2014/15 Line Up projections

[sagebrush]

Who do you think the Canucks will dress as their starting line (to start the season)?

Here's my stab at it:

Sedin Sedin Vrbata
Burrows Bonino Kassian
Higgins Matthias Vey
Dorsett Richardson Hansen

(Sestito, Jensen - on the roster, Horvat first call up)

Hamhuis Bieksa
Edler Tanev
Sbisa Stanton

(Weber on the roster, Corrado first call up)

Miller
Lack

See how many you get correct in the line up dressed, & in their positions.

PS - Competition could remove some combination of Higgins, Hansen, Richardson, & Sestito from the roster by the trade deadline.

[herb]

If Horvat is sent back down to junior he cannot be called up.

[sagebrush]

Forgot about that. A junior player can only be brought back to the NHL on emergency recall or after the junior season is finished.

It doesn't effect my projected opening roster though. Still batting 100%

[Tciso]

If Horvat is sent back down to junior he cannot be called up.

When I look at the AHL bylaws "Per AHL By-Laws, the age limit for eligibility to compete in the American Hockey League is 18 years or over, on or before September 15 of each season of competition." http://theahl.com/faq-p137653 , I would assume that at age 19, Horvat can play in the AHL. Wtf???

[SKYO]

If Horvat is sent back down to junior he cannot be called up.

When I look at the AHL bylaws "Per AHL By-Laws, the age limit for eligibility to compete in the American Hockey League is 18 years or over, on or before September 15 of each season of competition." http://theahl.com/faq-p137653 , I would assume that at age 19, Horvat can play in the AHL. Wtf???

That age limit (18) is for players not drafted from the CHL.

Otherwise it's "A player from the CHL has to either turn 20 by December 31st of the season, OR have completed 4 seasons of junior eligibility."

[Aaronp18]

When I look at the AHL bylaws "Per AHL By-Laws, the age limit for eligibility to compete in the American Hockey League is 18 years or over, on or before September 15 of each season of competition." http://theahl.com/faq-p137653 , I would assume that at age 19, Horvat can play in the AHL. Wtf???

There's a seperate agreement between the CHL and AHL/ECHL.

How Does The NHL-CHL Agreement Regarding Prospects Work?

THE AGREEMENT

There is an agreement in place between the NHL and the CHL (Canadian Hockey League, the overarching organization beneath which stand the OHL, the WHL, and the QMJHL) which exists primarily to protect the CHL. The rule is as follows:

Players drafted and playing for CHL teams are ineligible to play in the professional minor leagues (AHL, ECHL) until they are 20 years old (by December 31st of that year) or have completed four years in major juniors. A perfect example of this is Jared Knight, this year. Knight won't turn 20 until January 16, 2012. He's already completed two years in juniors, playing his third in London this season. If things continue along their course, and Knight does not make the NHL Bruins for the 2011-2012 season, he'll have to play that year in London as well, and will be eligible for AHL play in 2012-2013. Barring CHL involvement, players have to be 18 by September 15 to be eligible for the AHL at all.

That's the most basic version of this rule. Cunningham is exploiting another aspect of the agreement; the overage rule. While the main part of the agreement exists to keep talent in juniors (those leagues wouldn't be very competitive if, as soon as they were drafted, 18-year-olds could report to the minor league affiliates. The talent would weaken considerably), the overage rule is in place to encourage talent to siphon into the minors. CHL teams are allowed three players over the age limit (players who have already completed four years or who are 20 before 12/31 of that year). Cunningham is 20 years old as of September of this year, and he's completed four years of play for the Vancouver Giants; he was offered an AHL contract, but opted instead to play as one of the Giants' three overage players in a fifth year for his junior team.

European players further complicate The Agreement. If European players are drafted in the CHL draft before they're drafted by an NHL club, this rule applies to them. However, if they're drafted as a member of a European squad, and choose post-NHL-draft to play for a CHL team, they can, in fact, report to the NHL team's minor squads before the age limit kicks in. To explain this in detail, let's look at three European players who were drafted in 2006: Jiri Tlusty, Artem Anisimov, and Ivan Vishnevskiy. Based on the agreement, the age cutoff for the AHL for 18-year-old players drafted in 2006 would be 20 years old by December 30, 2008.

Artem Anisimov is the simplest of these three cases. He was drafted by the New York Rangers out of the Yaroslavl Locomotiv of the KHL, and was assigned to the Hartford Wolf Pack at the age of 19 for the 2007-2008 season. He turned 20 on May 24, 2008. No CHL involvement means no age restriction. Easy enough.

