Canucks Young Guns

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Curmudgeon
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by Curmudgeon »

Mëds wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:59 pm
Curmudgeon wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:51 am
Doyle Hargraves wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:52 am Yeah... do you want 24 year old elite skater Jake scoring 20/20 playing 13 min a night making 2.5 million? Or 28 year old Toffoli lumbering around at 5.5 million on a long term deal barely cracking 50 points?

Savings of 3 million to improve the roster in other areas.
I was looking at it from a top six and bottom six perspective and even though RW is a position of strength for them, there's still plenty of uncertainty.

Toffoli, Boeser, and Podkolzin are top six players but as you say, Toffoli is 28 and already not the greatest skater and could very well bolt back to LA as a UFA anyway, Boeser isn't worth his qualifying offer if it was due today, and Podkolzin isn't coming for another season. Now, can they get Virtenen to consistently perform in the top six in the event they lose Toffoli and/or move Boeser before they have to qualify him?

Virtanen, MacEwen, and Motte as of today are the bottom six choices with Virtanen being a 5 year pro and still not having his shit together, MacEwen appearing ready for full-time 3rd line duty providing the pugnacity, testosterone, truculence and belligerence the team is sorely lacking, and Motte is an RFA but a key one IMO. Then there's Lind developing decently in Utica. To me MacEwen and Motte are ideal for those bottom six spots, especially if Virtanen can't get his act together and learn to be better defensively and hopefully kill penalties. Plus Virtanen does have value around the league if they move on from him or he's a sweetener.
Classic homerism. Podkolzin hasn't played a single game in the NHL. We like what we've seen in junior and the KHL, but far to early to count our chickens there. Remember everyone salivating over the coming of Tree? We all know how that worked out. For every superstar Russian in the NHL there are at least 2 who come highly touted but completely bust.
It's not homerism, Podkolzin was ranked in the top handful of players most of his draft year, was drafted at 10, and is steadily tracking to be a top 6 player. The Canucks would love to have his size and playing style in the lineup next season at 19 if he was available to them.

Why would you use Tryamkin, of all guys, as a comparable? Different position and was almost 20 when drafted in the 3rd round after being completely passed over in a previous draft. I'm a Tryamkin fan and think he can comfortably play bottom pairing and kill penalties for the Canucks and that's a big win for a 3rd round pick but not at all a reasonable comparable to Podkolzin.
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by rats19 »

Curmudgeon wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:35 am
Mëds wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:59 pm
Curmudgeon wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:51 am
Doyle Hargraves wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:52 am Yeah... do you want 24 year old elite skater Jake scoring 20/20 playing 13 min a night making 2.5 million? Or 28 year old Toffoli lumbering around at 5.5 million on a long term deal barely cracking 50 points?

Savings of 3 million to improve the roster in other areas.
I was looking at it from a top six and bottom six perspective and even though RW is a position of strength for them, there's still plenty of uncertainty.

Toffoli, Boeser, and Podkolzin are top six players but as you say, Toffoli is 28 and already not the greatest skater and could very well bolt back to LA as a UFA anyway, Boeser isn't worth his qualifying offer if it was due today, and Podkolzin isn't coming for another season. Now, can they get Virtenen to consistently perform in the top six in the event they lose Toffoli and/or move Boeser before they have to qualify him?

Virtanen, MacEwen, and Motte as of today are the bottom six choices with Virtanen being a 5 year pro and still not having his shit together, MacEwen appearing ready for full-time 3rd line duty providing the pugnacity, testosterone, truculence and belligerence the team is sorely lacking, and Motte is an RFA but a key one IMO. Then there's Lind developing decently in Utica. To me MacEwen and Motte are ideal for those bottom six spots, especially if Virtanen can't get his act together and learn to be better defensively and hopefully kill penalties. Plus Virtanen does have value around the league if they move on from him or he's a sweetener.
Classic homerism. Podkolzin hasn't played a single game in the NHL. We like what we've seen in junior and the KHL, but far to early to count our chickens there. Remember everyone salivating over the coming of Tree? We all know how that worked out. For every superstar Russian in the NHL there are at least 2 who come highly touted but completely bust.
It's not homerism, Podkolzin was ranked in the top handful of players most of his draft year, was drafted at 10, and is steadily tracking to be a top 6 player. The Canucks would love to have his size and playing style in the lineup next season at 19 if he was available to them.

Why would you use Tryamkin, of all guys, as a comparable? Different position and was almost 20 when drafted in the 3rd round after being completely passed over in a previous draft. I'm a Tryamkin fan and think he can comfortably play bottom pairing and kill penalties for the Canucks and that's a big win for a 3rd round pick but not at all a reasonable comparable to Podkolzin.
I’m with curmudgeon on this one Mëds
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by Cousin Strawberry »

Mëds is pissed cuz Pod has grown to 6'4 almost as fast as Mëds did growing to 6'11 after the parachuting in for the game incident

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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by mr perfect »

theman wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:17 am
The Brown Wizard wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:14 am
Doyle Hargraves wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:46 am
1984-1988. EASILY the darkest time to ever be a Vancouver Canucks fan. It really isn’t close.
Ya those days were absolutely brutal. Gretzky Kurri Messier used the pacific coliseum as a cum dumpster...

