Canuck News and Notes - 2018-2019

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vic
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Re: Canuck News and Notes - 2018-2019

Post by vic » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:50 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 6:04 am
Canucks spent that money on better prospect talent in Teves, Rafferty and Keilly. Late round draft picks rarely pan out. It’s kind ridiculous the draft goes beyond 5 rounds. Brassard a 7th round pick
I like that idea - make the draft 5 rounds then anyone who was draft eligible that year is free to sign as a free agent with any team that wants them as if they were drafted by them. Make the cut-off Jul 1, just before free agency opens. Any player not "signed" can return to the draft the following year.

The player would also have to be exempt from the contract limit as they would be treated as a drafted player.

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Re: Canuck News and Notes - 2018-2019

Post by micky107 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:45 pm

Richardstroker69 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:42 pm

I think gaudette is expendable with Sutter still here and madden plus this years first still in the pipeline.
I think Sutter is expendable now that Gaudette is here..................................................
And this coming campaign, Adam will be bringing more physicality into his game.
Sutter, on the other hand, will not be doing that.
Not now;
Not ever.
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Re: Canuck News and Notes - 2018-2019

Post by Richardstroker69 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:50 pm

micky107 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:45 pm
Richardstroker69 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:42 pm

I think gaudette is expendable with Sutter still here and madden plus this years first still in the pipeline.
I think Sutter is expendable now that Gaudette is here..................................................
And this coming campaign, Adam will be bringing more physicality into his game.
Sutter, on the other hand, will not be doing that.
Not now;
Not ever.
I like gaudette as well but if he can return a top 6 guy like Zucker (Sutter won’t do that), I’d rather get the young top 6 guy play Sutter who should have a rebound year, and then wait for madden who I think has a higher ceiling than gaudette. Also if we plan on taking a center at the draft (newhook, Zegras) that also opens things up down the line as well.

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Re: Canuck News and Notes - 2018-2019

Post by micky107 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:10 pm

Like I said on the other thread, the last time Canucks asked about him, they wanted Boeser.
Maybe things have changed.
Guadette won't do it, they'll want more.
We might regret trading a young center anyways.
Of course I'll always take a stab at the cracked foundation any chance I get.

About Zucker though. Hard to imagine how this gets done. Benning has informed the hockey world who his untouchables are.
Zucker is 27. Not that that's old but our new core is a smidge younger than that.
IMO, he'd have to use a pick along with a player.
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Re: Canuck News and Notes - 2018-2019

Post by Hockey Widow » Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:17 pm

The one thing Blob is right about is that Benning has to make the playoffs this up coming season or he is toast. This makes men do stupid things. We know Petey wants a sniper on his wing. We know we need to improve the D. It could get ugly.
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Re: Canuck News and Notes - 2018-2019

Post by Jovocop » Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:00 pm

Richardstroker69 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:42 pm
Jovocop wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:31 pm
theman wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:14 pm
Have been reading on twitter that the Canucks seem to be in on Zucker, sounds like Virtannen would be the centerpiece going the other way. Seems to fit the comments posted above. As in, trying to pump up his value to other teams.
The Canucks lack size and grit. Trading Virtanen for Zucker just does not make much sense. The Canucks might score a few more goals in the regular season but will also have the smallest team in the league.
Zucker is a huge upgrade on virtanen right now, scary part is virtanen at age 27-28 could be a beast. I wonder if something along the lines of gaudette and a 2020 pick could be an option (even a first if it’s lottery protected). Adding Zucker and a guy like johanson in free agency would greatly improve our top 6. I think gaudette is expendable with Sutter still here and madden plus this years first still in the pipeline.
Zucker is an upgrade but not huge.

Zucker - a 27 years old, 214 pts in 411 games (0.52 ppg) old smallish player ($5.5m)

Virtanen - a 22 years old, 59 pts in 210 games (0.28 ppg) power forward that is still trying to find his game. ($1.25m)

The Canucks should spend their money fixing up the defense which is their weakest link.

