The Defence
Moderator: Referees
- Chef Boi RD
- MVP
- Posts: 19469
- Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
- Location: Vancouver
Re: The Defence
I tell you what, after seeing the Redwood Tree staple Benn to the IR profoundly, ole Blobbee Macuzzi is gonna love this guy. Move over Andrew Ladd, Blobbee has a new favourite player
“Tyler Myers is my guy... I was taking to Scotty Bowman last night and he was bringing up his name, and saying he’s a big guy and big guy need big minutes to play, he is playing great for ya… and I agree with him… He’s been exceptional” - Bruce Boudreau
- Madcombinepilot
- MVP
- Posts: 4236
- Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:54 am
- Location: Saskatoon, Sk.
Re: The Defence
you and I have different definitions of 'little bitch'. I am simply calling you out on your prideful stand of a knee jerk reactionary trade that goes against what you yap about all the time. Why do you keep deflecting the main question I asked? you seem to have gotten a little worked up about this..Why you got act like a little bitch bro?
so, this simple statement means that (according to you) we should now get older on Defence?? You said it takes time to develop defence.. so how do they develop if you take away a roster spot with Campbell??Well for one thing we have enough young guys on our defense
Have any links or facts to back up Vegas's scouting, and what they are scouting for? seriously, every team scouts every other team.. and what other teams have interest? or has your 'mad scientist' approach to trades now affecting other teams? perhaps you can read minds too?? you sure seem to know what everyone else wants...Subban is a slightly slower clone of Stecher, and they are both pretty tiny, in fact Subban is smaller at 5'9 and he's a right side dman where we have plenty of dmen already.
Vegas apparently has been highly scouting Utica, imo they are targeting Subban, more than couple teams probably have interest, JS is probable trade bait down the road thanks to having Stecher here.
Seriously?!?? If an AHL defenceman was going to be a 'Difference Maker' in the NHL, wouldn't he already be playing in the NHL?? off the top of my head, I cant think of many NHL teams that have 'difference making' defencemen in the minors simply rotting away...Even with all our injuries this year not many AHL dmen have done much or been noticed to be promoted to be a difference maker in the game.
Tanev, Hutton and Gudbranson are not rookies. Tanev and (especially) Gudbranson are recognized as leaders in the room and community.. we don't need to add a 30+ year old defenceman to avoid 'a defence full of rookies'Yes I'm an advocate of getting younger, but I also don't want a full defense of rookies, fuck that nonsense.
that's why its called a 'rebuild'... and why they require patience.more growing pains of watching them make mistakes for a few years.
your backwards here. Sometimes, Topper sounds like me, and I don't know if he is embarrassed or not.Quit trying to sound like topper et al it's embarrassing.
I doubt we will ever get a 1st overall pick, but I agree with the idea of this statement. I think we have vets already, and in a couple years, we will have a couple more vets.. and the vets we are stuck with now are far superior to anything the oilers ever had in the day, so its really not any comparison at all.But like I explained earlier for team success lets have some vets mixed with youth, what's wrong with that? You seen the Oilers destroy a lot of their young guys 1st overall picks confidence by having a lot of shitty players surround them.
I think I see where your going with this, but your logic is flawed. Tanev can be moved now or later. It will easy to move a RH good defender for the next several years. I would argue 'much more value', but seeing as your already worked up on my original questions, I don't really want to let you sidetrack this defining his value in 2-3 years. I will comment on the lack of logic on thinking Edler (older) is somehow more durable than the younger Tanev..Now Tanev can be traded anywheremuch easier to move and has much more value, you deal him now before he has more injury woes, plus thanks to Tryamkin and Gudbranson on Tanev's right side it makes it easier to move the Tanman.
well, ummm, that's kinda what happens during a rebuild...I don't know if you noticed it but our coaches haven't taught em well enough ya know with the team missing the playoffs 3 out of 4 years? and damn near last in the league in every category imaginable.
Seeing as you have been on (and off) the 'we should tank' bandwagon, I thought you would be happy (and sometimes sad) about this...
so, lets get an old guy in to take up a roster spot instead of developing our own guy for use in the next couple years?? If you have watched any games, you will see that Stetcher has been learning when to lead the rush. Tryamkin, Hutton, heck, even Sbisa and Tanev have been leading rushes every game. Its like they are being coached or something on it..Campbell has reached over 40 points 5x and two of those over 50 points and 60 points, he knows what it takes to lead a rush, QB a team and score in the NHL.
yet you are the 'trade guy'.. you traded Burrows and Hanson more times than anyone on this site can count.. and defended why they had to go.. why are you replacing that 'teachings and experience' now?? Let our young guys develop.. this brings me back to the flip-floppy...You seen the effect Burrows and other vets had on the youth, their teachings and experience are invaluable on the ice/bench/locker room,
The 'Chain of Command' is the chain I am going to beat you with until you understand I am in charge.
