Vancouver Canucks Messageboard

Blob Mckenzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:27 pm Seabrook isn’t better than Tanev and probably not better than Edler

You mean, he's not better than the #1 and #2 on the "Worst Defence in the NHL"?

ESQ wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:29 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:27 pm Seabrook isn’t better than Tanev and probably not better than Edler

You mean, he's not better than the #1 and #2 on the "Worst Defence in the NHL"?

At this stage of his career he probably isn’t.

He turns like a bus nowadays

ESQ wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:56 am Doc - with Weber, I guess we'd be on the other side of the Luongo rule? If he retires early, Nashville and Montreal get dinged for cap recapture and we don't?

Yup.

ESQ wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:56 am Makes me think the asking price on Weber would be a lot higher, but I believe in the abilities of the imaginary GMs here to get her done!

Gotta love imaginary GMs!

I thought this was quite a funny look at how the Jets (re)built a team that's looking like a contender.

Spoiler alert - the key was patience. 15 players on the roster were drafted by the organization. Only 3 minor UFA acquisitions, 4 players acquired via trade.

Of course, the flip-side to this "model" is that
(a) it took an unbelievably long time for the franchise to win its first playoff game, made the playoffs twice in 18 years, and only once in the decade prior to this season.
(b) at the end of the day, the franchise's fortunes were turned by the lucky bounce in the lottery to get Laine.

My takeaway - to get the luck to win the lottery, you gotta be bad for a looooong time.

But could you even imagine this fanbase trying to handle a Jets-style (re)build?!

Honestly, the key to most success is having a little bit of luck.

Whether it's the ability of players to stay healthy, get a slightly higher draft pick, having one of your later picks pan out and develop better than anticipated, have the puck take a bounce your way, etc.

And we are definitely due for some luck if nothing else!

Aaronp18 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:17 pm Honestly, the key to most success is having a little bit of luck.

Whether it's the ability of players to stay healthy, get a slightly higher draft pick, having one of your later picks pan out and develop better than anticipated, have the puck take a bounce your way, etc.

And we are definitely due for some luck if nothing else!

True dat!

I'd say the TSN turning points for the Jets was #1 winning the lottery for Laine, and #2 having the 2011 7th OA pick Scheifele turn into a PPG center (in his draft +6 year).

ESQ wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:38 pm

Aaronp18 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:17 pm Honestly, the key to most success is having a little bit of luck.

Whether it's the ability of players to stay healthy, get a slightly higher draft pick, having one of your later picks pan out and develop better than anticipated, have the puck take a bounce your way, etc.

And we are definitely due for some luck if nothing else!

True dat!

I'd say the TSN turning points for the Jets was #1 winning the lottery for Laine, and #2 having the 2011 7th OA pick Scheifele turn into a PPG center (in his draft +6 year).

The Jets were built with their 1st or 2nd rounders mostly, they didn't have much luck in the later rounds since 2011 sans Hellebuyck in 5th round. But most definitely having some lotto luck really brought their team up a big notch, Laine is a true game changer.

And their defense big guns were via trade - they [atlanta] jumped on Byfuglien when the Blackhawks couldn't afford to re-sign him in 2010.

Chicago Blackhawks traded Dustin Byfuglien, Ben Eager, Brent Sopel and Akim Aliu to the Atlanta Thrashers for Marty Reasoner, Jeremy Morin, Joey Crabb, a 1st and a 2nd round selection in 2010.

Blackhawks general manager Stan Bowman admitted that the deal was "simply a salary cap move."

"It's exactly what we set out to accomplish," he added. "To get some draft choices. ... There were a lot of other considerations and we're satisfied where we ended up."

Rick Dudley, who in April was promoted to general manager in Atlanta, said the deal made the Thrashers
"significantly better, immediately."

For Myers, the Jets were fortunate that Sabres Murray really wanted Kane..

The Jets sent Evander Kane, defenseman Zach Bogosian and goaltending prospect Jason Kasdorf to Buffalo for Sabres’ blueliner Tyler Myers, winger Drew Stafford, winger Joel Armia (former 2011 first-round pick/sixteenth overall), the rights to Brendan Lemieux (former 2014 second-round pick/31st overall), and a first-round pick (25th overall) in the 2015 NHL draft, which became center Jack Roslovic.

Kevin Cheveldayoff: “I’m excited about what this trade brings to our organization,”. “At the end of the day, it is a big deal, but we think it’s something that’s going to help us both in the short term and really help us in the long term.”

Murray, in the midst of a rebuilding process with the Sabres, said he knew getting Kane would be expensive. “Either you’re in and you know you’re going to pay a big price, or you’re out,” said Murray. “[Evander] is going to be a big part of any success we have here. He plays hard. He plays in traffic. He doesn’t play a perimeter game. He plays the game right.”
https://thehockeywriters.com/evander-ka ... bres-jets/

What can the Canucks take away from those deals is, use cap space & picks wisely to steal a dman that a team can't afford.

We don't really have a Kane type to make that Jets/Sabres splash, but our big trade chips are Edler and Tanev, with a couple young dmen and a lot of younger wingers.

ESQ wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:23 am But could you even imagine this fanbase trying to handle a Jets-style (re)build?!

I get a kick out of this elitist horseshit. What history of excellence should we feel entitled to?

