Canucks Contracts

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rats19
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Re: Canucks Contracts

Post by rats19 »

Strangelove wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:31 pm
Micky wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:18 pm
Strangelove wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:51 pm
Tciso wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:48 am
Micky wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:26 am Put this here because it could become an issue.
This is not an issue.
Agreed, Micky, why do you consider this an issue?
It is if Green decides he wants him with the parent club. Francesco may raise an eyebrow. Every little bit right now, mm?
It's not inconceivable.
What the hell are you talking about Micky?
Maybe the 1 mill saved when he is in Utica?
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Re: Canucks Contracts

Post by Strangelove »

rats19 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:32 pm
Strangelove wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:31 pm
Micky wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:18 pm
Strangelove wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:51 pm
Tciso wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:48 am
Micky wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:26 am Put this here because it could become an issue.
This is not an issue.
Agreed, Micky, why do you consider this an issue?
It is if Green decides he wants him with the parent club. Francesco may raise an eyebrow. Every little bit right now, mm?
It's not inconceivable.
What the hell are you talking about Micky?
Maybe the 1 mill saved when he is in Utica?
Ratski, are you trying to think like Micky? :wow:

Don't play with your brain like that... it may stay that way!

:mrgreen:

But seriously now folks...

It doesn't much matter financially if Baer makes the team or not.

If we bury him in Utica, the cap hit is $3.37M... minus $1.075M... plus ~ $0.9M-ish replacement player.

And no matter where Sven plays, he gets every penny of the $2.4M in real dollars due him this season.
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Re: Canucks Contracts

Post by UWSaint »

Topper wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:32 pm Sven as a bubble call up may be a role for him. In Utica, Vancouver gains ~$1M cap relief. Is signing a cheap vet looking for a job a better option? That depends on what is on the market shelves. the stiffer competition he face is from a developing rookie. Are the Canuck's resources better utilized on a young talent sticking with the club.
(1) If young talent is at or close to Baertschi's add, the club is better going with young talent.
(2) Assuming the cheap vet is approx. $1M, its a salary cap wash. If equal to Baer in the preseason competition, I'd rather see Baer. Replacing mediocrity with mediocrity with no cap difference is a waste.
(3) There are different forms of mediocrity. Zach MacEwan is one form. What he brings to the team is different than Baerstchi. For many, its something that they want to see, the kind of lay-it-all-out-there heart that results in big loud noises on the board the occasional goal-by-sheer-will, and a core skill level that results in an unfortunately high percentage of turnovers for failure to corral passes that NHL players handle. That sounds critical, especially for posters who track my relative disinterest in loud noises for the sake of making loud noises and my appreciation for clever players. But I'd probably rather see Zach earn the spot, too. Because there is potentially room to grow a bit more (the reason for (1) above).
(4) There's lots of wisdom to using the bubble "practice squad" to include no-longer-prospect tweeners. Lets the true prospects play in the AHL if they can't earn a lineup spot.
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Re: Canucks Contracts

Post by Todd Bersnoozi »

Micky wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:26 am
Ben Kuzma: Can Sven Baertschi get it right winging it to fill Canucks’ big roster hole?
I have never been much of a Baercheese fan, but I was thinking before, since we're paying him anyways and if he earns a spot, might as well play him here. Put him with Petey+Miller, see if he can get going a bit and get his value up, then get just rid of him (pump + dump).
Strangelove wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:19 pm Bailey signed...

One year deal: $750K at the NHL level, $225K at the AHL level.
After we get rid of Baercheese, I wouldn't mind giving this guy a look as I'm quite intrigued by him. Maybe Bailey can be a guy who can throw his weight around and score the odd goal here and there. :P
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Re: Canucks Contracts

Post by Madcombinepilot »

Todd Bersnoozi wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:57 pm
Micky wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:26 am
Ben Kuzma: Can Sven Baertschi get it right winging it to fill Canucks’ big roster hole?
I have never been much of a Baercheese fan, but I was thinking before, since we're paying him anyways and if he earns a spot, might as well play him here. Put him with Petey+Miller, see if he can get going a bit and get his value up, then get just rid of him (pump + dump).
Strangelove wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:19 pm Bailey signed...

