Expansion draft

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Strangelove
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Re: Expansion draft

Post by Strangelove » Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:45 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote: So we're comparing a guy that signed a deal a year in advance of hitting UFA status, to players that could shop around and get the highest possible value and term from any bidder in the league. You're saying they're in "essentially" the same situation.
That's right, and this is part of why agents and GMs get the big bucks:

they must calculate what the player will likely get in the bidding market of UFAgency.

Sutter was signed to the higher priced "UFA years" (as opposed to "RFA years").

So ESQ rightly compared Sutter's contract to "middle-of-the-pack comparable UFA contracts".
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Re: Expansion draft

Post by Island Nucklehead » Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:36 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote: So we're comparing a guy that signed a deal a year in advance of hitting UFA status, to players that could shop around and get the highest possible value and term from any bidder in the league. You're saying they're in "essentially" the same situation.
That's right, and this is part of why agents and GMs get the big bucks:

they must calculate what the player will likely get in the bidding market of UFAgency.

Sutter was signed to the higher priced "UFA years" (as opposed to "RFA years").

So ESQ rightly compared Sutter's contract to "middle-of-the-pack comparable UFA contracts".
Except none of those UFA contracts were signed under the same circumstances as Sutter. Benning is, as you say, guessing at the market.

Maybe we should look at contracts like Berglund's and Smith's instead.

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Re: Expansion draft

Post by Strangelove » Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:17 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote: Maybe we should look at contracts like Berglund's and Smith's instead.
Yeahno, i think ESQ lost interest in this conversation a while back. :mrgreen:
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Re: Expansion draft

Post by Doyle Hargraves » Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:33 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote: Maybe we should look at contracts like Berglund's and Smith's instead.
Yeahno, i think ESQ lost interest in this conversation a while back. :mrgreen:
I can understand you guys losing interest when you're constantly getting abused. You should change your handle to Jodie Foster (The Accused)
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Re: Expansion draft

Post by Strangelove » Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:40 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:you guys
Canuck fans? :eh:
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Re: Expansion draft

Post by Doyle Hargraves » Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:44 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:you guys
Benning fans? :eh:
Fixed
“ROR IS OVERRATED, MACKINNON IS A BUM, TAVARES IS DONE”

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Re: Expansion draft

Post by Strangelove » Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:48 pm

Admit It Blob, you hate Mr Benning's team! Image
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Re: Expansion draft

Post by Doyle Hargraves » Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:48 pm

Strangelove wrote:Admit It Blob, you hate Mr BenningImage
Fixed again
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Re: Expansion draft

Post by Strangelove » Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:53 pm

denial...
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Re: Expansion draft

Post by Doyle Hargraves » Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:11 pm

Strangelove wrote:denial...

No .....no I hate him. He ain't Jack Gordon bad yet..... yet. We have had a bad crew of managers in Vancouver from Milford to Neale, to Gordon to Elmer. We needed a Keenan in here after Eye Bags.
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Re: Expansion draft

Post by ESQ » Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:32 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Maybe we should look at contracts like Berglund's and Smith's instead.
Yeah I did lose interest, but go ahead and compare Sutter's contract to Berglund. $675k for a third line center over a third line left-wing who doesn't kill penalties.

Seems about right to me. Maybe an over payment for Berglund, but thats the price teams pay to lock up proven NHLers at the end of their rfa status.

Or Smith - he's making $625k more as a 1st/2nd line left wing who scores 35-50 points. Also seems about right.

Doesn't seem all that controversial to me...

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Re: Expansion draft

Post by Island Nucklehead » Mon May 01, 2017 10:05 am

ESQ wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:
Maybe we should look at contracts like Berglund's and Smith's instead.
Yeah I did lose interest, but go ahead and compare Sutter's contract to Berglund. $675k for a third line center over a third line left-wing who doesn't kill penalties.

Seems about right to me. Maybe an over payment for Berglund, but thats the price teams pay to lock up proven NHLers at the end of their rfa status.

Or Smith - he's making $625k more as a 1st/2nd line left wing who scores 35-50 points. Also seems about right.

Doesn't seem all that controversial to me...
If Berglund (who also plays C - like Sutter moonlights on the wing.. 34 pts (.41 PPG), 16mins/night and 50%) is overpaid at $500K less than Sutter, what does that make Sutter?

Zack Smith (Ottawa, C, 32 points (.43 PPG), 16:22/night, 52%) will be more than $1M cheaper than Sutter (34 Points (.42 PPG), 18:48/night, 54%).

Both guys got limited trade protection (Berglund 6 team no-trade list... Smith 10 team no-trade list), but not as good as Sutter's (full NTC for first three years...)

Anyways, maybe the Canucks are placing a higher premium on buying up "UFA years" than other teams, but it's clear that other teams are more successful extending similar players under similar circumstances.

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Re: Expansion draft

Post by SKYO » Mon May 01, 2017 10:30 am

Anisimov - $4.55m
Kadri - $4.5m
Laich - $4.5m
Killorn - $4.45m
Sutter - $4.375m
Couturier - $4.33m (weird after 6 years Couts has never passed 40 points, thought he had vast potential)


Back to expansion it's looking more like Sbisa is going to be taken, just as I was liking his depth gritty style ha.
His 3 year contract flew by.
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Re: Expansion draft

Post by ESQ » Mon May 01, 2017 10:46 am

Island Nucklehead wrote: Anyways, maybe the Canucks are placing a higher premium on buying up "UFA years" than other teams, but it's clear that other teams are more successful extending similar players under similar circumstances.
That could very well be, but if it is its by a couple hundred thousand, not millions.

I would argue that the Canucks' difficulties in recruiting UFAs, it makes sense to pay more for UFA years. Its not as drastic as, say, Edmonton, who has to pay Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (43 points, 43.8% FO, $6mil) to hang on to 2 years of UFA. But nonetheless, attracting UFAs is a problem, always has been and always will be.

I agree Zack Smith's contract is better, though I'd be wary of extending a 3rd-liner to age 32 who was playing in Denmark 4 years ago. Sutter undoubtedly is more established/experienced, he's a bit younger and maybe (just maybe) has a bit more offensive upside - he was 24 when he was extended, vs Smith at 28. All those attributes cost $.

I would actually say Benning's worst contract is Dorsett's. The "replacement player" for Dorsett costs $2 mil less, and doesn't have a broken neck. Worst case scenario, i.e. if we accept that Smith and Sutter are equivalent players, Sutter's replacement player is $1 mil less.

But whatever you may think of Sutter holding the team back, its obviously dwarfed by the $14 million for 30 goals from the Sedin (and 7 on the top PP from them). Sutter getting an extra $1 million wouldn't have done anything about that. Maybe drafting Nylander and Tkachuk would have, though I doubt Willie would have coached them to the offensive production they hit.

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Re: Expansion draft

Post by SKYO » Mon May 01, 2017 11:47 am

Yup Dorsett's contract's been the worse, way overpaid energy guy with term to boot, at least there's only two years left and with a team full of small somewhat skilled guys it's nice to have someone who can hit/kill penalties/scrap once in awhile.
A long time ago, a baseball player remarked: "If I owned a ballclub, I'd hire a $5,000 coach and a $15,000 scout."

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