This franchise has iced some horrible teams and the Canucks are still here.

If the fans in Vancouver are so fair weathered then they should move the franchise to Seattle.

Let's take a gander at two of the most dominant teams the last while and some of the key components of building a repeat championship contender.

1) The all-Canadian leader top center and the super skilled elite Euro #2C to give their teams a different skill set to help the attack be dominant and hard to stop, also the center's are deep and strong, also notice Yzerman and Crosby played best with a big gritty skilled LW.

2) One top tier game changer #1 DMAN and a 2nd dman who can put up mad points.

3) They have that one game changer winger.

4) Most wingers are 200ft types, you also need some mass and size on the wings, in addition to cheap scoring types, quality PKers.

5) Various depth on defense, some two-way, some defensive machines.

& a goalie on fire.

SHANAHAN-YZERMAN-Brown
Holmstrom-FEDEROV-Kozlov
McCarty-LARIONOV-LaPointe
Maltby-DRAPER-Kocur
Gilchrist-Dandenault

LIDSTROM-MURPHY
Fetisov-Konstantinov
Ward-Eriksson
Mironov-Rouse

OSGOOD


Kunitz-CROSBY-Hornqvist
Sheary-MALKIN-Guentzel
Hagelin-BONINO-KESSEL
Rust-CULLEN-Kuhnhackl/Wilson

LETANG-SCHULTZ
Cole-Maatta/Dumoulin
Streit-Hainsey

MURRAY
MAF

--
Now the other side of a championship team without a #1Dman is the 1996 and 2001 Avs, but they had the same good ol' Canadian #1C and Euro #2C, strong down the middle, but their top tier dman was a QB in 96' Ozolinsh and 01' was Blake, with Foote patrolling the D, plus goalie on fire Patty Roy, so if the Canucks don't win the lotto, the team will have to make a shrewd trade to get a top pairing dman somehow.

What components the current Canucks have to build around for the future:

____ - HORVAT - BOESER
Dahlen - PETTERSSON - Eriksson
____ - GAUDETTE - Virtanen
Leipsic - SUTTER - Granlund

____ - ____
Edler - Pouliot
JUOLEVI - Gudbranson

Marky
DEMKO

I think the Canucks forwards are pretty strong moving forward, I mean the team has those young guys set, and a few good soldiers in Utica next season in Kole Lind plus Gadjovich, maybe Gadjovich can be that Shanahan/Kunitz type LW for Horvat.
For now they could use a bit of mass up front with a guy who plays with a bit of nastiness & another quality PK guy who can score a bit.

All that's missing is that generational #1dman that's all, oh and another quality scoring dman, not too much to ask hey? *dear, Lord...*

SKYO wrote: ↑Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:57 am What components the current Canucks have to build around for the future:

____ - HORVAT - BOESER
Dahlen - PETTERSSON - Eriksson
____ - GAUDETTE - Virtanen
Leipsic - SUTTER - Granlund

____ - ____
Edler - Pouliot
JUOLEVI - Gudbranson

Marky
DEMKO

I think the Canucks forwards are pretty strong moving forward, I mean the team has those young guys set, and a few good soldiers in Utica next season in Kole Lind plus Gadjovich, maybe Gadjovich can be that Shanahan/Kunitz type LW for Horvat.
For now they could use a bit of mass up front with a guy who plays with a bit of nastiness & another quality PK guy who can score a bit.

All that's missing is that generational #1dman that's all, oh and another quality scoring dman, not too much to ask hey? *dear, Lord...*

I may be buzzed but i can see some of the flaws of what youre proposing here. First of all they're gonna have Petterson on the wing, at least until he proves himself. They'll also try to bring in a decent FA centerman to support EP and like u stated, theyll let Bo and Boeser go to it on the #1 line.

Yeah, with some decent defence and a goalie that doesnt commit to whiffing on the first shot or two each game, we might do alright.

SKYO wrote: ↑Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:47 am Now the other side of a championship team without a #1Dman is the 1996 and 2001 Avs, but they had the same good ol' Canadian #1C and Euro #2C, strong down the middle, but their top tier dman was a QB in 96' Ozolinsh and 01' was Blake, with Foote patrolling the D, plus goalie on fire Patty Roy, so if the Canucks don't win the lotto, the team will have to make a shrewd trade to get a top pairing dman somehow.

You mean Hall of Famer, Norris trophy winning, and Team Canada member Rob Blake? How does he not qualify as a number one defenceman?

Not to mention that 01 team had Ray Bourque. Maybe at the end of his career but he was still playing at a very high level back then. That D was stacked!

Pouliott in the top 4

Kunitz was big

No # 1 guy for the Avs. I guess Blake, Foote and Bourque were decent top 4 guys like Pouliott

I would honestly rather have a top line centre and let Bo carry the second line. I know he’s our heir apparent for number one centre but I think he’s better suited to the number two spot.

Hockey Widow wrote: ↑Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:30 pm I would honestly rather have a top line centre and let Bo carry the second line. I know he’s our heir apparent for number one centre but I think he’s better suited to the number two spot.

I’ve always thought this way about Bo. I think he’s the heir apparent for the captaincy, but he would be an amazing 2nd line center. Probably the best in the league.

If he could end up with a pair of elite wings though, he could be a Patrice Bergeron kind of top line guy.