Kassian traded to Habs...

[Hockey Widow]

I don't get the hard on for Lucic. Yes he's protypical power forward, but he does not create on his own. I don't think he's a great skater either. In a second line role with 1st unit PP time in LA he will thrive, but he's not the guy to build a 1st line around.

I don't disagree Top but Benning has a hard on for the guy. If he gets to UFA I fear Benning will sign him to his retirement contract with a full NMC.

[Chef Boi RD]

SInce being a 2011 Cup Finalist, we have had 3 dismal first round beatings and a non playoff birth. Fucking awful stuff after being a 2011 Cup Finalist. The team needs to be blown up, yet we are all moaning about it, yes, that's schizo, but this city always has been, you don't blow it up, we bitch, you do blow it up, we bitch. It's mostly the local media leading the charge followed by the fearweather fans who let the Tony Gallaghers do the thinking for them

Classic Canuck fan-ism - Over value Canucks on the trade market, and ignoring the method to the madness. It has been said a thousand times in the last week from Benning to Linden to the Pundits. The Canucks have been shopping Kassian for 8 months, he obviously wasn't worth much in the eyes of the rest of the GMs around the league. Yes I do believe they targeted Prust and paid a bit more for him and so fucking what, there is method to that madness. Brandon plays the left side, Dorsett the right. With all the talk coming from Benning and Linden about the 'transition' creating room for the kids coming up to earn a spot in (the right side was log-jammed, hence Kassian RW - Prust LW and with how high Benning is on Grenier RW and VIrtanen RW, he obviously wanted to clean house there, the sacrifice - Kassian, the protector for the kids - Prust. Kassian was not very good at protecting team mates, his only toughness came from yapping from the bench and post whistle scrums. He only wanted to play a skill game and not a tough, hard hitting, net presence game. Had it in himself that he was a perimeter disher, was never affective in the dirty, hard areas.

I also love how fans choose to ignore, the behind the scenes, team guy, chemistry, off-ice professionalism and preparation and how little they give credence to that. Makes me wonder if any of you have ever worked with other people in your jobs or have ever played team sports. It is just bizarre to me how some refuse to acknowledge how detrimental a player can be to the environment who the coaching staff and management really struggle with getting their heads out of their asses. Not saying Zack was a bad guy, but where there is smoke there is fire, the way Zack carried himself and struggled with systems and not playing the way the coaches past and present wanted him to play is the reason why he is gone and not in high demand on the trade market. Blob has visions of him being the next Ryan Clowe, but chooses to ignore all the negatives that obviously has been issue with his coaches.

Clearing the books for future UFA's. I believe the decision to trade Bieksa was made long ago, these guys just don't wake up in the middle night and scream, Lets trade Bieksa. Everything is run through with a fine toothed comb at the management level as with any organization sports or in business. Long term planning plays such a huge part of every organization. One of the reasons Sbisa got the contract he did because the Canucks had it planned all along that they were gonna move Bieksa, The team was old, Benning kept saying it and saying it and saying. No way Bieksa was coming back here after this year, the trade was a given. Benning had to lock up Sbisa. Whether you like him or not, he's been in the league a while now, only 24 but he's got miles on him and knows the game. All this is pointing to some big UFA transactions next summer, do not be surprised to see some vets moved over the next year before next July 1st. Once we get a look at how training camp is going, Benning and Linden will have a pretty good idea on their next moves.

Anyhow, carry on with your lightning rods, keep looking for those individuals to vent on (Sbisa) in these troubling times of transitioning, I mean it's all Sbisas fault right. It's not 2011 anymore, the Sedins are done, this time was coming, it's here now, accept it. Let Benning see his plan through, it's only been a fucking year in his tenure. He inherited a fucking mess made by Gillis. All things are pointing in the right direction, we got some good young players coming - Horvat, McCann, Virtanen, Boeser, Cassels, Demko plus some others. A couple more strong drafts and one or two major UFA signings over the next few years (Lucici? Johansen? Evander Kane?) and we are back on top.

[ClamRussel]

Let's not get carried away here, Clam. Baertschi is a better prospect than Jensen. I do get the sentiment though. Wether Benning is trading picks for kids or vets he's still trading picks. We have no idea wether or not Vey and Baertschi (or Pedan) will ever be regular NHL'ers. They'll get their chance this season (and next) because we are not going to be a good, or deep hockey team.
....

