2015 Stanley Cup Finals

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Island Nucklehead
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Re: 2015 Stanley Cup Finals

Post by Island Nucklehead »

The connection I'm making is that Benning appears to be a poor manager of assets and is short-sighted in his approach. Cap space is valuable if you don't waste it. He arguably wasted it on Miller, and he definitely wasted it on Sbisa. Full stop.

Didn't really need the history lesson. Just pointing out someone Benning gave away is playing a meaningful role on a team competing for a Stanley Cup, while the player we came out of it with could be on waivers at the start of next season.
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Hockey Widow
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Re: 2015 Stanley Cup Finals

Post by Hockey Widow »

Good thing I didn't bet the house! Congrats to Chicago. Even with four D they got it done. The type of team that just seems to be able to do enough, and then a little more.

Now on to the draft!
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Todd Bersnoozi
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Re: 2015 Stanley Cup Finals

Post by Todd Bersnoozi »

Man, can't believe we were right there with the Hawks @ one point. So sad, how the mighty have fallen. :(
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Hockey Widow
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Re: 2015 Stanley Cup Finals

Post by Hockey Widow »

The core for the Hawks is very special, skilled, game breakers. Toews, Kane, Hossa, Keith, Seabrook. We've never had five that good at the same time. We've had good teams for sure and our share of special players but that core, we should be so lucky. That's a great five to build around.

When we had the WCE, the Sedins were just earring their stripes. We had a solid defence but sucked in net. Since the Twins have taken over we've never really had a good, solid second line. We've had a good defence and great goaltending but no true number one on D. We've had good depth players, good role players but not enough top six.

So yea, we were up there with them for a couple of seasons but never with a core like that. Funny, I don't hate them anymore, I respect what they have done and no doubt they will re-tool again, maybe slide back for a year or two but they will still be a contender.

Funny thing though, when you win 3 cups in 6 years you can re-tool in peace.

And Quenville schooled another coach, had him one matching and playing his game.
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Mr.Miyagi
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Re: 2015 Stanley Cup Finals

Post by Mr.Miyagi »

Hockey Widow wrote:... Funny, I don't hate them anymore, I respect what they have done...
My thoughts exactly. They used to be easy to hate, and at times they deserved it but man how can you not respect that group? Keith's elbow to Daniel's head is about the only spiteful reservation I am holding on to and even that is slipping away gradually.

Congratulations Blackhawks.
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Re: 2015 Stanley Cup Finals

Post by Cookie La Rue »

Traitors :devil:

Respect yes, they're a great team. But i hate them nevertheless, maybe even more.
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Island Nucklehead
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Re: 2015 Stanley Cup Finals

Post by Island Nucklehead »

Hockey Widow wrote:The core for the Hawks is very special, skilled, game breakers. Toews, Kane, Hossa, Keith, Seabrook. We've never had five guys that good at the same time. We've had good teams for sure and our share of special players but that core, we should be so lucky. That's a great five to build around.
Fixed.

So yea, we were up there with them for a couple of seasons but never with a core like that. Funny, I don't hate them anymore, I respect what they have done and no doubt they will re-tool again, maybe slide back for a year or two but they will still be a contender.

Funny thing though, when you win 3 cups in 6 years you can re-tool in peace.

And Quenville schooled another coach, had him one matching and playing his game.
What really kind of sucks for the Canucks is that it took so long for the Sedins to develop into star players. They were 25/26 before they really took over. It definitely makes the window smaller. A guy like Patrick Kane has been a star in the league since he was 19 years old. So yeah, Chicago has a great core, but their window was always going to be bigger because their best players (Kane and Toews) were stars sooner. That depth has been essential for Chicago, and it's a major factor why Edmonton has yet to put it together. IF Benning can fix the Canucks drafting, it will go a long way to improving our chances in 6-7 years when we might have a real shot again.

Another reason Benning should be stockpiling his picks instead of trading them for more "NHL ready" prospects. Building a strong stable of prospects is key, but we'll need our own Hjarlarsson (4th round), Keith (2nd), Seabrook (1st), Crawfod (2nd), Shaw (5th), Saad (2nd) to be in the organization if/when we can get our hands on our Kane and Toews.