One year deal: $750K at the NHL level, $225K at the AHL level.
After we get rid of Baercheese, I wouldn't mind giving this guy a look as I'm quite intrigued by him. Maybe Bailey can be a guy who can throw his weight around and score the odd goal here and there. :P
meh.. Bailey is the kind of tweener that either earns it at camp, or does not make it. With the team depth we have developed, "giving a guy a look" should not happen. If he earns it at camp, and there is no room for new prospects in the lineup, they get sent down and wait for their opportunity. No gifts for anyone. If he out plays a vet at camp, the vet is sent down (Baertschi).
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Re: Canucks Contracts

Post by Todd Bersnoozi »

Madcombinepilot wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:56 am meh.. Bailey is the kind of tweener that either earns it at camp, or does not make it. With the team depth we have developed, "giving a guy a look" should not happen. If he earns it at camp, and there is no room for new prospects in the lineup, they get sent down and wait for their opportunity. No gifts for anyone. If he out plays a vet at camp, the vet is sent down (Baertschi).
U never know with injuries. They say with the condensed schedule, there will be injuries, so u need the depth. Maybe Bailey's a guy who can step in and help out up front when one of the regulars goes down. We also lost a couple of forwards (Leivo, Toffoli) and who knows with Ferland, so there might be a spot available. That's why there's the talk of a possible return of Bearcheese.
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Re: Canucks Contracts

Post by Madcombinepilot »

Todd Bersnoozi wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:03 pm
Madcombinepilot wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:56 am meh.. Bailey is the kind of tweener that either earns it at camp, or does not make it. With the team depth we have developed, "giving a guy a look" should not happen. If he earns it at camp, and there is no room for new prospects in the lineup, they get sent down and wait for their opportunity. No gifts for anyone. If he out plays a vet at camp, the vet is sent down (Baertschi).
U never know with injuries. They say with the condensed schedule, there will be injuries, so u need the depth. Maybe Bailey's a guy who can step in and help out up front when one of the regulars goes down. We also lost a couple of forwards (Leivo, Toffoli) and who knows with Ferland, so there might be a spot available. That's why there's the talk of a possible return of Bearcheese.
I was commenting on giving a guy a look, and how that’s what training camp was for, not during games in a shortened season.

Depth for injuries is a different topic, but that’s part of what I meant when I said ‘wait for their opportunity’
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Re: Canucks Contracts

Post by Hockey Widow »

Before Baertschi's concussion problems went full bloom he was an effective player for us and exciting to watch. He was learning to play away from the puck too. This extended time off for him will be very beneficial. If he can regain his confidence, lose his fear and be less intimidated out there I think he can have a productive year for us. Perhaps not in the way that would signal a new contract but one where we can at least get some production from him. I'm willing to give him a chance. His biggest problem when he returned was fear of getting hit.
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Re: Canucks Contracts

Post by Richardstroker69 »

Hockey Widow wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:43 am Before Baertschi's concussion problems went full bloom he was an effective player for us and exciting to watch. He was learning to play away from the puck too. This extended time off for him will be very beneficial. If he can regain his confidence, lose his fear and be less intimidated out there I think he can have a productive year for us. Perhaps not in the way that would signal a new contract but one where we can at least get some production from him. I'm willing to give him a chance. His biggest problem when he returned was fear of getting hit.
If he can drive play like he used to and be responsible defensively he could be a decent option as a setup guy for gaudette and Jake/macewen. He had great chemistry with bo before the concussions and helped him a lot.
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Re: Canucks Contracts

Post by Cherry Picker »

Thirty-six skaters allowed at training camp and unlimited goalies. Assuming Ferland is on LTIR they probably invite

Miller Pettersson Boeser
Pearson Horvat Virtanen
Roussel Gaudette McEwen
Motte Beagle Eriksson
Hawryluk Sutter Bailey
Baertschi Graovac Lind
Hoglander Michaelis Lockwood
Gadjovich

Myers Hughes
Schmidt Edler
Benn Juolevi
Rafferty Rathbone
Chatfield Sautner
Elliot Brisebois
Woo Teves

and leave Jasek and Palmu overseas on their European clubs.

They’ll need to whittle that down by seven to start the season leaving them with 23 on the roster and 6 on the taxi squad.
Those seven, unless they are awesome at camp, will likely be Michaelis, Lockwood, Gadjovich, Elliot, Brisebois, Woo, and Teves. Hopefully they have a Utica team to play on this year?
Of course if management invites anyone else to camp on a PTO, or sign anyone this roster could change, and that number of players would have to be uninvited.

They’ll probably have Demko, Holtby, Dipietro and Kielly at camp. Each team needs to carry three goalies, so I guess Dipietro stays on the taxi squad, but I think he’d be better off developing in Utica playing games. I won’t be surprised to see the Canucks sign a journeyman goalie to play on the taxi squad.
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Re: Canucks Contracts

Post by UWSaint »

Cherry Picker wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:14 pm They’ll need to whittle that down by seven to start the season leaving them with 23 on the roster and 6 on the taxi squad.
Those seven, unless they are awesome at camp, will likely be Michaelis, Lockwood, Gadjovich, Elliot, Brisebois, Woo, and Teves. Hopefully they have a Utica team to play on this year?
Of course if management invites anyone else to camp on a PTO, or sign anyone this roster could change, and that number of players would have to be uninvited.