There certainly appears to be a wide gap between what Benning is willing to give up in trade vs. what he's willing to accept for a return. I think that's a sign of a poor negotiator, and one that gets fixated to move/acquire his targetted players, regardless of cost/return.

Better but in the same danger category of becoming a never-was. Ask Burke his opinion on Baertschi, sounds the same as Benning's opinion on Jensen. Calgary was in a sell low position w/ Baertschi. He was a total disappointment there and threatening to not resign w/ them. Yet Benning bought high. Again.

...and continues to sell low. It's not who he trades for or away I have a problem with, it's the cost/return.

Benning is confusing as he came advertised as a lover of the draft and draft picks. Not sure why all our GMs all the way back to Quinn get so enamoured with trading draft picks for early to mid twenty year old bubble players, always hated it, they rarely work out in your favour. As Ray Ferraro says, the key to success in drafting is pure volume, it will always be a crap shoot, but the more picks you have the greater your odds are at striking gold. Why you rarely see the Red Wings trade draft picks.

That's why I made the Nonis comment. Not who he's trading picks for but rather the volume of high end picks being doled out. Since Benning's forté is amateur scouting, and we're kinda rebuilding here, I would expect him to not only retain these picks but to add picks on top of that.

[Chef Boi RD]

Let's not get carried away here, Clam. Baertschi is a better prospect than Jensen. I do get the sentiment though. Wether Benning is trading picks for kids or vets he's still trading picks. We have no idea wether or not Vey and Baertschi (or Pedan) will ever be regular NHL'ers. They'll get their chance this season (and next) because we are not going to be a good, or deep hockey team.
....

There certainly appears to be a wide gap between what Benning is willing to give up in trade vs. what he's willing to accept for a return. I think that's a sign of a poor negotiator, and one that gets fixated to move/acquire his targetted players, regardless of cost/return.

Better but in the same danger category of becoming a never-was. Ask Burke his opinion on Baertschi, sounds the same as Benning's opinion on Jensen. Calgary was in a sell low position w/ Baertschi. He was a total disappointment there and threatening to not resign w/ them. Yet Benning bought high. Again.

...and continues to sell low. It's not who he trades for or away I have a problem with, it's the cost/return.

Benning is confusing as he came advertised as a lover of the draft and draft picks. Not sure why all our GMs all the way back to Quinn get so enamoured with trading draft picks for early to mid twenty year old bubble players, always hated it, they rarely work out in your favour. As Ray Ferraro says, the key to success in drafting is pure volume, it will always be a crap shoot, but the more picks you have the greater your odds are at striking gold. Why you rarely see the Red Wings trade draft picks.

That's why I made the Nonis comment. Not who he's trading picks for but rather the volume of high end picks being doled out. Since Benning's forté is amateur scouting, and we're kinda rebuilding here, I would expect him to not only retain these picks but to add picks on top of that.

Clam, it wasn't just Nonis. They all did - Quinn, Burke, Nonis, Gillis and now seemingly - Benning. Always hated being a seller, it never works, or rarely does. But I do believe you won't be seeing much more of that anymore from Benning, it's just not in his DNA, he is draft crazy, prospect crazy a bird dog scout at heart. I think there were things bothering him about this organization top to bottom. He has made it known that he did not like the age gap or hole in that mid twenties era which was created by Gillis, which could explain some of the moves, Sbisa, Bonino, Vey, Baerschi, etc.

I get a sense from Benning that you will be seeing more 2016 draft picks coming here. Benning has said publicly that he feels the 2016 draft is deeper than the 2015. Which seems amazing to me cause the 2015 was pretty deep as well.

[Strangelove]

Ease off the Kool-Aid Doc, Baertschi is basically Jensen at this point in his career. Fortunately for Sven he is one of Benning's boys so he'll be given the red carpet. Jensen is a Gillis pick so he'll be shipped out for a 7th.

Let's not get carried away here, Clam. Baertschi is a better prospect than Jensen.

LOL Clam, even Mr Doom N. Gloom who hates small players sees the value of Baertschi.

Apparently, you weren't paying attention to Utica's playoff run.

Baertschi scored 8 of the team's 53 goals and is presently miles ahead of Jensen.

Benning gave up 2nd round picks on young players who could play for a decade in the NHL.

2nd round picks have about a one-in-3 chance of providing that.

Therefore if 1.5 of these 2 pan out: Benning wins (we need NHL-ready young players)

Meanwhile a player on the downside of his career who might provide 2/3 years on the 3rd pairing

... is worth a 2nd round pick at best.

