Change of Ownership

[Mickey107]

Not going to quote something that (misquotes) parts of what others and myself said.
You really should get that right. It's like misrepresentation, (liable)
J/K, won't sue, this time.

Where have I misquoted you? Or anyone else for that matter?

Well, like quite a few here, I've supported this club since the start but the owners are the owners and where as you may question, ridicule, cheer, boo anything they do or don't do. Hell, you can even make out a protest sign and go on a little march in front of their offices if you desire.
What you cannot do is have a controlling say in what they do.
Unless, of course, you buy them out or they allow you to become a share holder.
But you know this, right?

Of course I know that. I'm not sure where you get the idea that I think I have any controlling say. I'm a fan of the Vancouver Canucks, same as you.

But this isn't any different than calling for the GM or coach to be fired or certain players to be traded. We (as fans) have no control over the running of the club but yet we come to boards like this one to have our say on what we like about the team and what we don't like about the team. I don't see you saying "The GM is the GM" or "the players are the players" or "the coach is the coach" in other threads. Why is this topic any different?

I posited that the current ownership group is hindering the teams ability to win it all. Their hands on approach to managing the team is a problem and they don't seem to trust the hockey people they hire to make hockey decisions. If you disagree,that's fine but you need to articulate why; "the owners are the owners" isn't an argument.

Controlling say? Mmm, must be something in your delivery.

One more wee little try;
The President, General manager, Coaches, Players, Trainers, Scouts and everyone else are "HIRED".
That would be by the Owners/ Owner and your right, that isn't an argument. It's a dead cold fact.
Business 101, remember?

[ukcanuck]

Not going to quote something that (misquotes) parts of what others and myself said.
You really should get that right. It's like misrepresentation, (liable)
J/K, won't sue, this time.

Where have I misquoted you? Or anyone else for that matter?

Well, like quite a few here, I've supported this club since the start but the owners are the owners and where as you may question, ridicule, cheer, boo anything they do or don't do. Hell, you can even make out a protest sign and go on a little march in front of their offices if you desire.
What you cannot do is have a controlling say in what they do.
Unless, of course, you buy them out or they allow you to become a share holder.
But you know this, right?

Of course I know that. I'm not sure where you get the idea that I think I have any controlling say. I'm a fan of the Vancouver Canucks, same as you.

But this isn't any different than calling for the GM or coach to be fired or certain players to be traded. We (as fans) have no control over the running of the club but yet we come to boards like this one to have our say on what we like about the team and what we don't like about the team. I don't see you saying "The GM is the GM" or "the players are the players" or "the coach is the coach" in other threads. Why is this topic any different?

I posited that the current ownership group is hindering the teams ability to win it all. Their hands on approach to managing the team is a problem and they don't seem to trust the hockey people they hire to make hockey decisions. If you disagree,that's fine but you need to articulate why; "the owners are the owners" isn't an argument.

Controlling say? Mmm, must be something in your delivery.

One more wee little try;
The President, General manager, Coaches, Players, Trainers, Scouts and everyone else are "HIRED".
That would be by the Owners/ Owner and your right, that isn't an argument. It's a dead cold fact.
Business 101, remember?

Here's another hard cold fact

If the sucks on the ice, I as a paying customer am allowed to hold everyone in the organization including and especially ownership accountable.

If it's the players and coaches. I can be specific in my wrath because I can see with my own eyes how they are not getting the job done. If it's management I have to less specific because I'm relying on less specific evidence.

If it's ownership , well the team has been in their hands for x number of years and has won as many championships as all previous incarnations of the team combined...

Any and all can draw their own conclusions.

[Strangelove]

^ Yup, most Canuck fans do not have the patience for a rebuild.

[Cornuck]

^ Yup, most Canuck fans do not have the patience for a rebuild.

We''ve been in a rebuild since 1970..... Patience isn't a problem. Seeing a Cup before I die, might be.

[ukcanuck]

^ Yup, most Canuck fans do not have the patience for a rebuild.

I think "rebuild" for some is not the same as rebuild for others.

It seems to me we already are three years into a rebuild.

And to be honest, I think way Benning is going about it is better than the job they are doing in Edmonton Toronto and Buffalo.

Sure all three
Landed the big fish through the draft but they were lucky those picks were there. It just could have easily been :

Alexandre Daigle, 1993 1st overall, Ottawa Senators. ...
Patrik Stefan, 1999 1st overall, Atlanta Thrashers. ...
Pavel Brendl, 1999 4th overall, NY Rangers. ...
Rick DiPietro, 2000 1st overall, NY Islanders. ...
Brian Lawton, 1983 1st overall, Minnesota. ...

