40 points in a season. I can admit as a third liner this is probably ok.
3. His only good season in Vancouver he had 34 points but was -20.
4. He is a bandaid.
5. His trade value will not increase. He is what he is.
6. Other than winning face offs and occasionally creating turnovers he actually makes line-mates worse. Watch him. Having never played the wing combined with his lack of finish and playmaking ability will hurt Gaudette specifically stats wise
7. He has lost a step and is currently too slow to play on the third line.
8. He is too soft and expensive to play on the 4th line.
9. Just about anyone can kill penalties with the right system drilled into their heads. No need for Sutter.
There is a lot of misinformation in this, he was glued to the sedins as a winger for quite awhile in his first year. He has a good shot so playing wing is a decent option. A fourth line of Sutter and beagle gives the team a very good defensive shutdown line to go along with Horvat’s and most likely won’t be a “fourth” line when it comes to minutes played. Now if he Can’t recover his skating and his injuries are too much fine get rid of him but a year ago his skating was fine and had a great season.
That's a 4th line that will maybe score 15 goals a season between them, and will be paid at least $8 million even if the 3rd member is a minimum salary guy. That doesn't fit into the cap structure of this or any other team.

Boston's 4th line is paid under $3.25 million.
Tbay's 4th line is paid $2.8 million.
Toronto's 4th line is paid $3.8 million.
Colorado's 4th line is paid $3.9 milion.
Calgary's 4th line is paid $4.8 million.
SJ's 4th line is paid $4.55 million.
Vegas' 4th line is paid $4.7 million.

Sutter alone makes more than most of those full lines - it's hard to be a good team and have overpaid grinders. It does happen from time to time, but mostly because those players used to be good and are still on the roster while being paid for what they did years before.

If a 'great' season for Sutter is 11 goals and 26 points for $4.375 million a season that's sad - that's almost second line money for barely 3rd line performance. Sutter just isn't needed, trade him and move on, let Gaudette take over the 3rd line as he should.
Your comparing teams with their stars not on elc’s, that’s the difference. We don’t have that issue yet and when we do Sutter, beagle, and the other placeholders will be gone. Keeping Sutter around for another year does nothing but benefit the team, he can still contribute. Also quit bringing up Gaudette, Sutter can play wing he doesn’t need to be a center, keeping Sutter doesn’t mean we can’t play Gaudette. Also keeping Sutter gives us flexibility to trade guys like virtanen, Gaudette for an area of weakness like Defense.
I’m comparing them with good teams, many of whom are still in the playoffs. I didn’t look to see if their stars were no longer on ELCs, just that they had to be good. The point is it’s very difficult to overspend on a 4th line and have enough resources left over to pay your stars.

When Quinn and Petey are on their new deals we will still have Beagle, Roussel and Loui in the books. That’s what may make it difficult to fill out a roster, not a big contract to a star like Eriksson.
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Post by Blob Mckenzie »

Diehard you are going to need a pretty good jackhammer to penetrate the thick skulls here.
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 18-19 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Diehard1 »

Strangelove wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:48 pm Lol, ole Diehard is on a mission!

The only reason Sutter would be difficult to trade at this point is because he's been plagued with injuries of late.

He's an elite defensive forward who excels at killing penalties.

A 17 minute plus forward whose salary Diehard compares to 7 minute forwards around the league...
Of late? The guy has played 188 of a possible 328 games since he’s been in Van. This isn’t of late, it’s a pattern. He’s a good defensive forward who is up there with the worst offensive guys in the league, he has 75 points those 188 games despite a shit ton of ice time. If he was making $2.5-$3 million like Beagle or Roussel it would be acceptable, but he’s making way more than that.

He’s also redundant - Beagle can take the d-zone faceoffs so why do we need 2 guys who can score but play solid D? Get rid of one, I’m not too concerned which of the two, and let Gaudette play 3rd line.

Alternatively move a Sutter to the wing and get rid of a couple of Spooner, Leivo, Granlund, Motte, Schaller. Zack Macewen should be on this team next year and he needs a spot.

Way too many 4th liners on this team, trade whoever has value and get something back for them. Sutter has name recognition and has played well in the last so he’s the most obvious one.
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Post by Diehard1 »

Blob Mckenzie wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:57 pm Diehard you are going to need a pretty good jackhammer to penetrate the thick skulls here.
Yup - the Jimbo lovers wont admit he’s ever done anything wrong no matter how small. He’s an average GM, no more, no less. Not sure why that’s so hard for some to figure out.
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Post by Meds »

Diehard1 wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:02 pm
Strangelove wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:48 pm Lol, ole Diehard is on a mission!

The only reason Sutter would be difficult to trade at this point is because he's been plagued with injuries of late.

He's an elite defensive forward who excels at killing penalties.

A 17 minute plus forward whose salary Diehard compares to 7 minute forwards around the league...
Of late? The guy has played 188 of a possible 328 games since he’s been in Van. This isn’t of late, it’s a pattern. He’s a good defensive forward who is up there with the worst offensive guys in the league, he has 75 points those 188 games despite a shit ton of ice time. If he was making $2.5-$3 million like Beagle or Roussel it would be acceptable, but he’s making way more than that.

He’s also redundant - Beagle can take the d-zone faceoffs so why do we need 2 guys who can score but play solid D? Get rid of one, I’m not too concerned which of the two, and let Gaudette play 3rd line.

Alternatively move a Sutter to the wing and get rid of a couple of Spooner, Leivo, Granlund, Motte, Schaller. Zack Macewen should be on this team next year and he needs a spot.

Way too many 4th liners on this team, trade whoever has value and get something back for them. Sutter has name recognition and has played well in the last so he’s the most obvious one.
Bingo.

No clue why so many people think this is a good thing.
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