So yes, I absolutely believe Baertschi is worth more than Bieksa at this point.

BTW I make my own koolaid.

So yeah, I certainly won’t be partaking in any of the poison you are serving up.

[Strangelove]

I get a sense from Benning that you will be seeing more 2016 draft picks coming here. Benning has said publicly that he feels the 2016 draft is deeper than the 2015. Which seems amazing to me cause the 2015 was pretty deep as well.

Right, plus Benning has talked a lot about moving vets for picks...

[Strangelove]

I see.

So last night, the evening after he signed for 3, you were whining that your overlord didn't sign him for 1/2?

A tad idiotic, no?

Honestly, I hardly said anything about Richie.

Let's see here, our $7M guy scores 20Gs, our $1.8M guy scores 18Gs, what is wrong with this picture?

Dank earned his $7M last year and Matthias earned his $1.8M.

To argue otherwise is a todd idiotic.

[Topper]

You are all a bunch of trolls.

How dare you question Clam.

[Rayxor]

I think, and I hope I'm right, that JB is making these questionable moves because he wants to get them done sooner rather than later, which means you pay the price now for what you want, rather than waiting for the better deal to come along in 3 months, 6, 9 or a year. He wanted a certain player who might not have been on the block so it had to be extra sweet to get done.

The trade-off is you are starting your retool process at your own pace, getting rid of a potential negative influence on the young players and bringing in a mentor who will demonstrate the required work ethic from day one of training camp and maybe even sooner.

In other words, he is trying to be proactive rather than reactive on the market. The whole ordeal with Lu was a distraction and took years to settle. Ultimately we never struck gold with it and as collateral damage, we were forced to trade our future starting goalie. In hindsight, it would have been best to move him as early as possible.

Waiting for GMs to come calling doesnt really work if you are trying to make a transition because you cant linger in the grey zone too long. Proactive moves will bring less gains but set you up for the new era. It's a simple trade-off of short term pain for long term benefits.

What we have now is a clear situation where the prospects will be groomed to assume the leadership roles as the old core retires or is moved out. The message to them is that management will make room for you when you are ready to be here. They have the mentors in the Sedins, classy vets who have continuously worked on their game to become top players in their prime. They have low/non drafted guys that had to bust their ass every shift to earn an NHL paycheck (Burrows, Dorsett, Hansen) and some reminders that high draft selection doesnt mean crap without the required effort or attitude (Hodgson, Kassian).

Again, i *hope* this is what the plan is. If it is and it works, all these... interesting moves will be forgotten and we will be happy with with the results. If it doesnt or if if this is clearly not the path we are taking, the fans will be debating if JB was an idiot or simply insane.

[ClamRussel]

Ease off the Kool-Aid Doc, Baertschi is basically Jensen at this point in his career. Fortunately for Sven he is one of Benning's boys so he'll be given the red carpet. Jensen is a Gillis pick so he'll be shipped out for a 7th.

Let's not get carried away here, Clam. Baertschi is a better prospect than Jensen.

LOL Clam, even Mr Doom N. Gloom who hates small players sees the value of Baertschi.

Apparently, you weren't paying attention to Utica's playoff run.

Baertschi scored 8 of the team's 53 goals and is presently miles ahead of Jensen.

Benning gave up 2nd round picks on young players who could play for a decade in the NHL.

2nd round picks have about a one-in-3 chance of providing that.

Therefore if 1.5 of these 2 pan out: Benning wins (we need NHL-ready young players)

Meanwhile a player on the downside of his career who might provide 2/3 years on the 3rd pairing

... is worth a 2nd round pick at best.

So yes, I absolutely believe Baertschi is worth more than Bieksa at this point.

BTW I make my own koolaid.

So yeah, I certainly won’t be partaking in any of the poison you are serving up.

...Doc, reality. Baertschi had a fine playoff, I'm not down on him as a player. I'm was talking about the point he was traded, his value was similar to where Jensen is at. Not exactly a high point and Benning paid a premium for a player who had serious question marks hanging over him. Benning as much as stated he was a reclamation project and hoped Green would help him turn it around. So far so good.

Established NHL players tend to have greater trade value than prospects who have yet to put it together and are waiver vulnerable.

Jensen was one of their top forwards in the finals btw. Green said he responded very well when he was reinserted into the lineup. Perhaps there's hope for him as well, or will he be tossed aside? My guess is JB trades him for a mid to late pick, say a 5th.