Ivan Vishnevskiy is the opposite case. He was the Rouyn-Noranda Huskies' (QMJHL) second pick in the CHL import draft in 2005, before being drafted by the Dallas Stars out of R-N in 2006. Since he was drafted from a CHL team, the same rules apply to Vishnevskiy as any other player drafted from a CHL team: 20 years old or 4 years of play. Vishnevskiy played for Rouyn-Noranda for three seasons, turned 20 during the 2007-2008 season, and reported to the Peoria Rivermen of the AHL to start the 2008-2009 season.

Jiri Tlusty exemplifies the strange hybrid case of a European player who played for the CHL but was drafted from Europe. He was drafted tenth overall in 2006 from HC Kladno of the Czech Extraliga, then signed with the Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds of the OHL. After one season, he split the season between the Marlies of the AHL and the NHL's Maple leaves as a 19-year-old. Since he was drafted by the Maple leaves from Europe, he was eligible for minor league play. David Krejci could have been in a similar situation; he was also drafted from HC Kladno in the same draft before playing for the Gatineau Olympiques of the QMJHL the following season; he, however, opted to spend two years in juniors before playing for the AHL P-Bruins at the age of 20.

These rules don't just apply to Europeans, as was the case with the Blackhawks' Jeremy Morin. He was drafted out of the USA's National Development program before signing with the Kitchener Rangers in 2009-2010. After some controversy, it appears he will report to Rockford of the AHL to begin the 2010-2011 season if he does not make the Blackhawks' NHL squad.

THE "OTHER" AGREEMENT

Another element in this convoluted equation is the NCAA, the United States' college organization (Canadian universities don't fall under this umbrella). College players can turn pro whenever they want; the caveat being as soon as they sign even a tryout agreement or play a single game for pay, they're immediately ineligible to play in the NCAA.

Development camps over the summer don't count, which is why Warsofsky and Tommy Cross were visible there but not at rookie camp this year. Both returned to college, Warsofsky to Boston University and Cross to Boston College. Others like Matt Bartkowski and Colborne gave up a few years of university to turn pro after their college seasons ended last year; both finished two years of school. Colborne gave up his NCAA eligibility the moment he signed with the P-Bruins last season; Bartkowski gave his up when he signed his contract over the summer. The moment pen touches paper, they can't go back to college to play hockey. This even extends to college players attending development camps/rookie tournaments before Labor Day (Traverse City, for example, used to be held in August) - they must pay their own way entirely, as part of this, which is why NCAA players often will opt out of summer NHL camps. The NCAA is incredibly rigid on their eligibility rules.

On the flip side of this, college players could theoretically leave school at age 19 and play in th AHL, as the CHL has no bearing on what college players do. As an example, Jonathan Sigalet left Bowling Green State University after one year to play for the P-Bruins at the age of 19 in 2005-2006. Chris Bourque did the same, albeit earlier; he left Boston University midseason of his freshman year in 2005 to play for the Portland Pirates. This year, Nick Leddy of the Chicago Blackhawks is also eligible to play in Rockford at the age of 19, after leaving the University of Minnesota.

[herb]

If Horvat is sent back down to junior he cannot be called up.

When I look at the AHL bylaws "Per AHL By-Laws, the age limit for eligibility to compete in the American Hockey League is 18 years or over, on or before September 15 of each season of competition." http://theahl.com/faq-p137653 , I would assume that at age 19, Horvat can play in the AHL. Wtf???

Oh man, the junior eligibility rules can be confusing.

Generally, players can play in the CHL from 16-20, but teams are only allowed three 20 year olds on their team. I think if you turn 20 before December 31st of the current season you are eligible to turn pro the next season or if you have completed four years in Junior you can turn pro the next season.

So even though Shinkaruk and Horvat were both drafted in the same year, Horvat isn't eligible to turn pro because he only has three years in Junior. Shinkaruk has played four seasons in the WHL, so even though he isn't 20 yet he can turn pro.

[Tciso]

When I look at the AHL bylaws "Per AHL By-Laws, the age limit for eligibility to compete in the American Hockey League is 18 years or over, on or before September 15 of each season of competition." http://theahl.com/faq-p137653 , I would assume that at age 19, Horvat can play in the AHL. Wtf???

There's a seperate agreement between the CHL and AHL/ECHL.

How Does The NHL-CHL Agreement Regarding Prospects Work?

THE AGREEMENT

There is an agreement in place between the NHL and the CHL (Canadian Hockey League, the overarching organization beneath which stand the OHL, the WHL, and the QMJHL) which exists primarily to protect the CHL. The rule is as follows:

Players drafted and playing for CHL teams are ineligible to play in the professional minor leagues (AHL, ECHL) until they are 20 years old (by December 31st of that year) or have completed four years in major juniors. A perfect example of this is Jared Knight, this year. Knight won't turn 20 until January 16, 2012. He's already completed two years in juniors, playing his third in London this season. If things continue along their course, and Knight does not make the NHL Bruins for the 2011-2012 season, he'll have to play that year in London as well, and will be eligible for AHL play in 2012-2013. Barring CHL involvement, players have to be 18 by September 15 to be eligible for the AHL at all.