Re: The Defence
Topper sounds like me.
Sometimes.
Sometimes.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.
I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
Re: The Defence
Yes, because it's our defense that needs a lot of tweaks and refining to be better.Madcombinepilot wrote:yet you are the 'trade guy'.. you traded Burrows and Hanson more times than anyone on this site can count.. and defended why they had to go.. why are you replacing that 'teachings and experience' now?? Let our young guys develop.. this brings me back to the flip-floppy...You seen the effect Burrows and other vets had on the youth, their teachings and experience are invaluable on the ice/bench/locker room,
I'd rather have more offense and mentorship overall, now it's the defense turn to get solidified, team has never had a prolific scoring dman - in I can't even remember at this point, closest was Ehrhoff for a short stint, then Ohlund who was above average then gotta go back to Lumme days after that.
I just really want Stecher and Hutton to have the best teachings/atmosphere to bring their game to that next level and what better way than having Campbell show em the ropes for a whole one year on the cheap.
*bonus* is Campbell and Guds have chemistry already.
I see Campbell as like a Markov with the Habs a depth QB type.
In my perfect world with this team we'd have a QB paired with either a big defensive dman or a two-way type dman.
Additionally just for the Sedins last year here next season (along with Bo's line etc), it would be nice just have more options of offensive minded dmen for them to play with, as there is going to be a ton of youth on this squad next year and the years after......so FFS flipflopping fuck outta here with that noise.
And it's not like I'm saying we should go out and sign big bucks Shattenkirk, Sharp and Oshie here for six to eight years, all I'm talking about is a 1.75m - 2m depth guy for the bottom pairing of our defense, acting like I'm obliterating all the youth here with that measly depth signing for one season to help stech/huts develop.
Furthermore this allows Juolevi to develop one more season, as it decreases the need to rush Olli into the team.
Problem is if he continues to get injured a lot his value could decrease badly, imo you should trade this guy at his highest value, I'd package him up for a player of Landeskog's caliber.I think I see where your going with this, but your logic is flawed. Tanev can be moved now or later. It will easy to move a RH good defender for the next several years.
Can the Canucks just win a Cup within the next 5 years.
Re: The Defence
Seems to me that our Defence is our strong suit moving forward. Tanev (and Edler, if we keep him) have done a great job mentoring the kids.SKYO wrote:Yes, because it's our defense that needs a lot of tweaks and refining to be better.Madcombinepilot wrote:yet you are the 'trade guy'.. you traded Burrows and Hanson more times than anyone on this site can count.. and defended why they had to go.. why are you replacing that 'teachings and experience' now?? Let our young guys develop.. this brings me back to the flip-floppy...You seen the effect Burrows and other vets had on the youth, their teachings and experience are invaluable on the ice/bench/locker room,
You can't really coach/mentor someone into being a PP QB. That is a trait you either have or you don't have.
I'd rather have more offense and mentorship overall, now it's the defense turn to get solidified, team has never had a prolific scoring dman - in I can't even remember at this point, closest was Ehrhoff for a short stint, then Ohlund who was above average then gotta go back to Lumme days after that.
We are pretty full on Defence, so I don't even see a spot for an old dude like Campbell. Unless we trade/lose 2 Dmen this summer, we are still sitting on 6 solid D-men, and Biega, and Juolevi, and Brisbois, and...
I just really want Stecher and Hutton to have the best teachings/atmosphere to bring their game to that next level and what better way than having Campbell show em the ropes for a whole one year on the cheap.
And it's not like I'm saying we should go out and sign big bucks Shattenkirk, Sharp and Oshie here for six to eight years, all I'm talking about is a 1.75m - 2m depth guy for the bottom pairing of our defense, acting like I'm obliterating all the youth here with that measly depth signing for one season to help stech/huts develop.
Furthermore this allows Juolevi to develop one more season, as it decreases the need to rush Olli into the team.
The Cup is soooooo ours!!!!!!!
Re: The Defence
I don't know what's happened to the D the past couple of years, perhaps its a Willie D thing, but throughout the Crawford/Vigneault era the Canucks always had a 40+ point defenceman, and a couple others in the high-30s. And its not like they were always superstars - Jovo for a couple years, then Sopel had 42, then Nolan freakin Baumgartner had 34 points in 70 games in 05/06, Bieksa, Edler, Ehrhoff, Hamhuis got up to 37 in 11/12.
But since Torts, the best defenceman season has been Garrison with 33 points. We were all giddy with Hutton's d-leading 25 points last season, and Stecher is on pace for 25 points this year.