They’ll probably have Demko, Holtby, Dipietro and Kielly at camp. Each team needs to carry three goalies, so I guess Dipietro stays on the taxi squad, but I think he’d be better off developing in Utica playing games. I won’t be surprised to see the Canucks sign a journeyman goalie to play on the taxi squad.
The comment that you think DiPietro would be better developing in Utica and playing games applies to nearly all the prospects. The 29 (or whatever) players on the team or in the taxi squad will not be the best players in the organization -- not if the player is a prospect who is not going to be a starting player.

For example, there's little to no chance a guy like Hoglander travels with the team or would make the team to be the 13th forward or whatever. Why stop him from playing hockey games; he'd be better in Utica trying to learn the North American game or in Sweden trying to master that league. As of now, he's just a decent player there -- decent players there are at BEST decent AHL players. He must develop more.

When you think about defensemen, do you want to carry Rathbone as a #7 or 8 or a taxi squad guy? No. If Rathbone makes the team, it will be earned a spot in the starting lineup. But if he doesn't? He's got a ton to learn. He's never played a pro game. Same with Woo. Players like Brisebois and Teves, on the other hand, have more or less strung out their development time and are fine to carry. Rafferty is another one -- its basically now or never for him.

This is, of course, all contingent on the AHL playing. But they almost certainly will.
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Re: Canucks Contracts

Post by Cherry Picker »

You’re right that the AHL is the place for the prospects to develop, but just practicing with the vets on the taxi squad would help them if the AHL getting started is delayed. It will be hard for even the best prospects to earn a spot with no preseason games. You’d think Green will want as much of the familiarity from his playoff roster as he can arrange to get off to as fast a start as possible. In the North division a fast start will likely be key, which means patience for prospects to learn will be in short supply. Rathbone and Hoglander would have to look like stars in the inter-squad scrimmages to have any hope of making the team.
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Re: Canucks Contracts

Post by Tciso »

UWSaint wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:53 pm

The comment that you think DiPietro would be better developing in Utica and playing games applies to nearly all the prospects. The 29 (or whatever) players on the team or in the taxi squad will not be the best players in the organization -- not if the player is a prospect who is not going to be a starting player.

For example, there's little to no chance a guy like Hoglander travels with the team or would make the team to be the 13th forward or whatever. Why stop him from playing hockey games; he'd be better in Utica trying to learn the North American game or in Sweden trying to master that league. As of now, he's just a decent player there -- decent players there are at BEST decent AHL players. He must develop more.

When you think about defensemen, do you want to carry Rathbone as a #7 or 8 or a taxi squad guy? No. If Rathbone makes the team, it will be earned a spot in the starting lineup. But if he doesn't? He's got a ton to learn. He's never played a pro game. Same with Woo.
I'm not convinced. I think that playing as the 13th or 14th forward would be a great fit. With a condensed schedule, players will benefit from rest days, we will also have injuries, and the bar to get into the lineup is being better than Erickson, Rooster or Sutter. On defense, we have injuries, and, yeah, oh, yeah, Jordie Benn. Rathbone and Woo should both get at least 15 games, as an eye opener.

I look at this year as the an opportunity to sort our "shit" out of the mess of Utes. For most of them, this year, and maybe next year will be their make or break, and will also determine if we have drafted our new bottom 6/4, or if we will be buying a bottom 6/4.

If players are clearly not ready, send them down. But just like -any- other season, you have to play your kids at some point. And the canucks right now have an absolute plethora of players in Utica and some good prospects still overseas/ncaa that will join Utica soon enough. This year's format is an opportunity to test all of the kids, and sift for gold. I really hope we don't shelter our Utes this season as you are suggesting. With the travel restrictions, call ups from Utica mid-season will be a real bitch.
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Re: Canucks Contracts

Post by Cousin Strawberry »

I look at Hoglanders situation this way: if the team feels he is good enough to make this squad then hes better than your average rookie being hurried into the league like Virtanen or that other dork...he would be a unique talent and this would be fucking awesome.

-fucking awesome i might add
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Re: Canucks Contracts

Post by Madcombinepilot »

Tciso wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:02 pm
and the bar to get into the lineup is being better than Erickson, Rooster or Sutter.
To think, it was only a couple years ago the bar was Megma, Chaput and Gaunce.

We have come a long way in a relatively short time.
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