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Re: Canucks Contracts

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:13 pm
by Meds
Vin Tanner wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:47 pm
Cousin Strawberry wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:43 pm
Vin Tanner wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:40 pm
Cousin Strawberry wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:57 pm Leaked rumour from a legitimate source is both contracts are close to done.

EP is 8x3 and QH is 8x8

Good enough, drop the puck
Petey at 8x 3 is not a good deal. Shave a million off that for sure.
But 8 for Hughes is a good deal.

Id definitely prefer to go long on petey and 3 years on Quinnith but if it means we can stop hearing about these fucking contracts and get on with actual hockey talk its well worth it for me (especially seeing as its not my millions)
Hughes at 8 x 3 isn’t a good deal. If he wants three years he can take 6. Hughes at 8x8 is a gamble I’d make all day. Petey seems to desire short term. 6.75-7 x 3.
Hughes at $8M for max term is a big deal. Good for the team so long as he continues to produce at around 0.75ppg or better. It also speaks volumes that he signed for max term at that rate. He's not a guy who has been the benefactor of ice time with amazing forwards that sees him pile up the courtesy assists, he drives offense. When Edmonton blew the defenseman pay scale out of the water by giving Nurse max term at $9.25M I thought for sure we were going to be seeing Hughes on a short term deal in hopes of cashing in bigger in a few years.....tells me that Huggie Bear wants to be in Vancouver.

Petey on the short deal though, it just gives me pause with this kid. He's a talent, no question, but he's definitely a departure from the typical Swedish stars we've had in the past, this kid is in it to win it, and that includes his bank account. Petey is definitely less team-first than his predecessors. But maybe that's a good thing for Vancouver. Keeps the heat on ownership and management to build something worthwhile.

Re: Canucks Contracts

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:23 pm
by Meds
Carl Yagro wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:32 pm That's why players hire agents with telephones... so they can attend football games live and know that a contract will get done.

Also, agents of superstar players will usually drag it out because their clients often times have the leverage. Sometimes things get done earlier, but they still wait to announce it.

Btw, Bo signed with less than a week to camp and Brock signed a few days before camp.

Why worry? It's done deals :mex:
Yeah, one has to think it's been pretty well done for a while now. Otherwise we should have seen an offersheet for Pettersson, he's good enough and young enough to be worth a team being willing to give up the compensation due under $8.22M.

If I was Buffalo I would have traded Eichel for the biggest draft pick haul I could get and then handed Petey an offersheet for $10M. :P

Or if I was Bergevin I would have done the same thing after passing on JK. With Weber missing the entire season there's the cap space required for Petey.....and if Benning matches then make the trade with AZ for Dvorak.

Re: Canucks Contracts

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:25 pm
by Meds
Cousin Strawberry wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:07 pm
Carl Yagro wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:04 pm You just said it was from a legitimate source :lol:

:scowl:

just bugging
I want to believe!
Cuz and his Canucks coloured grass.....

Re: Canucks Contracts

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:40 pm
by Megaterio Llamas
ESQ wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:18 pm
Megaterio Llamas wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:53 pm
ESQ wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:50 pm
Cousin Strawberry wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:21 am I reckon this is Myers last year in Van unless he inexplicably turns it around and starts living up to his cap hit. They'll need his dough for BB/Horvat/Miller/Hoglander
A 22+ minute right-shooting dman who elevates his nastiness in the playoffs is worth $6m every day.

Myers has 100% played up to his cap hit, he was the best all-around dman they had last year.

You pay 20% extra for the right shot, imo, that's just supply and command buds.

If the Hughes deal is correct, Myers will be the #3 cap hit on d and will be the least of our worries (cough OEL).
He's only worth maybe $2.75 to me, but it's like they say. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Well, here's the basest way I look at it - someone's gotta eat the minutes on the right side. We've gone a season with a bargain basement Hutton eating them, and he had a career year, and the team was right in the toilet
We had many years with Tanev intended to eat those minutes, and he was playing 40-60 games while tying up cap space that could have improved the team in the off-season. Tanev looked great when not eating those minutes and staying healthy in his final year, but he wasn't the 22 minute defender.

Myers came along, and everyone was so down on him because as the only RD and with dhaliwal shilling hard for the agent the rumor was $7 x7. Low and behold, that rumor is totally and wrong and the top ufa RD signs for $6x6.

Since then, he's been the best, most reliable defender on THIS team. He's not Pietrangelo sure, but he's signed shorter and far, far cheaper.

He's not the greatest RD in the league, but he's damn good. And more than anyone else, he was tough and better in the playoffs.

If there was an equivalent top-pair RD on a 2.75 contract, you'd be paying multiple 1rps or top prospects to acquire. I can't think of an example though, because I don't see any 22+ minute, 30+ point BIG right shooting dmen who make less than $6m.

Parayko is a good comp, and he's got a $6.5M cap hit until age 37.