That's the most basic version of this rule. Cunningham is exploiting another aspect of the agreement; the overage rule. While the main part of the agreement exists to keep talent in juniors (those leagues wouldn't be very competitive if, as soon as they were drafted, 18-year-olds could report to the minor league affiliates. The talent would weaken considerably), the overage rule is in place to encourage talent to siphon into the minors. CHL teams are allowed three players over the age limit (players who have already completed four years or who are 20 before 12/31 of that year). Cunningham is 20 years old as of September of this year, and he's completed four years of play for the Vancouver Giants; he was offered an AHL contract, but opted instead to play as one of the Giants' three overage players in a fifth year for his junior team.

European players further complicate The Agreement. If European players are drafted in the CHL draft before they're drafted by an NHL club, this rule applies to them. However, if they're drafted as a member of a European squad, and choose post-NHL-draft to play for a CHL team, they can, in fact, report to the NHL team's minor squads before the age limit kicks in. To explain this in detail, let's look at three European players who were drafted in 2006: Jiri Tlusty, Artem Anisimov, and Ivan Vishnevskiy. Based on the agreement, the age cutoff for the AHL for 18-year-old players drafted in 2006 would be 20 years old by December 30, 2008.

Artem Anisimov is the simplest of these three cases. He was drafted by the New York Rangers out of the Yaroslavl Locomotiv of the KHL, and was assigned to the Hartford Wolf Pack at the age of 19 for the 2007-2008 season. He turned 20 on May 24, 2008. No CHL involvement means no age restriction. Easy enough.

Ivan Vishnevskiy is the opposite case. He was the Rouyn-Noranda Huskies' (QMJHL) second pick in the CHL import draft in 2005, before being drafted by the Dallas Stars out of R-N in 2006. Since he was drafted from a CHL team, the same rules apply to Vishnevskiy as any other player drafted from a CHL team: 20 years old or 4 years of play. Vishnevskiy played for Rouyn-Noranda for three seasons, turned 20 during the 2007-2008 season, and reported to the Peoria Rivermen of the AHL to start the 2008-2009 season.

Jiri Tlusty exemplifies the strange hybrid case of a European player who played for the CHL but was drafted from Europe. He was drafted tenth overall in 2006 from HC Kladno of the Czech Extraliga, then signed with the Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds of the OHL. After one season, he split the season between the Marlies of the AHL and the NHL's Maple leaves as a 19-year-old. Since he was drafted by the Maple leaves from Europe, he was eligible for minor league play. David Krejci could have been in a similar situation; he was also drafted from HC Kladno in the same draft before playing for the Gatineau Olympiques of the QMJHL the following season; he, however, opted to spend two years in juniors before playing for the AHL P-Bruins at the age of 20.

These rules don't just apply to Europeans, as was the case with the Blackhawks' Jeremy Morin. He was drafted out of the USA's National Development program before signing with the Kitchener Rangers in 2009-2010. After some controversy, it appears he will report to Rockford of the AHL to begin the 2010-2011 season if he does not make the Blackhawks' NHL squad.

THE "OTHER" AGREEMENT

Another element in this convoluted equation is the NCAA, the United States' college organization (Canadian universities don't fall under this umbrella). College players can turn pro whenever they want; the caveat being as soon as they sign even a tryout agreement or play a single game for pay, they're immediately ineligible to play in the NCAA.

Development camps over the summer don't count, which is why Warsofsky and Tommy Cross were visible there but not at rookie camp this year. Both returned to college, Warsofsky to Boston University and Cross to Boston College. Others like Matt Bartkowski and Colborne gave up a few years of university to turn pro after their college seasons ended last year; both finished two years of school. Colborne gave up his NCAA eligibility the moment he signed with the P-Bruins last season; Bartkowski gave his up when he signed his contract over the summer. The moment pen touches paper, they can't go back to college to play hockey. This even extends to college players attending development camps/rookie tournaments before Labor Day (Traverse City, for example, used to be held in August) - they must pay their own way entirely, as part of this, which is why NCAA players often will opt out of summer NHL camps. The NCAA is incredibly rigid on their eligibility rules.