Maybe they'll follow Edler's trajectory, who hit 37 points in his third season.
But I'm not sure this team is coached in such a way to have 40+point defenceman. Where Crow could get 40+ out of Sopel and AV had bottom-pair Baumgartner on pace for 40 points, we've seen Edler go from 49 points to 20ish in 5 seasons.
I'm really curious what next season will bring - I'm fairly confident it won't see a resurgence in Edler, but Hutton's sophomore slump was actually pretty minor from an offense perspective, and he has been playing serious minutes.
But since Torts, the best defenceman season has been Garrison with 33 points. We were all giddy with Hutton's d-leading 25 points last season, and Stecher is on pace for 25 points this year.
Maybe they'll follow Edler's trajectory, who hit 37 points in his third season.
But I'm not sure this team is coached in such a way to have 40+point defenceman. Where Crow could get 40+ out of Sopel and AV had bottom-pair Baumgartner on pace for 40 points, we've seen Edler go from 49 points to 20ish in 5 seasons.
I'm really curious what next season will bring - I'm fairly confident it won't see a resurgence in Edler, but Hutton's sophomore slump was actually pretty minor from an offense perspective, and he has been playing serious minutes.
Re: The Defence
With the exception of a few guys, like Karlsson and Burns, few defensemen generate many goals or primary assists. Even Karlsson, who is the top scoring dmen in recent history, has only hit the 20 goal mark twice, he puts up a ton of assists.ESQ wrote:I don't know what's happened to the D the past couple of years, perhaps its a Willie D thing, but throughout the Crawford/Vigneault era the Canucks always had a 40+ point defenceman, and a couple others in the high-30s. And its not like they were always superstars - Jovo for a couple years, then Sopel had 42, then Nolan freakin Baumgartner had 34 points in 70 games in 05/06, Bieksa, Edler, Ehrhoff, Hamhuis got up to 37 in 11/12.
But since Torts, the best defenceman season has been Garrison with 33 points. We were all giddy with Hutton's d-leading 25 points last season, and Stecher is on pace for 25 points this year.
Maybe they'll follow Edler's trajectory, who hit 37 points in his third season.
But I'm not sure this team is coached in such a way to have 40+point defenceman. Where Crow could get 40+ out of Sopel and AV had bottom-pair Baumgartner on pace for 40 points, we've seen Edler go from 49 points to 20ish in 5 seasons.
I'm really curious what next season will bring - I'm fairly confident it won't see a resurgence in Edler, but Hutton's sophomore slump was actually pretty minor from an offense perspective, and he has been playing serious minutes.
The seasons you mentioned were the years when the WCE was converting at incredible rates, and then when the Sedins took the reigns and our PP was terrifyingly good. In those years you often saw the boxscore read Goal: Naslund, Assist: Bertuzzi, Defenseman or Goal: D. Sedin, Assist: H. Sedin, Defenseman.
When the forwards aren't converting the defensemen aren't getting much either.
Also, Salo, Sopel, and Jovo, were all guys with a better than average ability at getting shots through to the net. Right now the only guy doing that is Stecher, and he hasn't been as good at it over the last month. Edler has almost never been good in that regard.
Re: The Defence
Need to bring up a point, at this point:ESQ wrote:I don't know what's happened to the D the past couple of years, perhaps its a Willie D thing, but throughout the Crawford/Vigneault era the Canucks always had a 40+ point defenceman, and a couple others in the high-30s. And its not like they were always superstars - Jovo for a couple years, then Sopel had 42, then Nolan freakin Baumgartner had 34 points in 70 games in 05/06, Bieksa, Edler, Ehrhoff, Hamhuis got up to 37 in 11/12.
But since Torts, the best defenceman season has been Garrison with 33 points. We were all giddy with Hutton's d-leading 25 points last season, and Stecher is on pace for 25 points this year.
Maybe they'll follow Edler's trajectory, who hit 37 points in his third season.
But I'm not sure this team is coached in such a way to have 40+point defenceman. Where Crow could get 40+ out of Sopel and AV had bottom-pair Baumgartner on pace for 40 points, we've seen Edler go from 49 points to 20ish in 5 seasons.
I'm really curious what next season will bring - I'm fairly confident it won't see a resurgence in Edler, but Hutton's sophomore slump was actually pretty minor from an offense perspective, and he has been playing serious minutes.
The entire defense is now taking way too much chastising and heat'
Everyone, including the media, is failing to notice that the REAL defensive problem on this team is the forwards.
Always trying to see; Oh, what D-pairing was on for that goal. They're having a bad game eh!
Not so fast. There's a lot more to it.