[Blob Mckenzie]

Doc you think Linden Vey could be an NHL player for a decade ?

[ClamRussel]

What we have now is a clear situation where the prospects will be groomed to assume the leadership roles as the old core retires or is moved out. The message to them is that management will make room for you when you are ready to be here. They have the mentors in the Sedins, classy vets who have continuously worked on their game to become top players in their prime. They have low/non drafted guys that had to bust their ass every shift to earn an NHL paycheck (Burrows, Dorsett, Hansen) and some reminders that high draft selection doesnt mean crap without the required effort or attitude (Hodgson, Kassian).

We never really know what's going on behind the scenes, if there were attitude problems then it's best the problem players are shipped out ASAP. It would be nice to see Benning at least getter a better return than he has to date. Where does Baertschi fit in to this "bust their ass every shift to earn an NHL paycheck" mantra? ...or does that not apply to the skill guys? Burke's biggest criticism of him was his refusal to consistently work hard and play a 2-way game. I would assume that's an area Green worked on with him. As expensive as he is, Burrows may be the best mentor & example for a top 6 winger prospect (like Baertschi) in this regard.

Benning is going to have to weigh his options when TTD comes around as he could probably get a fine return for a guy like Hamhuis but how do you trade your top mentor on the blueline?

[Strangelove]

Doc you think Linden Vey could be an NHL player for a decade ?

You are such an asshole Blob: You know I hate Linden Vey!

Nonetheless, my point remains.

*drinks some hastily whipped up koolaid*

And now that I think about it, Vey was a very young rookie last year

... he could take a huge jump forward next season!!

[Strangelove]

I think, and I hope I'm right, that JB is making these questionable moves because he wants to get them done sooner rather than later, which means you pay the price now for what you want, rather than waiting for the better deal to come along in 3 months, 6, 9 or a year. He wanted a certain player who might not have been on the block so it had to be extra sweet to get done.

The trade-off is you are starting your retool process at your own pace, getting rid of a potential negative influence on the young players and bringing in a mentor who will demonstrate the required work ethic from day one of training camp and maybe even sooner.

In other words, he is trying to be proactive rather than reactive on the market. The whole ordeal with Lu was a distraction and took years to settle. Ultimately we never struck gold with it and as collateral damage, we were forced to trade our future starting goalie. In hindsight, it would have been best to move him as early as possible.

Waiting for GMs to come calling doesnt really work if you are trying to make a transition because you cant linger in the grey zone too long. Proactive moves will bring less gains but set you up for the new era. It's a simple trade-off of short term pain for long term benefits.

What we have now is a clear situation where the prospects will be groomed to assume the leadership roles as the old core retires or is moved out. The message to them is that management will make room for you when you are ready to be here. They have the mentors in the Sedins, classy vets who have continuously worked on their game to become top players in their prime. They have low/non drafted guys that had to bust their ass every shift to earn an NHL paycheck (Burrows, Dorsett, Hansen) and some reminders that high draft selection doesnt mean crap without the required effort or attitude (Hodgson, Kassian).

Again, i *hope* this is what the plan is. If it is and it works, all these... interesting moves will be forgotten and we will be happy with with the results. If it doesnt or if if this is clearly not the path we are taking, the fans will be debating if JB was an idiot or simply insane.

Excellent post as always Rayxor!

As for your last sentence, the many bedwetters in Canuckdom jumped the gun and are already there.

Benning's plan will work... and the bedwetters will be in denial about their bedwetting.

[Diehard1]

I know - he gave up a 5th to get rid of Kassian, a move I think was odd as well, but you act like he's pissing away picks for aged veterans. He's trying to grab young players to put into the lineup, nothing wrong with that .

That's your deal, I never said that. I simply referred to the fact picks have been flying out the door. Picks are important to him yet he keeps trading them then scrambling to re-acquire them. You don't find picks for prospects risky? Like the picks themselves, there's no guarantee they get it despite being older & gifted roster positions.

Nope, I find prospects for picks less risky than straight picks - at least you remove the absolute busts from the equation, you'll get at least a good AHL player out of it given they've had a couple of years of further development. I don't mind the strategy in general, just need to make sure you're trading for the right players and the jury is still out on that for now.

Again, I don't mind the picks going either as long as they are going for young players, it's essentially the same thing as drafting players as its restocking your farm system in a slightly different way.

As for insinuating that Benning is picking up old guys, that's exactly what Nonis did so thats the point I figured you were making. Perhaps I missed it.