And so far don't see how any of the three are closer to being true contenders.

In fact except for maybe Edmonton who have been perpetually rebuilding for a decade, I think the Canucks are closer.

[ukcanuck]

^ Yup, most Canuck fans do not have the patience for a rebuild.

We''ve been in a rebuild since 1970..... Patience isn't a problem. Seeing a Cup before I die, might be.

That's okay because in Valhalla the Canucks win it every year

[Hockey Widow]

I think Edmonton is a lot closer than us too. They have the goaltending now but their Achilles Heel is still D. They could use a Tanev and Edler types to augment what they have.

Toronto has suspect goaltending, no depth on D and a handful of very good offensive youngsters.

Buaffalo has good goaltending, nothing spectacular. Lack of D and like Toronto, a handful of very good offensive prospects.

What we have to pin our hopes on is the way Benning has rebuilt the team from goaltending out. That leaves us very suspect up front which we all know. But for the most part, good defensive hockey wins Cups. Not that I'm saying we area contender because we are no where near that. Like you said, we are three years into the rebuild, well 2.5'years, and in that time we have solidified goaltending and the D is coming along. We still need Tanev and Edler, that's clear but we have the depth there to keep building.

I'd love another high draft pick just because the odds increase that we get an NHLer. I have hope in Boeser and Virtanen, still. But we sure could use a sniper.

[ukcanuck]

What we have to pin our hopes on is the way Benning has rebuilt the team from goaltending out. That leaves us very suspect up front which we all know. But for the most part, good defensive hockey wins Cups. Not that I'm saying we area contender because we are no where near that. Like you said, we are three years into the rebuild, well 2.5'years, and in that time we have solidified goaltending and the D is coming along. We still need Tanev and Edler, that's clear but we have the depth there to keep building.
I'm
I'd love another high draft pick just because the odds increase that we get an NHLer. I have hope in Boeser and Virtanen, still. But we sure could use a sniper.

I agree with you that it's conventional thinking that you build a team from the goal out [even Red Army couldn't win without Tretiak) and I'm comfortable with the progress in that area with Benning and the reason I really have no problem with current ownership is they hired a conventional president who went and got a conventional GM.

I like that Aqualini are Vancouver Canucks
Fans and I don't mind that they are emotionally invested.

As for the offense and the need for a sniper...except in rare circumstances Snipers need a team around them before they can make an impact.

The thing that I usually come back to are the Sedins and the "replacement plan "


If memory serves, their rookie year they could barely skate, were physically pipe cleaners and had to play protected minutes for a long time. Looking back at the west coast express years, no one saw them as front line elite Hart trophy players.

I guess what I'm saying is that sniper is not going to make us a contender right now and by the time one will, who knows who step into that role.

Right now we have three or four rookie D who are being forged in 2-1 Hockey games against quality teams and taking shifts in OT and young guys playing with guys like Burrows who has to be an inspiration just to sit on the bench with.

[Mickey107]

I guess the problem I had with this thread, and the ongoing debate with the creator of it, is that we as fans, don't decide whether the owners get the boot.
He insists they fall under the same category as all the rest of the chain of command. They don't.
Anyways, for what it's worth, seems to me, our owners have stuck with the people they have put in place pretty well and continue to do so. In that regard, it hasn't been a circus. There was a problem with Torts and maybe some day we will find out exactly what that was.
Even after MG was fired, LG was not. Not until the new management finally did.
I really don't see as much interference and "tampering" as some portray, particularly in the media, which has a decided effect on the general public.
They really do appear to allow their employees the freedom to do their job. Having said that, nothing is forever and at some point, results have to be evaluated, no?
Have heard frustration from the coach but from his point of view, he wants more, who wouldn't.
Every coach wants better players. I understand that. WD just needs to calm down and coach "without desperation".
That's when he looks so bad. It also makes the players too edgy.

[ukcanuck]

I didn't take his poll that way at all. Logically the only way to boot the owner is to buy him out. But I think it's safe to say a lot of people wanted McCaw out back in the day.

I took the poll to mean, Is the present owner the real roadblock to success. To which I would respond I don't think he is the problem at all.

The problem is that management (and fans) were too in love with the players from 2009- 2011 and gave out too many no-trade clauses to stay under the cap.

I've said this before.
"Game 8" in Boston was the end of the road for that roster. From that point on it's been all down hill and when they were swept by LA and it was obvious that we needed to restructure the roster, the team was hamstrung.

