The Great Jim Benning Debate! (And personal insult thread)

[Blob Mckenzie]

One non move and one crappy trade by two different GMs and the Canucks could have a pretty elite defence.

Eye Bags drafting Shea Theodore instead of Hunter Shinkaruk. Theodore was right under our noses in the Fraser Valley.

Ignitowski trading a second round pick for Sven Baertschi. Imagine if Benning liked Rasmus Andersson in that spot and picked him.

Hughes Tanev
Theodore Andersson
Edler Myers

[Blob Mckenzie]

Miller is only 26. You’re getting a lot more hockey out of this guy not to mention when he becomes a UFA at 29 he will guarantee get you a top asset in return. We may not be able to afford Miller’s UFA retirement contract but we have Podkolzin coming who by all accounts is another version of JT Miller

And how old will Podkolzin be when Miller is a UFA?

*checks abacus*
Oh yes, 24, in the last year of his ELC. Same age Miller was when we acquired him.

Almost looks like a pipeline of prospects, do you think that was intentional?

Podkolzin will be 22 when Miller goes UFA. Miller was 26 when we acquired him not 24. He’s 27 now.

[Chef Boi RD]

Miller is only 26. You’re getting a lot more hockey out of this guy not to mention when he becomes a UFA at 29 he will guarantee get you a top asset in return. We may not be able to afford Miller’s UFA retirement contract but we have Podkolzin coming who by all accounts is another version of JT Miller

And how old will Podkolzin be when Miller is a UFA?

*checks abacus*
Oh yes, 24, in the last year of his ELC. Same age Miller was when we acquired him.

Almost looks like a pipeline of prospects, do you think that was intentional?

Podkolzin will be 22 when Miller goes UFA. Miller was 26 when we acquired him not 24. He’s 27 now.

JT Miller has 3 years left on his contract. He will have just turned 30 in March when those 3 years is up so um yeah I guess he passed 29 by 3 months. YUGE!

We will be getting Podkolzin for the final 2 years of Miller’s contract. Really can’t wait until we have Pod and Miller playing together for 2 years but who knows, if we don’t trade Miller for a great asset we can resign him. There isn’t any reason why he can’t play another excellent 4-5 years of hockey after just turning 30?

[Richardstroker69]

Miller is only 26. You’re getting a lot more hockey out of this guy not to mention when he becomes a UFA at 29 he will guarantee get you a top asset in return. We may not be able to afford Miller’s UFA retirement contract but we have Podkolzin coming who by all accounts is another version of JT Miller

And how old will Podkolzin be when Miller is a UFA?

*checks abacus*
Oh yes, 24, in the last year of his ELC. Same age Miller was when we acquired him.

Almost looks like a pipeline of prospects, do you think that was intentional?

Podkolzin will be 22 when Miller goes UFA. Miller was 26 when we acquired him not 24. He’s 27 now.

JT Miller has 3 years left on his contract. He will have just turned 30 in March when those 3 years is up so um yeah I guess he passed 29 by 3 months. YUGE!

We will be getting Podkolzin for the final 2 years of Miller’s contract. Really can’t wait until we have Pod and Miller playing together for 2 years but who knows, if we don’t trade Miller for a great asset we can resign him. There isn’t any reason why he can’t play another excellent 4-5 years of hockey after just turning 30?

Miller is the type of guy that should age fairly well, super high hockey iq that doesn’t rely on speed but motor and strength.

[Ronning's Ghost]

One non move and one crappy trade by two different GMs and the Canucks could have a pretty elite defence.

Eye Bags drafting Shea Theodore instead of Hunter Shinkaruk. Theodore was right under our noses in the Fraser Valley.

Ignitowski trading a second round pick for Sven Baertschi. Imagine if Benning liked Rasmus Andersson in that spot and picked him.

Hughes Tanev
Theodore Andersson
Edler Myers

The 'Canuck draft history If Only' thread would be a very long and sad one.

Staying only with Benning drafts (since it's his thread), the Canucks have a much better defence if Benning likes Sergachev or McAvoy better than Juolevi, and/or Sanheim or DeAngelo better than Virtanen. (I admit that latter pick would have required gigantic cojones.)

But few of the replies to my post mentioned the defence, so I guess most posters here aren't worried about it. I don't follow the development of the prospects; maybe Woo is on track to be a real beauty. We'll see.

[Ronning's Ghost]

Miller's contributions also bumped that 1st round pick from a top 10 lottery pick to the #20 pick. (oops, I forgot about the 3rd rounder, and Marek MaSparePart - still a cheap trade.)