But if you think Myers is closer to Gudbranson than to Parayko, I see your point. But I think Myers is a far better, more solid player, and I think $6m is right there for market value for RD. And sadly, there isn't a top prospect coming on the right side to supplant Myers in the top role.
To me we have three pretty equal rd in Hambone, Stork and Poolman with the main thing separating them being the hefty Myers contract. And I'm actually okay with these three lining up on the right side, but if we could have given that money to Tanev I'd be even happier. He held it down with Hughes and allowed Hughes to do his thing but Storkie couldn't handle the assignment. Enter Hambone on a team friendly budget contract and while no Tanman he was at least able to stop the bleeding. I'm thinking Poolman might be the answer for Hughes but that remains to be seen. As it stands right now, Ham is the default partner for QH.

For me Stork is at his best on the pk using his octopus-like reach to take up space and break up plays. But you're just never going to get your six million bucks worth there. I can see a scenario where Luke Schenn makes to the top six out of camp forming a punishing third pairing with the Stork moving to the left side.

Re: Canucks Contracts

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:59 pm
by Hockey Widow
theman wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:11 pm Where is HW? Hopefully she is working her sources right now.
Sorry, all I heard is a deal is close and will be done before camp starts but no numbers.

Re: Canucks Contracts

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:08 pm
by Hockey Widow
I think the issue with Petty is that the believes he is a 10+ million dollar guy but his production falls short. he has the potential, we all see it, but he isn't going to hit those numbers yet. For him he has 3 years to get his production up to meet his potential. If he does that he will get his bigger payday.

Hughes is a puzzle to me. I thought he would want the short term deal but good on him for signing the long term deal now, if true. Petty is banking on his numbers going up, the cap going up and the Canucks ability to clear more cap in 3 years.

Does this mean Petty is still RFA in 3 years?

Re: Canucks Contracts

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:08 pm
by ESQ
Vin Tanner wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:41 pm . He’s no Salo, he’s no Bieksa, he’s no Tanev but he’s pretty much the best they have on that side. He’s somewhat physical, makes a decent first pass and can shoot the puck. Comparing him to Eriksson isn’t cool though.
Well, I agree with you that he's a weird hybrid of those three players. Not as good all-around as salo, but healthier and more physical. Not as physical as Bxa, but better all-around. Not as good all-around as Tanev, but waaaay healthier and more physical in the playoffs.

Its hard to put a price tag on a player like that - Jack of all trades, master of none - but I'm fine with paying a premium for right-shot, for size, for durability, and for good term through his peak years.

A million miles from LouI.

Again, we can go bargain-basement route or bank on Tanev being healthy, but next thing you know Ben Hutton is playing 25 minutes a night and we're all bemoaning the lack of depth.

Myers to age 32 for $6m as the top RD is not a problem, and will not be a problem.

Also I made a mistake, he only signed v$6x5 years - genius!

Re: Canucks Contracts

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:14 pm
by ESQ
Meds wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:23 pm
If I was Buffalo I would have traded Eichel for the biggest draft pick haul I could get and then handed Petey an offersheet for $10M. :P

Or if I was Bergevin I would have done the same thing after passing on JK. With Weber missing the entire season there's the cap space required for Petey.....and if Benning matches then make the trade with AZ for Dvorak.
I gotta think every team in the league took a crack at an offer sheet. JK signed one because he hated the coach after getting healthy scratched in the finals.

I believe Petey bleeds blue and green more than we give him credit, given his otherwise robotic nature and thinly-veiled contempt for the idiotic local media. If the rumor is $ 8x3, based on past experience of basically every contract Benning has signed getting trashed based on rumors I think it'll be $7x3.

Re: Canucks Contracts

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:41 pm
by Megaterio Llamas
ESQ wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:14 pm
Meds wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:23 pm
If I was Buffalo I would have traded Eichel for the biggest draft pick haul I could get and then handed Petey an offersheet for $10M. :P

Or if I was Bergevin I would have done the same thing after passing on JK. With Weber missing the entire season there's the cap space required for Petey.....and if Benning matches then make the trade with AZ for Dvorak.
I gotta think every team in the league took a crack at an offer sheet. JK signed one because he hated the coach after getting healthy scratched in the finals.

I believe Petey bleeds blue and green more than we give him credit, given his otherwise robotic nature and thinly-veiled contempt for the idiotic local media. If the rumor is $ 8x3, based on past experience of basically every contract Benning has signed getting trashed based on rumors I think it'll be $7x3.
$8x3 seems fair to me. Fwiw a year ago here I predicted $8x8 for Hughes and $10x8 for Petey.

Still think it would have gone down that way had we preserved the cap space to go long on both contracts.

Re: Canucks Contracts

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:44 pm
by Micky
Megaterio Llamas wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:40 pm
For me Stork is at his best on the pk using his octopus-like reach to take up space and break up plays. But you're just never going to get your six million bucks worth there. I can see a scenario where Luke Schenn makes to the top six out of camp forming a punishing third pairing with the Stork moving to the left side.
Not sure your giving Myers the credit he deserves. The Canucks defense was poorly coached last year and it made everyone look bad. Myers is not the right partner for Hughes as they both rush the puck and are offense minded. But Myers takes on some of the really tough assignments and kills penalties. To compare Schenn to Myers currently, seems odd. I thought when we signed Schenn, it might be mostly for press-box duties for the most part.