In this regard Benning is far superior to Gillis, he gives on the money side but doesn't give out NTCS like they are signing bonuses.

In contrast are the blackhawks who after winning the cup, were able to choose who they wanted to keep and choose where and how they chopped those they didn't want.

[Chef Boi RD]

I think Edmonton is a lot closer than us too. They have the goaltending now but their Achilles Heel is still D. They could use a Tanev and Edler types to augment what they have.

Toronto has suspect goaltending, no depth on D and a handful of very good offensive youngsters.

Buaffalo has good goaltending, nothing spectacular. Lack of D and like Toronto, a handful of very good offensive prospects.

What we have to pin our hopes on is the way Benning has rebuilt the team from goaltending out. That leaves us very suspect up front which we all know. But for the most part, good defensive hockey wins Cups. Not that I'm saying we area contender because we are no where near that. Like you said, we are three years into the rebuild, well 2.5'years, and in that time we have solidified goaltending and the D is coming along. We still need Tanev and Edler, that's clear but we have the depth there to keep building.

I'd love another high draft pick just because the odds increase that we get an NHLer. I have hope in Boeser and Virtanen, still. But we sure could use a sniper.

If the Oilers haven't improved from a decade of losing, something is wrong. They are in a world of hurt when the my will have to make McDavid the highest paid player in the NHL, not good when the Canadian dollar is back to where it should be and the entire province of Alberta is in a major recession. You still have RNH, Lucic, Eberle, Klefbom are on big contracts they will need dough to sign Puljiarvi, Nurse and Draisatl not to mention fill out an entire roster to be a cup contender. I don't think the Oil are miles better than us, maybe further along in the rebuild as they should be with this current rebuild being the 4th version in over and decade of rebuilding

[Chef Boi RD]

The current 3 worst teams in the NHL - Colorado, Buffalo and the Islanders are legendary tankers filled with top lottery picks

Since 2009 the Islanders have drafted

2009 - Tavares - 1st overall
2010 - Neiderietter - 5th overall
2011 - Reinhart - 4th overall
2012 - Strome - 5th overall
2014 - DalColle - 5th overall

The success of tanking, just that easy folks! Now here they are with fellow tankers Buffalo and Colorado Competing for the first overall pick, aaaaaaaahhhhhgain. The usual suspects

[ukcanuck]

If the Oilers haven't improved from a decade of losing, something is wrong. They are in a world of hurt when the my will have to make McDavid the highest paid player in the NHL, not good when the Canadian dollar is back to where it should be and the entire province of Alberta is in a major recession. You still have RNH, Lucic, Eberle, Klefbom are on big contracts they will need dough to sign Puljiarvi, Nurse and Draisatl not to mention fill out an entire roster to be a cup contender. I don't think the Oil are miles better than us, maybe further along in the rebuild as they should be with this current rebuild being the 4th version in over and decade of rebuilding

Lucky for them there is maximum salary...

If they could trade a couple of those high priced guys for some grit and leadership with playoff experience, they feasibly could become contenders right about when they have to lock up mcdavid long term.

[ESQ]

If the Oilers haven't improved from a decade of losing, something is wrong. They are in a world of hurt when the my will have to make McDavid the highest paid player in the NHL, not good when the Canadian dollar is back to where it should be and the entire province of Alberta is in a major recession. You still have RNH, Lucic, Eberle, Klefbom are on big contracts they will need dough to sign Puljiarvi, Nurse and Draisatl not to mention fill out an entire roster to be a cup contender. I don't think the Oil are miles better than us, maybe further along in the rebuild as they should be with this current rebuild being the 4th version in over and decade of rebuilding

Draisatl and McDavid are their 2 best offensive players (funnily enough, one of those guys wasn't a first overall... ), and they're still on ELCs. With the terrible RNH/Eberle contracts setting a benchmark for first contracts in Edmonton, and Draisatl (arguably) and McDavid (certainly) being far more valuable than RNH/Eberle, Draisatl and McDavid will probably eat up over $15 million in cap two years from now.

And they have no big contracts coming off the books any time soon.

Oh yeah, and they'll probably have bonus overages this year and next.

[Mickey107]

With Bridge contracts diminishing and mega bucks being paid right after ELCs, there will be an equalizing effect over the next 3 to 5 years.
Chicago did what they felt they had to do with Panarin, and I get that. They are all in for another cup right now.
Over a period of time though, this is going to get harder.
Maybe Doc has calculated the 2 to 3 year plan with this equalization factor in effect.