That was actually part of the point. Because Miller made the team better, the Canucks' 2020 draft pick isn't as good. So while Miller made the 2020 Canucks better, at this point it looks to me like he is making the 2024 Canucks (close to peak years of the new core) worse.

And that's why I'm still questioning the Miller Trade. Not that it wasn't good value, but that the timing was wrong.

I can’t believe people would still question the Miller trade. It’s a win now and going forward.
Right now if they traded Miller they could get back a first round pick, a very good prospect, and a good NHL player at minimum.
If all you are worried about are assets (like draft picks), the trade was great asset management, a clear win.
In hindsight, any GM in the league would be a complete idiot not to make that trade.
Of course, the Canucks won’t trade Miller away because he is too hard to replace. However, the value of the assets trading him away could bring back going forward would be an important contributor by the time the new core is at its peak, if he, himself is no longer with the team.

If Benning actually pulled a pump 'n' dump on Miller, he'd take a step closer to genius in my books. But as you say, he likely won't, so we can talk about it if it happens.

I suspect Benning was told that the Canucks really shouldn't suck for the 50th anniversary season, and he had to do what he could about it. It was a fun playoff run, and I'm sure we all enjoyed it. Reflect on this and see if it gives you comfort if the Canucks fall short in 2024.

[Chef Boi RD]

Miller's contributions also bumped that 1st round pick from a top 10 lottery pick to the #20 pick. (oops, I forgot about the 3rd rounder, and Marek MaSparePart - still a cheap trade.)

That was actually part of the point. Because Miller made the team better, the Canucks' 2020 draft pick isn't as good. So while Miller made the 2020 Canucks better, at this point it looks to me like he is making the 2024 Canucks (close to peak years of the new core) worse.

And that's why I'm still questioning the Miller Trade. Not that it wasn't good value, but that the timing was wrong.

I can’t believe people would still question the Miller trade. It’s a win now and going forward.
Right now if they traded Miller they could get back a first round pick, a very good prospect, and a good NHL player at minimum.
If all you are worried about are assets (like draft picks), the trade was great asset management, a clear win.
In hindsight, any GM in the league would be a complete idiot not to make that trade.
Of course, the Canucks won’t trade Miller away because he is too hard to replace. However, the value of the assets trading him away could bring back going forward would be an important contributor by the time the new core is at its peak, if he, himself is no longer with the team.

If Benning actually pulled a pump 'n' dump on Miller, he'd take a step closer to genius in my books. But as you say, he likely won't, so we can talk about it if it happens.

I suspect Benning was told that the Canucks really shouldn't suck for the 50th anniversary season, and he had to do what he could about it. It was a fun playoff run, and I'm sure we all enjoyed it. Reflect on this and see if it gives you comfort if the Canucks fall short in 2024.

So the Buffalo Sabres model?

They are about to draft their 8th top 8 lottery draft pick in a row. And before those 8 a whole bunch of Kassians, Myers, Armias, Girgensens and Grigirenkos.

Yessiree, a recipe for success to continually and foreverly build through the draft

Eventually, somewhere along the way you have to put the brakes on the losing culture as it’s a damn bitch to pull out of

Also RG, the Canucks still have intriguing assets in the pipeline

Podkolzin
Hoglander
Tryamkin
Juolevi
Lind
DiPietro
Rathbone
Woo
Lockwood
Keppen
Focht
McDonaugh
Rafferty

That’s enough dude

[Ronning's Ghost]

Fair opinion, however I would say what got the Canucks past the Wild and the Blues? Their depth.

To me, the Blues series was a very old, very simple hockey story: The Canucks got playoff quality goaltending, and the Blues didn't. And fair enough, the goalie is part of the team, and Benning can take credit for re-signing Markstrom and drafting and developing Demko. But I think the Canucks' goalies in the playoffs made the rest of the team look better than it really was.

Right now, though, he remains tied with Milford, Neale, Gillis, and the rest at zero.

He's also tied with Sakic, the Oilers' five GMs during their rebuild, and well ahead of the Sabres, Senators, and the Shanaplan.

I'm still counting zero Stanley Cups for all rebuilds. What metric are you using?

[ESQ]

I suspect Benning was told that the Canucks really shouldn't suck for the 50th anniversary season, and he had to do what he could about it. It was a fun playoff run, and I'm sure we all enjoyed it. Reflect on this and see if it gives you comfort if the Canucks fall short in 2024.

Could be - I suspect Benning targeted an undervalued asset on a cap-stricken team, and pulled the trigger. If he was just trying to make the 50th anniversary not suck, he'd have gotten Hall or Barrie or some splashier trade target. Instead, he got the perfect piece for this team.