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Re: Canuck News and Notes - 2018-2019

Post by Meds » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:55 pm

Jovocop wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:00 pm
Richardstroker69 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:42 pm
Jovocop wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:31 pm
theman wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:14 pm
Have been reading on twitter that the Canucks seem to be in on Zucker, sounds like Virtannen would be the centerpiece going the other way. Seems to fit the comments posted above. As in, trying to pump up his value to other teams.
The Canucks lack size and grit. Trading Virtanen for Zucker just does not make much sense. The Canucks might score a few more goals in the regular season but will also have the smallest team in the league.
Zucker is a huge upgrade on virtanen right now, scary part is virtanen at age 27-28 could be a beast. I wonder if something along the lines of gaudette and a 2020 pick could be an option (even a first if it’s lottery protected). Adding Zucker and a guy like johanson in free agency would greatly improve our top 6. I think gaudette is expendable with Sutter still here and madden plus this years first still in the pipeline.
Zucker is an upgrade but not huge.

Zucker - a 27 years old, 214 pts in 411 games (0.52 ppg) old smallish player ($5.5m)

Virtanen - a 22 years old, 59 pts in 210 games (0.28 ppg) power forward that is still trying to find his game. ($1.25m)

The Canucks should spend their money fixing up the defense which is their weakest link.
Dead right Jovocop.

It's also worth pointing out that Virtanen can hit, and he gets half the PP time. Zucker had 7 goals and 14 of his 42 points on the PP this year. Jake had 2 goals. So....

5-on-5 Jake has 23 points in 70 games.

5-on-5 Zucker has 28 points in 81 games.

But yeah. Doc wants this guy.

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Re: Canuck News and Notes - 2018-2019

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:35 am

Hockey Widow wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:17 pm
The one thing Blob is right about is that Benning has to make the playoffs this up coming season or he is toast. This makes men do stupid things. We know Petey wants a sniper on his wing. We know we need to improve the D. It could get ugly.
You are correct. Might want to put this on blast for the Pom Pom waivers who think he has another half dozen years of immunity when it comes to team performance.

BTW Blob is right about a lot of things :)
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Re: Canuck News and Notes - 2018-2019

Post by Meds » Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:07 am

Richardstroker69 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:50 pm
micky107 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:45 pm
Richardstroker69 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:42 pm

I think gaudette is expendable with Sutter still here and madden plus this years first still in the pipeline.
I think Sutter is expendable now that Gaudette is here..................................................
And this coming campaign, Adam will be bringing more physicality into his game.
Sutter, on the other hand, will not be doing that.
Not now;
Not ever.
I like gaudette as well but if he can return a top 6 guy like Zucker (Sutter won’t do that), I’d rather get the young top 6 guy play Sutter who should have a rebound year, and then wait for madden who I think has a higher ceiling than gaudette. Also if we plan on taking a center at the draft (newhook, Zegras) that also opens things up down the line as well.
42 points. That's what we want in our top-6? 42 points? Zucker had a meager 5 more points than Virtanen at even strength.....in 11 more games.

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Re: Canuck News and Notes - 2018-2019

Post by Lancer » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:32 am

Zucker is not what this team needs. As someone else pointed out, better to target a cap-strapped team and get more ammunition to get what the roster needs via trade or draft.

Playoffs next year is not a far-off goal, but hopefully Benning doesn’t throw the rebuild off course to save his ass.
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Re: Canuck News and Notes - 2018-2019

Post by ESQ » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:22 am

Meds wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:07 am

42 points. That's what we want in our top-6? 42 points? Zucker had a meager 5 more points than Virtanen at even strength.....in 11 more games.
Ya true that.

A 1st-line winger should be putting up 55+ points. 42 points is acceptable for a second line winger, but we have cheaper options that still have the upside of potentially cracking 40 points with pp time and an offensive role - Goldobin, Pearson, Baertschi. Jake was on that pace through the first half of the year. Roussel surprised all/most of us by producing at a 40+ point pace. McEwen could earn a spot next year.