Duncan Keith is still a greasy cheap-shot artist. I wouldn't shed a tear if someone Samuelsson'd him. Can't argue with his talent, though.
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Re: 2015 Stanley Cup Finals

Post by 2Fingers »

I will say it again and again, what good are pick and prospects if you don't develop them properly. This means the coach has to be in sync with the GM and owners to give prospects a chance to learn the game at the NHL level.
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Re: 2015 Stanley Cup Finals

Post by okcanuck »

I wonder what Kirill Koltzof is doing these days. He was the Canucks pick in 2002 ahead of Duncan Keith.
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Re: 2015 Stanley Cup Finals

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

Reefer2 wrote:I will say it again and again, what good are pick and prospects if you don't develop them properly. This means the coach has to be in sync with the GM and owners to give prospects a chance to learn the game at the NHL level.
You can say it all you want to reef but it doesn't make it right. The Canucks do not have any top prospects being held back by the coaching staff . You don't throw mediocre prospects to the wolves before they are ready just because you " want to give them a chance " . This team finally has decent ( not great by any means and not even good ) prospects . Ignitowski should be building the pool up , not puking away picks for 23 year olds who can't cut it in good organizations . Linden Vey was waiver wire fodder yet Benning gave up a high pick for him and Desjardins shoehorned him into the lineup despite the fact he was built like a 12 year old boy .
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Re: 2015 Stanley Cup Finals

Post by Meds »

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:The core for the Hawks is very special, skilled, game breakers. Toews, Kane, Hossa, Keith, Seabrook. We've never had five guys that good at the same time. We've had good teams for sure and our share of special players but that core, we should be so lucky. That's a great five to build around.
Fixed.
Yeah.....Pavel Bure who?

The difference is that we have never had playoff warriors like those guys. Linden was close in his day, but he didn't have the supporting cast and he aged faster it seemed.
What really kind of sucks for the Canucks is that it took so long for the Sedins to develop into star players. They were 25/26 before they really took over. It definitely makes the window smaller. A guy like Patrick Kane has been a star in the league since he was 19 years old. So yeah, Chicago has a great core, but their window was always going to be bigger because their best players (Kane and Toews) were stars sooner. That depth has been essential for Chicago, and it's a major factor why Edmonton has yet to put it together. IF Benning can fix the Canucks drafting, it will go a long way to improving our chances in 6-7 years when we might have a real shot again.

Another reason Benning should be stockpiling his picks instead of trading them for more "NHL ready" prospects. Building a strong stable of prospects is key, but we'll need our own Hjarlarsson (4th round), Keith (2nd), Seabrook (1st), Crawfod (2nd), Shaw (5th), Saad (2nd) to be in the organization if/when we can get our hands on our Kane and Toews.

Duncan Keith is still a greasy cheap-shot artist. I wouldn't shed a tear if someone Samuelsson'd him. Can't argue with his talent, though.
Keith is the only player on that Chicago team that I really can't stand. I'm with ya on someone Samuelssoning him.

Toews is still a whiny bitch after a loss, especially to a rival, but he's growing up. No denying his talent and heart, wish he wore the Orca.

Crawford is a pouter, can't stand him, but everyone knows he is streaky and overrated. He has a couple of rings now, but he couldn't backstop any other team to a Cup, and I doubt anyone would ask him to.

The Sedins numbers since the 2004 lockout are actually as good, or better, than Toews', even in the playoffs (maybe not after this season). They didn't have the same 200 foot presence as Toews, but the numbers don't lie. The other difference between them is that Toews doesn't have a one-dimensional approach to offense, he can play any style of offense, if the Sedins can't cycle and make their cute passes, then they are effectively shutdown.....playoff hockey has gone back to the harder fought, clutch and grab, style, big teams can easily contain the Twins now.

We have never had a Sharp, Hossa, and Saad, rounding out our top-6. That is a huge difference.