You could chose to believe it was dumb luck (as you do), or you could choose to believe (as I do) that this move fits his overarching strategy of the past five years.

[ESQ]

I'm still counting zero Stanley Cups for all rebuilds. What metric are you using?

How far into the playoffs they've gone after rebuilding. Even though *technically* the Canucks won two playoff rounds, which actually exceeds Colorado's post season performances since beginning their rebuild in 2008.

[Ronning's Ghost]

Yessiree, a recipe for success to continually and foreverly build through the draft

Eventually, somewhere along the way you have to put the brakes on the losing culture as it’s a damn bitch to pull out of

Is there a reason that couldn't be accomplished by spending free agent money on free agents who could actually help the team win?

Also RG, the Canucks still have intriguing assets in the pipeline

Podkolzin
Hoglander
Tryamkin
Juolevi
Lind
DiPietro
Rathbone
Woo
Lockwood
Keppen
Focht
McDonaugh
Rafferty

That’s enough dude

Well, maybe. I've had lots of time to research good crow recipes to enjoy while watching that 3rd Stanley Cup parade if it is.

[Ronning's Ghost]

I suspect Benning was told that the Canucks really shouldn't suck for the 50th anniversary season, and he had to do what he could about it. It was a fun playoff run, and I'm sure we all enjoyed it. Reflect on this and see if it gives you comfort if the Canucks fall short in 2024.

Could be - I suspect Benning targeted an undervalued asset on a cap-stricken team, and pulled the trigger. If he was just trying to make the 50th anniversary not suck, he'd have gotten Hall or Barrie or some splashier trade target. Instead, he got the perfect piece for this team.

You could chose to believe it was dumb luck (as you do), or you could choose to believe (as I do) that this move fits his overarching strategy of the past five years.

Those aren't the only options. I give Benning full credit for identifying an underperforming asset and getting him at a reasonable value, but I also question the timing, i.e. whatever the overarching strategy of the past five years might have been. (Although I'm also willing to give Benning credit for running a 'stealth tank', if that's what actually happened.)

[Chef Boi RD]

Yessiree, a recipe for success to continually and foreverly build through the draft

Eventually, somewhere along the way you have to put the brakes on the losing culture as it’s a damn bitch to pull out of

Is there a reason that couldn't be accomplished by spending free agent money on free agents who could actually help the team win?

Also RG, the Canucks still have intriguing assets in the pipeline

Podkolzin
Hoglander
Tryamkin
Juolevi
Lind
DiPietro
Rathbone
Woo
Lockwood
Keppen
Focht
McDonaugh
Rafferty

That’s enough dude

Well, maybe. I've had lots of time to research good crow recipes to enjoy while watching that 3rd Stanley Cup parade if it is.

You’re pretty negative towards a team that beat the Wild in the round robin and the Blues in the first round and took the Knights to 7 games but according to you only because of goaltending. Meanwhile I just noticed on the playoff scoring leader board that:

Pettersson is 4th with 7 goals 11 assists
Miller is 6th with 6 goals 12 assists
Hughes is 11th with 2 goals 14 assists

And Horvat has 10 goals 2 assists
And Boeser had 4 goals 7 assists

An Amazing goaltending tandem

A real dire future I’m seeing. Maybe you should stop wasting your time on a product you don’t like, let those who like it enjoy it and fuck off and try on the Oilers or Sabres or Maple leaves for size. Maybe they are more up your alley.

It’s really sad that you and your HF alumn can’t seem to get past your Beagles, Eriksson’s and Sutters. If you could you might actually enjoy this, life is short, there’s a lot to like here, Sunshine

[Meds]

I'm still counting zero Stanley Cups for all rebuilds. What metric are you using?

In general it is safe to say there are probably 8-10 teams in the league every year that are "rebuilding".

There are another 6-8 that one might consider "complete" and have a shot at contention on paper.

Then there are 13-17 that are "building" and looking to improve.

With few exceptions every team cycles through these categories over and over.....plenty of them don't win a Cup, but are damned good teams, entertaining to watch, and usually just come out on the short end of a series due to bounces and injuries.

One team wins the Stanley Cup.

There have been 12 different Cup winners over the last 19 years.

Every year 30 teams compete (31 for the past 2), which is 572 rosters all in the mix at one stage or another, and only 12 of them have succeeded.

That's a 2% success rate.

Seems like a stupid metric for qualifying a successful rebuild.

[Richardstroker69]

It doesn’t matter if he pumps and dumps (he most likely would if the team was out of playoff contention at the deadline in his ufa year and miller is re signing), he owns the asset, he can do whatever is best for the team. He’s shown numerous times the last 3 years he does what’s best for the team especially the young guys.