That's 5 guys for 3 590-6 winger spots, and to me Zucker will dump right into the middle of that pack, while carrying a cap hit of $5.5 mil.

I'm all for upgrading those wingers, but it has to be an actual upgrade. Zucker is just another tweener.

Again, sounds like a click bait rumor.

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Re: Canuck News and Notes - 2018-2019

Post by Meds » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:00 am

ESQ wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:22 am
Meds wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:07 am

42 points. That's what we want in our top-6? 42 points? Zucker had a meager 5 more points than Virtanen at even strength.....in 11 more games.
Ya true that.

A 1st-line winger should be putting up 55+ points. 42 points is acceptable for a second line winger, but we have cheaper options that still have the upside of potentially cracking 40 points with pp time and an offensive role - Goldobin, Pearson, Baertschi. Jake was on that pace through the first half of the year. Roussel surprised all/most of us by producing at a 40+ point pace. McEwen could earn a spot next year.

That's 5 guys for 3 590-6 winger spots, and to me Zucker will dump right into the middle of that pack, while carrying a cap hit of $5.5 mil.

I'm all for upgrading those wingers, but it has to be an actual upgrade. Zucker is just another tweener.

Again, sounds like a click bait rumor.
55? I feel like that's a low bar, even on a bottom 15 team.

45+ is what I would be looking for from a 2nd line guy, but even then you ideally want 50 points from your second line guys. To me a guy is only a locked in top line player when they are eclipsing 70 on a regular basis.....maybe I'm just too old school and forget that the 80's and early 90's are gone forever.

The exceptions are players like Toews who produce lower than what most elite centers do, but is so effective at both ends of the ice that it offsets.....and even Toews has the ability to chip in 70 points anyhow.

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Re: Canuck News and Notes - 2018-2019

Post by micky107 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:16 am

Meds wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:00 am

The exceptions are players like Toews who produce lower than what most elite centers do, but is so effective at both ends of the ice that it offsets.....and even Toews has the ability to chip in 70 points anyhow.
Toews has maybe the best on-ice vision I've seen, ever. At times he's been uncanny.
Pettersson may have that quality. Too soon to say for sure but he shocked me a few times.
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Re: Canuck News and Notes - 2018-2019

Post by Meds » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:06 pm

micky107 wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:16 am
Meds wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:00 am

The exceptions are players like Toews who produce lower than what most elite centers do, but is so effective at both ends of the ice that it offsets.....and even Toews has the ability to chip in 70 points anyhow.
Toews has maybe the best on-ice vision I've seen, ever. At times he's been uncanny.
Pettersson may have that quality. Too soon to say for sure but he shocked me a few times.
Seriously dude? Toews?

I'm guessing you're a millennial then who is too young to have watched Gretzky and Lemieux, or Adam Oates, Steve Yzerman, or Doug Gilmore. Maybe you've just forgotten names like Larionov and Coffey, and Bourque.....or you're just ignorant enough to have turned a blind eye towards a guy like Thornton.

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Re: Canuck News and Notes - 2018-2019

Post by ESQ » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:25 pm

Meds wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:00 am

55? I feel like that's a low bar, even on a bottom 15 team.

45+ is what I would be looking for from a 2nd line guy, but even then you ideally want 50 points from your second line guys. To me a guy is only a locked in top line player when they are eclipsing 70 on a regular basis.....maybe I'm just too old school and forget that the 80's and early 90's are gone forever.

The exceptions are players like Toews who produce lower than what most elite centers do, but is so effective at both ends of the ice that it offsets.....and even Toews has the ability to chip in 70 points anyhow.
When you look at the offensive juggernauts - e.g. Last year's Lightning and the 2010/11 Canucks - there are 3 elite 70+ point forwards, and the 2nd line wingers get 45ish points. 45ish points from your 2nd liners is actually, surprisingly considered elite.

The order of scoring is usually #1 center , #1 winger, #2 center (e.g. Henrik, Daniel, Kesler in 2011). You rarely see second-line wingers (e.g. Raymond and Sammuelsson) get more than 45 points.

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