Lacking a Keith-Seabrook pairing on the blueline has been the biggest difference, imho.
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Re: 2015 Stanley Cup Finals

Post by Meds »

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Reefer2 wrote:I will say it again and again, what good are pick and prospects if you don't develop them properly. This means the coach has to be in sync with the GM and owners to give prospects a chance to learn the game at the NHL level.
You can say it all you want to reef but it doesn't make it right. The Canucks do not have any top prospects being held back by the coaching staff . You don't throw mediocre prospects to the wolves before they are ready just because you " want to give them a chance " . This team finally has decent ( not great by any means and not even good ) prospects . Ignitowski should be building the pool up , not puking away picks for 23 year olds who can't cut it in good organizations . Linden Vey was waiver wire fodder yet Benning gave up a high pick for him and Desjardins shoehorned him into the lineup despite the fact he was built like a 12 year old boy .
Rumor was that Desjardins was the one pushing for Vey. Regardless, he gave up one 2nd round pick for a prospect from a good organization. Nobody is happy with it.

Forsling for Clendening was probably a decent trade. Forsling had a couple of amazing games at the WJC and Benning dealt a hot commodity that is still a very unsure bet.

Pedan for Mallet + 3rd (2016), who knows yet. Hopefully that pans out. Mallet was probably never gonna crack the NHL, and Pedan may or may not turn into a solid bottom pairing defender.

Baertschi for our 2015 2nd.....hard to say. The kid is 22 already, but I see this as similar to the trade for Clendening. The Canucks had NOBODY in that early 20's age group who looked ready to step up and join the big club in the next year or two, he had to stock that group up first because the aging roster will need new faces and there is a better chance that those guys can make the AHL to NHL leap before 18 year old kids can.

I'm with ya regarding Vey, the kid sucks and can't cut it in the NHL. He's too soft, that was a terrible trade. But it's one trade in his first year at the helm. If he pulls off some trades to get another 1st and maybe a 2nd or 3rd.....then year one is a success.
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Re: 2015 Stanley Cup Finals

Post by Puck »

This:
Mr.Miyagi wrote:...Keith's elbow to Daniel's head is about the only spiteful reservation I am holding on to...
Especially since he hasn't done anything similar since - it was clearly a tactical move. One that seemingly put Daniel's career into decline and likely ended our season early that year. Totally class-less move again a total class opponent.

And this:
Mëds wrote:Yeah.....Pavel Bure who?
[...]
Toews is still a whiny bitch after a loss, especially to a rival, but he's growing up. No denying his talent and heart, wish he wore the Orca.

Lacking a Keith-Seabrook pairing on the blueline has been the biggest difference, imho.
Well said, Mëds.

If the NHL copies the Blackhawks and we see teams build for speed and skill then we are all better off for it.
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Re: 2015 Stanley Cup Finals

Post by ESQ »

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Reefer2 wrote:I will say it again and again, what good are pick and prospects if you don't develop them properly. This means the coach has to be in sync with the GM and owners to give prospects a chance to learn the game at the NHL level.
You can say it all you want to reef but it doesn't make it right. The Canucks do not have any top prospects being held back by the coaching staff .
Michael Grabner had a 34-goal season after being traded.

Hodgson had 3 40ish point seasons after being traded.

Kevin Connauton had more goals than any Canucks D (except for Yannik :/) in his second season.

And I had to do it since someone brought him up in this thread, but yes, Kirill Koltsov is still playing and is the leading defenseman scorer in the KHL.

Those are 4 guys that I'd consider to have been top prospects who did not reach their potential in the Canucks organization. All for different reasons, but all 4 of those guys could have contributed, particularly when you consider what they were traded for - Kassian, Roy, Ballard, and sweet fuck all for Koltsov.
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Re: 2015 Stanley Cup Finals

Post by Strangelove »

Cookie La Rue wrote:Traitors :devil:

Respect yes, they're a great team. But i hate them nevertheless, maybe even more.
Agree with everything except "respect them". :evil:

The fact a team like that wins the Cup only proves that NHL = FUBAR.
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