Its no wonder Corny is so irrationally pissed at shit
Agree, it is because of those days that I have no sympathy for the Flames or Oilers, absolutely zero sympathy for those franchises or their fan base.
Always interesting to note the Vancouver connection which helped both Alberta cities get into the NHL. Frank Griffiths advocated hard getting the WHA teams to merge with the NHL while Toronto and Montreal again didn't want more teams in Canada because they didn't want to share HNiC revenue. It took a western boycott of Molson products to get Les Canadiens ownership to rethink their position in getting the Oilers and the Jets into the NHL. Then along came scam artist Nelson Skalbania buying the Alanta Flames and moving them to Calgary. Skalbania was instrumental in the Oilers getting Gretzky by selling him to the WHA Oilers. I wonder what would have happened had he sold number 99 to Winnipeg, would the Jets have had multiple Stanley Cups and the Oilers might have relocated?
So no, I don't feel any pity for the Alberta teams' current woes. The Oilers got to start in the NHL with an 18 year Gretzky on their roster and the next season Calgary got a full NHL ready roster thanks to the work of two Vancouver natives. Better than anything Vancouver started with.
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by Madcombinepilot »

Doyle Hargraves wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:46 am
Madcombinepilot wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:30 pm
nuckster wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:19 pm
Doyle Hargraves wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:06 pm
Madcombinepilot wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:17 am
Doyle Hargraves wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:52 am Yeah... do you want 24 year old elite skater Jake scoring 20/20 playing 13 min a night making 2.5 million? Or 28 year old Toffoli lumbering around at 5.5 million on a long term deal barely cracking 50 points?

Savings of 3 million to improve the roster in other areas.
Blob, compare apples to apples.

I am talking about a 3rd line guy, your talking top 6 at twice the price.

2 - 2.5 million for a 3rd line guy playing 13 minute and getting 18-20 goals is a good deal.

Look past the name on the jersey ffs.
Not sure what jersey names have to do with anything.

You don’t have to sell me on Jake. I’m not with the pitchfork outfit that wants to run him out of town. A lot of those same posters want Toffoli back on a long term expensive deal. That’s the comparison and bang for buck per player I was making.

I still think Jake has more to give and his potential salary shouldn’t be a problem.

I also agree with the line of thinking that a good team needs a good top 9, as opposed to a top six, middle six. I just don’t want to put our best left winger who has great chemistry with our best player btw, centering another scoring line. Miller is far more effective on the wing and he’d leave a gaping hole on the left side.
I'm just jumping into this from the 'netherland' amongst the mon to fri slaves of the work-week.

Judging from how JB spoke about Virts, I'm inclined to think that Virts might be up for a trade; and ole JB has to shed some shitty contracts... like L.E.

I think JB wants to keep Demko for awhile too. - a valuable trade chip one way or another in the future.

Its all good. The shitty "Linden Vey Days" are behind us now :crazy:
Linden Vey, Emerson Etem, Brendan Gaunce, etc (and it’s a LOT of etc)... perhaps the second darkest time in our history behind the ‘Darkdays of Messier.
1984-1988. EASILY the darkest time to ever be a Vancouver Canucks fan. It really isn’t close.

My simmering overzealous hatred of all things Messier get in the way of simple things like facts. Leave it be I am having an eternal moment.
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

Lol at a Nelson Skalbania reference. What a snake oil salesman if there ever was. What’s next Horn Chen, Bruce McNall? Scumbags one and all.

The mid 80s for young Canucks fans was toxic. Pat Quinn resurrected this franchise before he again drove it into the toilet. What a fuckshow. You can’t make this shit up.
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by Megaterio Llamas »

Just checking the transactions wire lately you can't help but notice other teams are finding places in Europe to play for their best young players in the absence of an AHL option. You'd like to think Benning has this situation mapped out for our kids, but, so far nada...
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

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Megaterio Llamas wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:28 pm Just checking the transactions wire lately you can't help but notice other teams are finding places in Europe to play for their best young players in the absence of an AHL option. You'd like to think Benning has this situation mapped out for our kids, but, so far nada...
That we know of. Our local press isn't always on top of things. Jake maybe. :blush: We have two there, three if you include Tramp.
Your talking about regular Comets and Comets to be. Without set time-lines for return to play in NA and with a full compliment of players in the best leagues, (teams), in Europe playing with contract already, Going to take some arm twisting.

Per; What do you think? Is this feasible?
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by Megaterio Llamas »

Micky wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:41 pm
Megaterio Llamas wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:28 pm Just checking the transactions wire lately you can't help but notice other teams are finding places in Europe to play for their best young players in the absence of an AHL option. You'd like to think Benning has this situation mapped out for our kids, but, so far nada...
That we know of. Our local press isn't always on top of things. Jake maybe. :blush: We have two there, three if you include Tramp.
Your talking about regular Comets and Comets to be. Without set time-lines for return to play in NA and with a full compliment of players in the best leagues, (teams), in Europe playing with contract already, Going to take some arm twisting.