On the flip side of this, college players could theoretically leave school at age 19 and play in th AHL, as the CHL has no bearing on what college players do. As an example, Jonathan Sigalet left Bowling Green State University after one year to play for the P-Bruins at the age of 19 in 2005-2006. Chris Bourque did the same, albeit earlier; he left Boston University midseason of his freshman year in 2005 to play for the Portland Pirates. This year, Nick Leddy of the Chicago Blackhawks is also eligible to play in Rockford at the age of 19, after leaving the University of Minnesota.

I bow to your google. Thanks A

Doh! Stupid agreements.

[mathonwy]

Who do you think the Canucks will dress as their starting line (to start the season)?

Here's my stab at it:

Sedin Sedin Vrbata
Burrows Bonino Kassian
Higgins Matthias Vey
Dorsett Richardson Hansen

(Sestito, Jensen - on the roster, Horvat first call up)

Hamhuis Bieksa
Edler Tanev
Sbisa Stanton

(Weber on the roster, Corrado first call up)

Miller
Lack

See how many you get correct in the line up dressed, & in their positions.

PS - Competition could remove some combination of Higgins, Hansen, Richardson, & Sestito from the roster by the trade deadline.

Good line up.

I'd probably do the same but swap Richardson and Matthias to start the season to see how it goes.

I'm REALLY not happy with our blue line though as our heaviest player is Alex Edler at 215lbs. Our D is going to mulched by any decent forecheck.

[sagebrush]

We'll need the forwards to come back & support the D. Only 3 of the forwards are listed over 200lbs.

Gonna be interesting to see the schemes that Deschardins & company come up with. Tough to compete in the Pacific division.

[Island Nucklehead]

I'd probably do the same but swap Richardson and Matthias to start the season to see how it goes.

I'm REALLY not happy with our blue line though as our heaviest player is Alex Edler at 215lbs. Our D is going to mulched by any decent forecheck.

Yeah I think Richardson is a good 4th line C, move Matthias to his Wing, let Sestito warm the bench unless we think we'll be in a face-punching contest vs. Calgary.

I think the hope is that our defense don't wind up pinned in their own corners too often. It should be a mobile enough defence that moves the puck up-ice quickly and transitions well.

Being big didn't help Alberts from having his eggs scrambled.


Sedin-Sedin-Vrbata
Burrows-Bonino-Kassian
Hansen-Vey-Higgins
Matthias-Richardson-Dorsett
Sestito

Edler-Tanev
Hamhuis-Bieksa
Stanton-Sbisa
Weber

Unless Horvat really impresses, he's back to junior for his final year. Can see Weber rotating with Stanton/Sbisa due to his RHS, depending on the game/scenario, Canucks may dress 7 D-men. Jensen, Shinkaruk and Gaunce start on the farm.

[Rumsfeld]

If Horvat can't make this year's shitty squad then he's not the player Gillis and co sold him as.

I think they really want to get him some NHL games this season so I expect he'll start the season with the big club.

[Island Nucklehead]

If Horvat can't make this year's shitty squad then he's not the player Gillis and co sold him as.

I think they really want to get him some NHL games this season so I expect he'll start the season with the big club.

I'd tend to agree, and I'm fairly sure he'll get his 9 game window.

But remember Horvat isn't considered to be an elite offensive talent, so I highly doubt he'll crack the top-6, and the defensive side of the game is pretty tough when you're 19. He's certainly got the size to match up against NHL players, but I'm a bit leary of expecting too much too soon.

IMO another year in junior, honing the offensive toolbox, wouldn't be the worst thing for the kid. This team is desperate for top-6 talent, and fairly well supplied with tweeners and bottom-6 guys.

Hopefully he impresses at camp and sticks, that only means good things for us moving forward.

[SKYO]

The all veteran lineup.

Sedins - Vrbata
Higgins - Bonino - Burrows
Matthias - Vey - Kassian
Dorsett - Richardson - Hansen
Tito

Edler - Tanev
Hamhuis - Bieksa
Stanton - Sbisa
Weber

(Dorsett can play any forward position if he has to, same with Burrows r/lw)

The I'm hoping lineup, well mostly crossing fingers Jensen has a strong preseason to make the lineup, either way even if he is sent to Utica (which is likely due to having a lot of one-way contracts), I can see him being called up asap, as he's a scorer/playmaker and we will need as much as that as we can.

Sedins - Vrbata
Burrows - Bonino - Jensen
Higgins - Vey - Kassian
Matthias - Richardson - Dorsett
Tito

Same defense

The unlikely but awesome if it happens lineup, just adding Jensen and Horvat.

Sedins - Vrbata
Burrows - Bonino - Jensen
Vey - Horvat - Kassian
Matthias - Richardson - Higgins
Tito

Same D.

[herb]

Hopefully he impresses at camp and sticks, that only means good things for us moving forward.

Absolument