Vancouver Canucks Messageboard

Madcombinepilot wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:58 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:29 am

Lancer wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:44 am I’ve heard of rumblings of discontent in Utica, with a lot of it being leveled at Cull. Apparently he’s more Tortorella than Green in his approach. Likes his gritty grinders over the skilled players.

I think if we have more rumblings and lack of progress from Benning’s picks, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Cull sacked.

The whole development system should be called into question. Other than Hughes, Petterson and Boeser who were all too good to play for Utica, who exactly has developed playing there? Adam Gaudette?

It's honestly too soon to tell. Don't confuse a 'development issue' with 'lack of talent' issue.

2 years ago, there wasn't any prospects to develop. We are just starting to see it happen now with Sautner, Brisebois, Joulevi, Mac, Lind, etc..

Now, If feel we have nothing in another year, we may have a decent argument for overhauling the system.

I’m not confusing anything. Benning has had six drafts. He’s managed to get three good youngsters onto the main team and one guy Gaudette who may or may not be good enough to play in Vancouver this year. Personally I’d throw him into the deep end and guillotine Sutter. Gaudette can’t be much worse than Birdbones. Not to beat a dead horse but keeping the extra 2nds and 3rds in 14/15/16 might have actually produced a couple more kids that came up through Utica.

Hes hit 3 home runs blob (its safe to assume Hughes counts as a homer)

Theyre all tip top talents and I'm pretty fuckin happy with the overall body of his draft day work in those 6 years. If you add premium assets like that rather than a bunch of safe but average pieces(base hits, doubles)...youre winning at drafting

This is the most optimistic ive been as a canucks fan since 1992-1995

Uncle dans leg wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:15 pm Hes hit 3 home runs blob (its safe to assume Hughes counts as a homer)

Theyre all tip top talents and I'm pretty fuckin happy with the overall body of his draft day work in those 6 years. If you add premium assets like that rather than a bunch of safe but average pieces....youre winning at drafting

This is the most optimistic ive been as a canucks fan since 1992-1995

I’ve already acknowledged the big 3. But after that not a single regular. That speaks to the depth of the pipeline and the development or lack thereof. Again hoarding picks is smarter than puking them away for waiver wire type talent. Elmer seems to have finally clued in to that

Blob Mckenzie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:10 pm

Madcombinepilot wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:58 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:29 am

Lancer wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:44 am I’ve heard of rumblings of discontent in Utica, with a lot of it being leveled at Cull. Apparently he’s more Tortorella than Green in his approach. Likes his gritty grinders over the skilled players.

I think if we have more rumblings and lack of progress from Benning’s picks, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Cull sacked.

The whole development system should be called into question. Other than Hughes, Petterson and Boeser who were all too good to play for Utica, who exactly has developed playing there? Adam Gaudette?

It's honestly too soon to tell. Don't confuse a 'development issue' with 'lack of talent' issue.

2 years ago, there wasn't any prospects to develop. We are just starting to see it happen now with Sautner, Brisebois, Joulevi, Mac, Lind, etc..

Now, If feel we have nothing in another year, we may have a decent argument for overhauling the system.

I’m not confusing anything. Benning has had six drafts. He’s managed to get three good youngsters onto the main team and one guy Gaudette who may or may not be good enough to play in Vancouver this year. Personally I’d throw him into the deep end and guillotine Sutter. Gaudette can’t be much worse than Birdbones. Not to beat a dead horse but keeping the extra 2nds and 3rds in 14/15/16 might have actually produced a couple more kids that came up through Utica.

You are confused. We are not talking about draft picks.

We were all talking about the development system of prospects and Cull. Not about draft picks. I get they are related, but Cull has only been there a couple years. If the system is broken (by your logic) it doesn't matter how many other picks Benning had, only those who didn't go to Utica would have a chance. I don't think the development system is broken. Virtanen and Demko came through when there wasnt anyone else. It's simply too soon to say...

With the prospects down there now, we can properly assess what's happening.



... and a side note: Benning was obviously operating under a different set of guidelines from ownership when the Sedins were here. They are different eras. Stop comparing them.

Plus, they already have 2nd and 3rd rounders developing well in college in Madden and Lockwood.

Not every pick is going to have to toil for years in Utica. Some never play a minor league game, some play only a handful. Some are only there due to roster and contract situations.

A steady stream of draft picks that plays NHL games regardless of how they get here is impressive. We're finally seeing it with this regime.

A look back 2 years ago. The hirling of Trent Cull; https://thecanuckway.com/2017/06/29/van ... ead-coach/

I guess we should give it a chance. By October, he should have a pretty good team...

Hank wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:34 pm Plus, they already have 2nd and 3rd rounders developing well in college in Madden and Lockwood.

Not every pick is going to have to toil for years in Utica. Some never play a minor league game, some play only a handful. Some are only there due to roster and contract situations.

A steady stream of draft picks that plays NHL games regardless of how they get here is impressive. We're finally seeing it with this regime.

Woo
Madden
Hoglander
Podkozlin
Lockwood
Juolevi
Focht
DiPietro
Tryamkin
Rathbone
Lind
Gadjovich
MacEwan
Teves
Rafferty
Keilly
Thiessen
Utunen

The pool hasn’t looked this good in a long, long time, since the Burke/Nonis days. Not bad when you consider how young Petterson, Boeser, Hughes, Horvat, Virtanen, Gaudette, Demko are.