Per; What do you think? Is this feasible?
It'd be cool if the Sedins could persuade MoDo to open up a spot for Mikey DiPietro, he's a great prospect and really needs to play. Jasek and Hoglander are covered but you'd hate to see the likes of Woo, Lind, Rathbone, Gadjovich, and Rafferty sitting for prolonged periods. Check the transactions pages the past couple of weeks, NHL teams are moving on this and spots are being filled. Euro league fans like Per will be in for a good early season I think.
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by Per »

Megaterio Llamas wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:58 pm
Micky wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:41 pm
Megaterio Llamas wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:28 pm Just checking the transactions wire lately you can't help but notice other teams are finding places in Europe to play for their best young players in the absence of an AHL option. You'd like to think Benning has this situation mapped out for our kids, but, so far nada...
That we know of. Our local press isn't always on top of things. Jake maybe. :blush: We have two there, three if you include Tramp.
Your talking about regular Comets and Comets to be. Without set time-lines for return to play in NA and with a full compliment of players in the best leagues, (teams), in Europe playing with contract already, Going to take some arm twisting.

Per; What do you think? Is this feasible?
It'd be cool if the Sedins could persuade MoDo to open up a spot for Mikey DiPietro, he's a great prospect and really needs to play. Jasek and Hoglander are covered but you'd hate to see the likes of Woo, Lind, Rathbone, Gadjovich, and Rafferty sitting for prolonged periods. Check the transactions pages the past couple of weeks, NHL teams are moving on this and spots are being filled. Euro league fans like Per will be in for a good early season I think.
Well... the SHL has decided to ban short term rentals from the NHL. Players that played in the SHL last season canstay on with their teams until the NHL starts, so Höglander is doing just that, but players who played in the NHL or AHL last season cannot join an SHL team, unless they sign on for the whole season.

Hockeyallsvenskan though (aka the SHA) originally was open to the concept, but as more and more players were announced an emergency meeting was called and it was decided to limit the number of short term contracts with NHL/AHL players to four per team. This means that there may still be openings, but teams may be a bit picky about who to take on if there could be better players available.

These are the short term contracts that I know of so far:

AIK
Victor Söderström, defence, Arizona Coyotes
Oliver Wahlstrom, forward ,New York Islanders

Almtuna
Gustav Lindström, defence, Detroit Red Wings
Johan Södergran, forward, Los Angeles Kings
Tim Söderlund, forward, Chicago Blackhawks
Filip Larsson, goalie, Detroit Red Wings

Björklöven
Carl Grundström, forward, Arizona Coyotes
Oskar Steen, forward, Boston Bruins

Modo
Jesper Lindgren, defence, Pittsburgh Penguins
Aleksi Heponiemi, forward, Florida Panthers

Södertälje
Axel Andersson, defence, Anaheim Ducks
Samuel Fagemo, forward, Los Angeles Kings
Lukas Vejdemo, forward, Montreal Canadiens
Evan Bouchard, defence, Edmonton Oilers

Tingsryd
David Gustafsson, forward Winnipeg Jets

Vita Hästen
Simon Holmström, forward, New York Islanders

Oh, and as you may notice, most players have a connection to Sweden and often even a local tie.
As eg Carl Grundström who was raised through Björklöven’s youth programme and now returns home.
David Gustafsson hails from Tingsryd, etc.

Anyway, at the end of the season, the team from Hockeyallsvenskan that wins the playoffs will be promoted to the SHL. If you already have the two goalies you plan to play with, why bench one of them so that some player that will not be around for the playoffs can get some ice time? Doesn’t make sense, unless one of your two best goalies has a minor injury to nurse.
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Megaterio Llamas
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by Megaterio Llamas »

Thanks for the detailed info Per. I guess Sweden isn't going to be much of an option then, though I would still kind of like to see Mikey in MoDo for some reason :D

Still, I do hope Benning is making calls on this because an AHL season seems doubtful without fans in the stands.
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by Mickey107 »

Thanks, Per.. Not surprised. Guess there was some temptation but the keeping the integrity of the normal process is right, IMO, for Sweden.

There are other countries and leagues that may benefit though. Finland, Switzerland. Germany, Holland. Getting competitive ice-time
is crucial. Whatever it takes to keep the prospects, journeymen>>also very important parts of an organization, skating and keeping their heads in the game.
I hope the AHL can get up and running, but it wont be by January. Not as an entire league anyways. Sucks.
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by Todd Bersnoozi »

Interesting that Podz, Hoggy and Tryamkin are already playing in their respective leagues. I wonder if there's any fans in the stands?
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by Megaterio Llamas »

Todd Bersnoozi wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:53 pm Interesting that Podz, Hoggy and Tryamkin are already playing in their respective leagues. I wonder if there's any fans in the stands?
Probably. I don't think Sweden and Russia are doing the full crisis plague thing.
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by rats19 »

Megaterio Llamas wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:00 pm
Todd Bersnoozi wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:53 pm Interesting that Podz, Hoggy and Tryamkin are already playing in their respective leagues. I wonder if there's any fans in the stands?
Probably. I don't think Sweden and Russia are doing the full crisis plague thing.
Heck Vladimir has a vaccine :wink:
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