Re: Canucks Contracts

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:55 pm
by Megaterio Llamas
Micky wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:44 pm
Megaterio Llamas wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:40 pm
For me Stork is at his best on the pk using his octopus-like reach to take up space and break up plays. But you're just never going to get your six million bucks worth there. I can see a scenario where Luke Schenn makes to the top six out of camp forming a punishing third pairing with the Stork moving to the left side.
Not sure your giving Myers the credit he deserves. The Canucks defense was poorly coached last year and it made everyone look bad. Myers is not the right partner for Hughes as they both rush the puck and are offense minded. But Myers takes on some of the really tough assignments and kills penalties. To compare Schenn to Myers currently, seems odd. I thought when we signed Schenn, it might be mostly for press-box duties for the most part.
Well, obviously when you're paired with Quinn Hughes you're not the one rushing the puck. If you have any sense at all.

I didn't compare Schenn to Myers Mick, I suggested a scenario where the two could be paired together on a tough third pairing with Myers shifting over to the left side. Given a two lefty/four righty scheme (you can never have too many RHD-five or six would be even better) I believe Myers might most successfully make the adjustment to the wrong side. He would still be able to deploy his reach to defend, especially to the outside.

Re: Canucks Contracts

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:24 am
by Hockey Widow
Remember, Green is loath to play a Dman on his off side, unless he has no choice. Better Dmen will sit just for Green to have that balance. I dont see a scenario where Green plays Myers and Schenn together. Stranger things have happened.

I also see Myers a damn sight better than some around here.

Re: Canucks Contracts

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:35 am
by Vin Tanner
ESQ wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:08 pm
Vin Tanner wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:41 pm . He’s no Salo, he’s no Bieksa, he’s no Tanev but he’s pretty much the best they have on that side. He’s somewhat physical, makes a decent first pass and can shoot the puck. Comparing him to Eriksson isn’t cool though.
Well, I agree with you that he's a weird hybrid of those three players. Not as good all-around as salo, but healthier and more physical. Not as physical as Bxa, but better all-around. Not as good all-around as Tanev, but waaaay healthier and more physical in the playoffs.

Its hard to put a price tag on a player like that - Jack of all trades, master of none - but I'm fine with paying a premium for right-shot, for size, for durability, and for good term through his peak years.

A million miles from LouI.

Again, we can go bargain-basement route or bank on Tanev being healthy, but next thing you know Ben Hutton is playing 25 minutes a night and we're all bemoaning the lack of depth.

Myers to age 32 for $6m as the top RD is not a problem, and will not be a problem.

Also I made a mistake, he only signed v$6x5 years - genius!
If Myers is your top RD the team is likely not much more than a playoff team. He was behind Fugly and Trouba in Winnipeg on a solid team

Re: Canucks Contracts

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:30 am
by ESQ
Vin Tanner wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:35 am
If Myers is your top RD the team is likely not much more than a playoff team. He was behind Fugly and Trouba in Winnipeg on a solid team
Would you trade Myers with $6x3 remaining for Trouba with $8x5 remaining?

Trouba had one crazy 50-point season while playing for a trade and a yuge contract, but other than that he's been an average D in all areas and is now making top-D money. The years he played the biggest role in Winnipeg, the Jets were not a playoff team.

Re: Canucks Contracts

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:34 am
by SKYO
Vin Tanner wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:35 am
ESQ wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:08 pm
Vin Tanner wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:41 pm . He’s no Salo, he’s no Bieksa, he’s no Tanev but he’s pretty much the best they have on that side. He’s somewhat physical, makes a decent first pass and can shoot the puck. Comparing him to Eriksson isn’t cool though.
Well, I agree with you that he's a weird hybrid of those three players. Not as good all-around as salo, but healthier and more physical. Not as physical as Bxa, but better all-around. Not as good all-around as Tanev, but waaaay healthier and more physical in the playoffs.

Its hard to put a price tag on a player like that - Jack of all trades, master of none - but I'm fine with paying a premium for right-shot, for size, for durability, and for good term through his peak years.

A million miles from LouI.

Again, we can go bargain-basement route or bank on Tanev being healthy, but next thing you know Ben Hutton is playing 25 minutes a night and we're all bemoaning the lack of depth.

Myers to age 32 for $6m as the top RD is not a problem, and will not be a problem.

Also I made a mistake, he only signed v$6x5 years - genius!
If Myers is your top RD the team is likely not much more than a playoff team. He was behind Fugly and Trouba in Winnipeg on a solid team
Conversely if most of your talent is on LD, you don't need top tier all-star right side dmen, you just need a supporting cast ala Tampa Bay Lightning styles, where they had 31 year old Jan Rutta on their top pairing, where he averages 7, 8 points a season.
Erik Cernak who averages about 12 points a season.
And they traded a 1st+3rd for a rental in Savard who now is basically a defensive dman.

At least Myers can average about 20-30 points, while he and Hamonic are the teams leading shot blockers.