The future looks bright, I gotta wear shades

Madcombinepilot wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:31 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:10 pm

Madcombinepilot wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:58 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:29 am

Lancer wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:44 am I’ve heard of rumblings of discontent in Utica, with a lot of it being leveled at Cull. Apparently he’s more Tortorella than Green in his approach. Likes his gritty grinders over the skilled players.

I think if we have more rumblings and lack of progress from Benning’s picks, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Cull sacked.

The whole development system should be called into question. Other than Hughes, Petterson and Boeser who were all too good to play for Utica, who exactly has developed playing there? Adam Gaudette?

It's honestly too soon to tell. Don't confuse a 'development issue' with 'lack of talent' issue.

2 years ago, there wasn't any prospects to develop. We are just starting to see it happen now with Sautner, Brisebois, Joulevi, Mac, Lind, etc..

Now, If feel we have nothing in another year, we may have a decent argument for overhauling the system.

I’m not confusing anything. Benning has had six drafts. He’s managed to get three good youngsters onto the main team and one guy Gaudette who may or may not be good enough to play in Vancouver this year. Personally I’d throw him into the deep end and guillotine Sutter. Gaudette can’t be much worse than Birdbones. Not to beat a dead horse but keeping the extra 2nds and 3rds in 14/15/16 might have actually produced a couple more kids that came up through Utica.

You are confused. We are not talking about draft picks.

We were all talking about the development system of prospects and Cull. Not about draft picks. I get they are related, but Cull has only been there a couple years. If the system is broken (by your logic) it doesn't matter how many other picks Benning had, only those who didn't go to Utica would have a chance. I don't think the development system is broken. Virtanen and Demko came through when there wasnt anyone else. It's simply too soon to say...

With the prospects down there now, we can properly assess what's happening.



... and a side note: Benning was obviously operating under a different set of guidelines from ownership when the Sedins were here. They are different eras. Stop comparing them.

Pretty sure you’re puzzled. Draft picks become prospects which become kids which go through the development system. MORE good kids = more kids that have a legit opportunity to become NHL players. Either way the lack of depth in the system and the lack of development are issues.

Nobody is comparing eras and guidelines. Talk about a red herring.

Hank wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:34 pm Plus, they already have 2nd and 3rd rounders developing well in college in Madden and Lockwood.

Not every pick is going to have to toil for years in Utica. Some never play a minor league game, some play only a handful. Some are only there due to roster and contract situations.

A steady stream of draft picks that plays NHL games regardless of how they get here is impressive. We're finally seeing it with this regime.

Four guys in six years is a steady stream. Ok then

It can always be better but it could also be worse

Swedes say Lagom.

If you say it in the bathroom mirror 5 times Per appears and tells you about how much better it is in the EU

Blob Mckenzie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:49 pm

Hank wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:34 pm Plus, they already have 2nd and 3rd rounders developing well in college in Madden and Lockwood.

Not every pick is going to have to toil for years in Utica. Some never play a minor league game, some play only a handful. Some are only there due to roster and contract situations.

A steady stream of draft picks that plays NHL games regardless of how they get here is impressive. We're finally seeing it with this regime.

Four guys in six years is a steady stream. Ok then

No matter which round, draft picks who graduate to play NHL games each and every season is impressive.

Jake, McCann, Demko, Tryamkin, Forsling, Gaudette, Boeser, Pettersson, Hughes. Juolevi would have had NHL games if he didn't get injured.

Not only playing NHL games, but being key contributors.

That is a rather good list so far and the odds of Woo, Madden, Podkolzin, Hoglander playing NHL games soon are pretty much certain.

When has any Canuck regime done that in a 6 year span? I'm sure the Canucks have been in the top half of NHL teams to do that during the same timeline.

I keep forgeting about podzkozlin. Its entirely possible for the russian kid to come out that draft year as one of the best picks of his class. The kid has gamebreaker talent.

No team is perfect at drafting but as discussed recently in another thread, finding elite talent instead of taking the safe picks can make or break a team. Thatll end up being elmers legacy

Blob Mckenzie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:48 pm
Draft picks become prospects which become kids which go through the development system. MORE good kids = more kids that have a legit opportunity to become NHL players. Either way the lack of depth in the system and the lack of development are issues.

This is right. For, well, over 13 / 14 years, the Canucks have done plenty of trading pro players for pro players.
They haven't done much trading pro players for "high" picks, hence, lack of depth.
We're not the only ones, of course.
There is no doubt in my mind that our current owners and the ones before that, (Orca Bay), have not shown the wisdom and long term patience
to keep the product on an on going evolutionary pattern.
We're not the only ones, of course.

There is always pressure from the fan base. They want a name player. A pick is boring and doesn't do anything in the here and now.
The media, for the most part, reflect what the fans are clamoring about because that is how they make their money. So, don't trust
what they say, mmm?

In short; It's fucking hard.

micky107 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:30 pm ...long term patients...

....It's fucking hard.

*Mick looking around the care home for the right words

Uncle dans leg wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:40 pm

micky107 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:30 pm ...long term patients...

....It's fucking hard.

*Mick looking around the care home for the right words