Maybe this is something a person that played the game would notice more.
I use to fight with Spidey like crazy but I think even he, being a ball hockey guy, would back me up on this.
The forwards are slow to get back but it's more than that.
They are totally and absolutely, not picking up THEIR assignments, when in the defensive zone. It's really bad and getting worse. It's like they have forgotten how. This has to be a fallibility in coaching the forwards.
They are almost all guilty of it now. Not picking up a guy and staying with him.
Sometimes it's so bad, they just look like pylons standing in the goalie's way?
Points from our defense will come easier and more frequently once the forwards start helping out a bit.
Don't know if this should have been here or in the Willie thread?
"evolution"
Re: The Defence
No biggie. Our points were both about the forwards, but from different angles.micky107 wrote:Sorry Mëds was posting at the same time...
Re: The Defence
Yup I concur, how I'd like to see this unfold which is not entirely out of reach..Tciso wrote:We are pretty full on Defence, so I don't even see a spot for an old dude like Campbell.
Unless we trade/lose 2 Dmen this summer, we are still sitting on 6 solid D-men, and Biega, and Juolevi, and Brisbois, and...
Tanev+ for Landeskog.
Sbisa to Vegas.
Edler - Stecher
Hutton - Tryamkin
Campbell - Gudbranson
Bulldog Beegs - Evan McEneny (gets promoted, with injuries in all likelihood he gets around 50-65 NHL games)
Juolevi develops another season in junior or SHL or Liiga whatever the highest he can join in finland/sweden, Per prob knows.
Brisebois I believe can join Utica? make them a stronger team next season.
Chatfield develops in Utica.
Pedan career AHLer, Subban man idk - with Stecher here Subs could be solid trade bait as well, or just continue helping Utica which hopefully can be a deeper team next season with Demko still there, and see if we can build up Subban's value even further. Jordan is locked up another year at 755K, then is a RFA after that, which should help his trade value....with a new coach here, Sub's like McEneny, both can be the top call-ups next season, JS for when a QB gets injured, McEneny for when a bigger fella gets injured, depth!
Powerplay #1 next year
Landeskog - Horvat - Granlund
Campbell - Stecher
#2
Sedins - Eriksson
Hutton - Tryamkin(with his low-key laser shot)
(swap in Boeser and Baertschi till you find uber chemistry up front on the powerplay)
Can the Canucks just win a Cup within the next 5 years.
- Blob Mckenzie
- MVP
- Posts: 20433
- Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
- Location: Oakalla
Re: The Defence
Yeah I'm sure Campbell would rush to Vancouver to play with a bottom five team. He played on garbage teams in Florida and Buffalo. I would think at this point he's more interested in winning.
“I don’t care what you and some other poster were talking about”
Re: The Defence
LoL yeah all that battling for nothing, just read Campbell loves Chicago and took a massive discount to join them as Florida was offering millions more.Blob Mckenzie wrote:Yeah I'm sure Campbell would rush to Vancouver to play with a bottom five team. He played on garbage teams in Florida and Buffalo. I would think at this point he's more interested in winning.
Time to flipflop back to forcing Juolevi to learn the hard way by joining Gudbranson next year on the bottom pairing.Brian Campbell put his money where his heart is this summer.
The veteran defenseman turned down an offer from the Panthers that would have paid him millions more to stay in Florida than the free-agent deal Campbell later signed with the Blackhawks — all in the name of family.
Any regrets?
“I’m smiling now,” Campbell said before the Hawks defeated the Panthers 2-1 in a shootout Tuesday night at the United Center. “I’m happy, you know? What’s the price tag on that?”
Campbell rejoined the Hawks after spending five seasons with the Panthers and agreed to general manager Stan Bowman's one-year offer of $2 million — reportedly $3 million less than the Panthers offered — to play in the town in which he and his family live.
"I'm still compensated very well," Campbell said. "Every day I wake up and I go to work but it's a nice feeling knowing that we're all happy as a family. Those things out-weigh (the money)."
Can the Canucks just win a Cup within the next 5 years.
- Blob Mckenzie
- MVP
- Posts: 20433
- Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
- Location: Oakalla
Re: The Defence
No thanks. Juolevi stagnated in junior this year. He's razor thin and he needs to dominate the OHL before he plays in the NHL.
“I don’t care what you and some other poster were talking about”
Re: The Defence
But that's the problem. He doesn't need to get stronger in junior, so why would he?Blob Mckenzie wrote:No thanks. Juolevi stagnated in junior this year. He's razor thin and he needs to dominate the OHL before he plays in the NHL.
He does need to play with men to advance.
If it's the right fit, preferably with options and hybrid ice, maybe a top men's league in Europe would be better.
"evolution"