Canucks Young Guns

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Doyle Hargraves
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by Doyle Hargraves » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:59 pm

Yes having seen him play I can tell he’s a poor skater.

Your links aren’t making him any faster
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micky107
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by micky107 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:59 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:59 pm
Yes having seen him play I can tell he’s a poor skater.

Your links aren’t making him any faster

Career stats; http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdis ... pid=123279

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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by ESQ » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:08 pm

rikster wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:41 pm

One of the players who has stood out for me this post season is Josh Anderson in Columbus and when you look at his career its very similar to Zach MacKewan's, who is 2 years younger, minus the NHL....

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/josh-anderson

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/zack-macewen
That can't be right, somebody said players who don't produce in the AHL don't become productive NHL players, and Anderson has 17 points in his first AHL (draft+3) season.

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DonCherry4PM
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by DonCherry4PM » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:52 pm

Somebody also said (or implied) something along the lines of: skilled, high-end players aren’t developed in the AHL.

:lol:

If Zac develops into a player like Anderson, I think we would all be quite happy despite what anyone said.
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by Per » Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:45 am

DonCherry4PM wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:52 pm
Somebody also said (or implied) something along the lines of: skilled, high-end players aren’t developed in the AHL.
That must have been Jonathan Dahlén. ;)
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by Doyle Hargraves » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:24 am

ESQ wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:08 pm
rikster wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:41 pm

One of the players who has stood out for me this post season is Josh Anderson in Columbus and when you look at his career its very similar to Zach MacKewan's, who is 2 years younger, minus the NHL....

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/josh-anderson

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/zack-macewen
That can't be right, somebody said players who don't produce in the AHL don't become productive NHL players, and Anderson has 17 points in his first AHL (draft+3) season.
They generally don’t. And I think the quote was more along the lines of they don’t become top 6 forwards.

You could probably count the guys on one hand over the last 20 years who don’t produce in the AHL that magically become top 6ers.

Then again some posters also thought Matt Tkachuk was only a marginally better player than Jake Virtanen. I mean what’s the difference between 77 points and 25?
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by Chef Boi RD » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:51 am

It’s not unusual for skilled players to struggle in the AHL due to a lack of likeminded skilled players but excel in the NHL for that reason. Analytics at the AHL level is waste of time when career minor leaguers like Boucher are superstars in that league but useless at the nhl level. I also don’t understand the organizational mentality of giving players like Boucher the best minutes, it’s supposed to be a Developmental league but I guess not anymore.
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by rikster » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:11 am

RoyalDude wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:51 am
It’s not unusual for skilled players to struggle in the AHL due to a lack of likeminded skilled players but excel in the NHL for that reason. Analytics at the AHL level is waste of time when career minor leaguers like Boucher are superstars in that league but useless at the nhl level. I also don’t understand the organizational mentality of giving players like Boucher the best minutes, it’s supposed to be a Developmental league but I guess not anymore.
Your contradicting yourself....

You don't agree with giving a skilled player like Boucher quality minutes on the farm, but are willing to write off the skilled player who doesn't get quality minutes at the NHL level....

And Goldy was given quality minutes while the same can't be said about Boucher's minutes in Vancouver...

Anyways, my point was that while the angst has been over Goldy, if anything it should have been over Boucher not getting a chance the entire year ...

Two players with similar flaws, but maybe the biggest weakness in Goldy's game is that he doesn't have a NHL shot while Boucher has an above average NHL shot which would be more productive playing on Pettersson's wing than what Goldy was able to do..

Take care..

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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by Tciso » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:16 am

rikster wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:11 am

Anyways, my point was that while the angst has been over Goldy, if anything it should have been over Boucher not getting a chance the entire year ...

Two players with similar flaws, but maybe the biggest weakness in Goldy's game is that he doesn't have a NHL shot while Boucher has an above average NHL shot which would be more productive playing on Pettersson's wing than what Goldy was able to do..

Take care..
Boucher has had a few shots at the NHL. He simply does not have it. He is "average" at so many things, and his one strength is his shot. One of his biggest weaknesses is that his shot is slow to get off, and he sucks at making time and space. So, what we see is a great shot once in a while, and a whole lot of him being checked too tightly to generate offense. The AHL has sloppier defense, so we don't see the glaring holes in his game down there, but he is exposed in the NHL.
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by rikster » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:06 am

Boucher has had a few shots at the NHL. He simply does not have it. He is "average" at so many things, and his one strength is his shot. One of his biggest weaknesses is that his shot is slow to get off, and he sucks at making time and space. So, what we see is a great shot once in a while, and a whole lot of him being checked too tightly to generate offense. The AHL has sloppier defense, so we don't see the glaring holes in his game down there, but he is exposed in the NHL.
The NHL game is an easier game to play, especially for skilled players...

At any level, when you are the teams best scorer the game is harder to play than when you are not the focus of the opposition...Especially when you play on a team that does not score a lot....

Boucher broke Stamkos goal scoring record in Sarnia when he scored 62 goals in 68 games...

Over the last 2 seasons in Utica, he has scored 56 goals and 108 points in 101 games...

By comparison, Goldobin scored 9 goals and 31 points in his last 30 games in the AHL...

The point I was making is that the local media and some fans infatuation with Goldobin is misplaced....

That if the local media want to create an issue with management over player usage, they would have had a better case if they had chosen Boucher to be the player they used...

Do I think Boucher should have been given an opportunity to play on Pettersson's line instead of Goldobin....Yes I do, especially when you analyze the stats over the players careers....

Take care...

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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by ESQ » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:02 am

DonCherry4PM wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:52 pm
Somebody also said (or implied) something along the lines of: skilled, high-end players aren’t developed in the AHL.

:lol:

If Zac develops into a player like Anderson, I think we would all be quite happy despite what anyone said.
Hm no there still must be a mistake, because somebody also said power forwards taking longer to develop is a myth, but "according" to the "stats, Anderson didn't make an impact at the NHL level until draft+5 year, when he had 29 points, and didn't get over 20 goals until draft+7.

We'll have to get to the bottom of this. :mex: :lol:

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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by Doyle Hargraves » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:36 am

Lol at Virtanen being referred to as a power forward.

I guess Lindros, Shanahan, Lucic, Tkachuk x 3... Neely scores 36 goals before 22. Rick Tocchet, Wendel Clark all took so long to develop as all power forwards do


:lol: bottom gotten to :lol:
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by Madcombinepilot » Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:00 pm

The point I was making is that the local media and some fans infatuation with Goldobin is misplaced....
that happens a lot here.. See Gaunce.
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by SKYO » Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:18 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:36 am
Lol at Virtanen being referred to as a power forward.

I guess Lindros, Shanahan, Lucic, Tkachuk x 3... Neely scores 36 goals before 22. Rick Tocchet, Wendel Clark all took so long to develop as all power forwards do


:lol: bottom gotten to :lol:
I know right, better trade JV while people still believe that.
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by Doyle Hargraves » Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:19 pm

Kinda like people’s infatuation with spending 10-15 million on a 4th line 8-) :lol:
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